2WD vs. AWD

[SimLex]

I finally test drove the Rogue today. I test drove a loaded SL with AWD and then late drove an SL with 2WD. The two salesman told me that there was virtually no difference in how they drive/ride, but I did want to see for myself.

I am female and not the most knowledgeable car person around, but to me, the drive/ride of the 2WD wasn't as nice as the AWD. Was it my imagination? That's basically what the salesman told me when I said it didn't seem as nice. He also said the gas mileage would be a little better on the 2WD.

Any info you can share would be great. Thanks!

[kerrton]

Gas mileage will definately be better with the 2WD, because the vehicle is much lighter and only has power to the front axle. I don't think you should notice any difference in the ride quality under normal driving conditions. If you're on gravel, snow and ice you would notice a difference. Also, the FWS is a few thousand cheaper than the AWD.

I bought the FWD/2WD because I don't believe in AWD, unless you have a very specific purpose that requires AWD such as regular driving in adverse snow/ice conditions. FWD is better for the environment in terms of fuel efficiency and total materials required to construct the vehicle.

[wftright]

I've heard and read that the AWD ride is nicer. Even the Nissan website explains how the vehicle is designed to use changing power to the different wheels to make the ride feel better and to be in better control. I'm sure that different people with different driving styles will notice the difference to differing degrees. If you noticed a difference, I wouldn't ascribe that difference to your imagination. You will likely be living with that difference for as long as you own your car.

Obviously, the 2WD will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, and cheaper to drive. On the other hand, AWD will make everyday driving more pleasant and may someday save your life in a bad situation. Only you can make the right decision about how you value each of these factors and what the optimum choice would be.

How many miles do you drive each year? Are they city miles or highway miles? What's the longest period of time that you spend in the car on any given trip? Did you test drive on the interstate with plenty of steady driving at highway speed or did you test drive in a place with plenty of stops and starts? Did your test drive simulate your regular driving habits accurately?

If you drive 10,000 miles a year and get 25 mpg, you'll use 400 gallons of gasoline every year. If you drive the same 10,000 miles and get 26 mpg, your fuel useage drops to about 385 gallons every year. That 1 mpg difference is what you lose by getting AWD. Personally, I will gladly buy an extra 15 gallons of gasoline every year in order to have AWD in case I'm in a situation where I need AWD. If I found the ride better anyway, then the better ride only makes AWD a better choice. On the other hand, if you drive more miles or are on a budget that is tight enough for 15 gallons to matter, then you might want to go the other way.

As I understand the Nissan AWD promotional writings, the AWD switches to 2WD at steady speeds on clean, dry roads. Once you have reached highway speeds and are cruising, there should be almost no difference between the ride of AWD and 2WD. If your typical trip involves getting on the interstate, reaching a steady speed, and staying there for longer periods of time, you may not notice the better ride of AWD often enough to justify spending the extra money to buy AWD. On the other hand, if you often driving for long periods of time at varying speeds on curving roads in a part of the country that gets a good bit of rain, you might be much happier having the AWD to give you that extra stability and control in those situations. If you face those situations, the difference in mileage might be even greater, but if you spend enough time in the car, you may want to maximize how nice the ride is.

I've faced this same question as I've looked for a vehicle to replace my small pickup truck. I would like to have better mileage and pay less for a vehicle, but I'd also like to know that I can go where I want when the situation arises. Occasionally, I like to go to some national parks to hike, and some of my favorite trail heads are located up five or ten miles of rough rock and dirt road. A 2WD should get there, but a 4WD will certainly get there. I don't get that many opportunities to visit these parks, so having to compromise on where I go when I'm there is unacceptable. I may someday get a job in a location that has snow and ice, and I don't want to have to buy a new vehicle just because I've moved. To me, the utility of AWD or 4WD is highly valuable. If the absolute perfect deal arose on a 2WD vehicle, I'd get that vehicle. Otherwise, I'm staying with 4WD or AWD.

The flip side of my choice is that I've reached a point in life where I can afford two vehicles. My 17 mpg 4WD pickup truck is currently being driven about 1200 miles a year. My usual running around vehicle is an old Saturn SC1. The rated mileage of my Saturn is something like 26 and 32, but I've often gotten 38 to 40 mpg on the highway. My typical mileage for typical driving is in the high 20's to low 30's. If I replace the truck, I'll likely drive the replacement vehicle more because it will be more comfortable and more reliable, but I'm still using an economy car for most of my driving. If you don't have that option, you have to look at the mileage issue differently.

Bill

[SimLex]

Thank you both for your replies! You've given me some things to consider in helping me make my decision, which I appreciate!

[ahhbeebee]

Hope this isn't too late to chime in.

I have one major beef with these new computer controlled AWD systems. They're actually a bit slow to respond. The reason the dealer told you there isn't much difference in every day driving is because in every day driving, the AWD system isn't even used. It typically only kicks in when the computer senses loss of traction, or if you are cornering very quickly etc.

That said, AWD is a little subtle the first few times you are driving a vehicle. My previous car was a Subaru with full-time AWD, and certainly there was no slipping when starting one gravel/ice at a dead stop, I could corner much better, but I wouldn't rate my 'safety' as being improved with the AWD.

If you are driving off paved roads, if you are planning on towing anything then you're better off with the AWD. If you think it will improve winter driving (snow or rain), then you are better off buying a good set of snow tires since those will improve traction while you are moving much better than AWD. And what previous postings said about fuel economy too!

Good luck!Sampson

[munkymonkjr]

If you have 2 cars equipped exactly the same and the only difference is FWD vs AWD, the major differences (already pointed out in this thread are):-- AWD gives you more control in slippery conditions (but car already comes w/ ABS, traction control, ESP, etc)-- FWD gives you slightly better fuel econ (22/27 vs 21/26)-- AWD is heavier (thus feels different to drive...maybe its what you are feeling)-- AWD is Pricier (looking at about $2000 extra).

So that said, depending on where you live you may or may not need AWD. I live in Chicago and I got FWD because I couldn't justify paying $2000 + extra fuel costs for a feature I'd only use 2 or 3 times a year (that is how often there is a major snow storm hits when driving is horrible).

So anyway, like I said above what you are probably feeling is the extra weight of the car, as in evne a few extra 100 can make a huge difference. Makes you feel like the car is more solid and you can plow through stuff easier (yet somehow takes away from its sporty nature...something rogue is good for).

But what hasn't been mentioned yet (which you should consider) is that AWD and FWD have different equipment packages. Note for example that to get the intelligent key is only available on AWD. I am sure other features fall victim to this too.

[philipa_240sx]

Hope this isn't too late to chime in.

I have one major beef with these new computer controlled AWD systems. They're actually a bit slow to respond. The reason the dealer told you there isn't much difference in every day driving is because in every day driving, the AWD system isn't even used. It typically only kicks in when the computer senses loss of traction, or if you are cornering very quickly etc.

The AWD system in the Rogue is quite sophisticated. It uses speed sensors from all 4 wheels, steering wheel angle sensor, a G sensor, and a multi -plate electronically controlled clutch that can infinitely vary the torque split from 50/50 to FWD. In some ways, it's similar (but not identical) in concept to the AWD system used in high end Subarus and Mitsubishi's. In addition, the AWD system automatically starts in 50/50 mode from a standing stop then reverts to FWD if need be. It can also respond to cornering and acceleration loads... even on dry pavement. We can no doubt thank Nissan and years of AWD development with the Skyline GT-R for the system used in the Rogue.

Edit: The G sensor is shared with the VDC system and is a 3 axis sensor with yaw (turning) rate, lateral (sideways), and deceleration forces.

[SimLex]

I so appreciate all of your replies and info. Still negotiating with three dealerships right now.

I live in FL, so definitely don't need AWD for snow/ice. It seems like it would be good for slick roads and I do travel to the mountains one or two times a year.

Ahhh ...decisions, decisions! I had actually pretty much decided to go with FWD because of the cost savings alone. But, a dealership about 30 min. from me that I contacted just a on a whim, offered me what seems to be a pretty good deal on a fully loaded SL with AWD. It's tempting, if the numbers work out for me on monthly payments.

Yes, like someone mentioned, the AWD comes with some extra bells and whistles like intelli key, compass on mirror, home link, etc. The FWD does not have those options, as far as I know.

[BrianV]

What did you end up doing? To chime in on a few things:

philipa is right - the system is pretty nice; I won't say sophisticated as there are far superior systems for offroading, but the system is great for its intended purpose. I like that it doesn't rely on sensors to detect slip. Instead, it is programmed to always send power back from a stop and always send power back during cornering. Thus, you have the traction there preventing any slip. If it gets ugly and you still have slip (rare), then wheel sensors will send more power wherever and straighten it out.

This is FAR better than most entry level systems like on the CR-V where it waits for slip and then sends power back. Those systems feel painfully obvious and only barely rectify the situation.

All that said, I'd imagine on dry pavement, the FWD would drive nicer. FWD cars are often smoother than RWD cars just because of the lack of a driveshaft. I think this is mitigated on trucks some since there's more clearance for the driveshaft, but none the less, there's more drivetrain stuff moving/vibrating in the AWD version so I'd imagine if detectable, the FWD would feel smoother/nicer.

However, if you did any bad weather and/or spirited driving during your test drive, the grip and predictability of the AWD system would definitely win you over. Like another posted said, to me it's worth getting AWD (even here where it doesn't snow). 1mpg is not much and it's probably less than that on the highway where it's not used. The simple control in the rain and knowing it's there is worth it for me.

[philipa_240sx]

IMHO, AWD is nice but it's over-hyped and used far too much as a selling feature. The ultimate grip of the vehicle is largely determined by the tires and not how many wheels are getting power. This is especially noticeable when you try to corner or stop... AWD doesn't do a thing for you these situations.

I live in a snowy climate (Southern Ontario, Canada) and have driven AWD/4WD, RWD, and FWD vehicles. I would gladly take a smaller, lighter FWD vehicle with 4 snow tires versus anything else. I drive according to the conditions and if it gets bad enough that FWD and snow tires can't keep me on the road, then I don't drive. The reduced complexity, lower weight, and better fuel economy of FWD are a bonus.

[kerrton]

Exactly Phillipa, well said!!! Just because you have a sense of "feeling" more safe and secure doesn't mean it's true! Most people believe AWD provides this security, and as a result may get into trouble because of it, and over-drive for road conditions.

[SimLex]

On the 17th, I did end up getting the SL AWD. I'm really happy so far!!

I have gained so much insight and knowledge from this forum. Everyone is so willing to share and be helpful. I felt like I was armed with a lot of knowledge to help me make an informed decision.

[BrianV]

On the 17th, I did end up getting the SL AWD. I'm really happy so far!!

I have gained so much insight and knowledge from this forum. Everyone is so willing to share and be helpful. I felt like I was armed with a lot of knowledge to help me make an informed decision.

Glad to hear. As the previous posters mentioned, AWD doesn't make you stop or corner better at speed, but it is nice and makes getting off the line and cornering at slow speeds much nicer.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that on this car in particular, the premium package on the AWD adds many features not available on the FWD; HID, heated seats, and I think there were some others. That's a significant reason why I'd only consider AWD. However, even without it, I'd still spring for it. We have AWD now and we do see light mud, some cold rain from time to time and occasional snow/ice (1 day per year or so). I like being able to get out of the gate quick in the rain or make a 90 degree turn under power and being able to get to speed quickly.

My G35 is the exact opposite, you need to gingerly finesse it in the rain.

[Palmateer]

The weight difference is less than 200 pounds, and some of that is because of the extra equipment of the AWD Rogue that is omitted from the FWD version.

Having driven many sporty RWD cars myself, I prefer the AWD version for avoiding loading the front tires with start-off torque, and for the yaw control benefits of distributing the torque during cornering maneuvers.

Gas mileage will definately be better with the 2WD, because the vehicle is much lighter...

[eric_c]

While this may be true for stopping (and to a lesser degree turning), in terms of getting going and keep moving forward in snow there is little comparison between an AWD or 4x4 and a FWD, even with snow tires. Granted, if we are talking about a FWD car with snow tires vs. an AWD without, the difference is mitigated but if both have snow's on its no contest.

I grew up on FWD cars (a Protoge, a Contour, a couple Maxima's) then migrated to a RWD car (Z). Drove all of them thru Ottawa winters with snow tires on. For a number of reasons, we decided to get a 3rd vehicle (mainly to haul the dogs around but also a winter driver) and settled on a used 96 Pathfinder.

Even with the cheapest set of snow tires I could find, the first winter with the Pathfinder was a revelation. Instead of sitting at the green light spinning my tires in the first few gears, I just went. Instead of waiting for a massive gap in traffic before pulling out of a parking lot (not knowing if I was actually going to move forward when I hit the gas), I just waited for a regular opening and went. And while everyone is parking in the street because the parking lot at work isn't plowed, I'd just put it in 4Hi and drive right in. Heck, I've pulled into my laneway at home after a big storm, snow was knee deep, Pathfinder drove the 80 feet to the house like it was nothing. We actually made a truck snow angel when we opened the doors, the snow was so deep. No 2WD vehicle is going to do that without great difficulty.

Granted, all this traction during acceleration leads some SUV owners to have be over-confident about the abilities of their vehicle and think this extends to braking, but there is no denying the advantage of AWD vs. 2WD in bad conditions.

A few years ago we traded our last Maxima in for a Subaru STi and this basically convinced me that I am never going back to 2WD vehicles. The AWD system allows me to enjoy the vehicle in just about any weather condition (rain or shine), and I can drive it on even the worse snow days (with snow tires, of course) whereas the Z stays parked most of the winter. The only limitation being that the car is somewhat low to the ground.

There is also a slight advantage to AWD when cornering and applying power in slippery conditions. 2WD cars are more prone to having one end break loose as all the power is routed to only two tires. This is less dangerous in FWD cars as they just understeer, whereas RWD tend to snap-oversteer (as happened to me in my Z one winter). This extends to dry conditions when driving agressively; I can apply full power earlier and longer in the STi in a sharp corner, whereas the Z requires more delicate use of the throttle.

I guess its up to the individual to decide weather the added winter traction is worth the fuel penalty. For my wife and I, especially after the winter we just had here in Ottawa, AWD is a must.

One thing nobody mentioned about FWD vs AWD is torque steer. My last Maxima was routing 255 HP thru the front wheels and full-throttle passing was a white-knuckled affair.

IMHO, AWD is nice but it's over-hyped and used far too much as a selling feature. The ultimate grip of the vehicle is largely determined by the tires and not how many wheels are getting power. This is especially noticeable when you try to corner or stop... AWD doesn't do a thing for you these situations.

[philipa_240sx]

The fuel economy difference is due to 2 factors:

1 - curb weight differences2 - friction losses (heat), and accelerating/decelerating the additional rotational mass in the transfer case, AWD coupling, and rear diff.

I don't dispute the effects of AWD on driving dynamics and traction. It does have tangible benefits. But if we believe MotorTrend's test data, the FWD Rogue is about 0.5sec faster 0-60mph than the AWD model on dry pavement. The reduced curb weight also helps handling in terms of quick transitions... moment of inertia and all that physics stuff.