2jz vs ls1

[bonestocksr20]

what is a better all around swap? i am on a budget and am looking for the best bang for my buck. i have an sr now but i want to do something different. chime in and let me have your .02

[nmssr08]

I just got my LS1 swap done. I can say one word......."amazing". I was thinking of going with 2J but I decided to go with LS1.......I think I made a right choice.

They are both great swap. But I think LS1 has little better advantage over 2J swap. 2J is heavy and finding the 6 speed transmission is very hard and expensive. Also, you should buy a single turbo to reduce the turbo manifold piping issue. LS1 is pretty easy to find with T-56 6speed transmission and the engine is little lighter than the KA engine.

I think LS1 is the best bang for your buck. I spent about $9k total on my swap. But you can cut the cost lower if you can do the swap yourself. I was told to drop $10K for 2J swap from a shop in California.......and it came with ebay brand single turbo and manifold.

If you like the turbo, 2J is the engine to go with...... if you like N/A with lots of torque, than LS1...... but again, you can turbo the LS1 too......if you are crazy enough....haha. good luck with your build man.

[Ls1pwr]

the ls1 will be cheaper and more reliable then the 2jz in stock form. the 2jz is a heavy mofo so if your doing a drift or drag car then the weight doesnt make as much of a difference. If your going to do some road racing, or any other form of grip racing then the ls1 is a better choice. ps there are ppl spraying stock bottom end ls1's with 150,000+ miles and still daily driving them.

[540sx]

I thought about this exact question and ended up with neither.I am putting in a 327 sbc, turbocharged. thought is would be cheaper.

I would go with the ls1 because the stock motor has more power to begin with and you can find turbo kits pretty cheap for the ls1.

I have a chinese gt-45 turbo that my friend got for a couple hundredand then I had it rebuilt and replaced all the cheap parts with real garrett.

the ls1 has an aluminum block , there are tons of parts that are relatively cheap. I have heard of putting ls6 heads on the ls1 and things like that that are not too expensive and people get some good performance.

Also what do you want to do with the motor?ls1 is lighter and no turbo lag. 2jz is already turbo so if you want turbo it already has correct compression and cams. can just upgrade turbo, injectors, ecu.etc. unless you go crazy with it then you don't need to open the motor. It is apparently very strong.

[NoClassic]

If you are looking to do a v8 swap on a budget look into the 4.8, 5.3, or 6.0 GM truck motors. They have nearly all the qualities of the more expensive LS1/LS2 configurations at a greatly discounted price. I just picked up a complete pullout with everything for around 1500 to my door. Ill be able to make back a couple hundred by selling things I wont be using as well.

This will be going into my 89 coupe.

[RCA]

I will go with the road less traveled by...Though I agree with the LS1 for a bang for your buck swap, I found some comments that are either not backed-up or are people's opinion trying to be passed for as factsSo I call....

They are both great swap. But I think LS1 has little better advantage over 2J swap. 2J is heavy and finding the 6 speed transmission is very hard and expensive. Also, you should buy a single turbo to reduce the turbo manifold piping issue. LS1 is pretty easy to find with T-56 6speed transmission and the engine is little lighter than the KA engine.

2J is heavier then LS1When swapping a 2JZ into a S chassis you don't use a 6speed V160.You use a common and easy to find R154Also there isn't a factory turbo manifold "issue"

I spent about $9k total on my swap. But you can cut the cost lower if you can do the swap yourself. I was told to drop $10K for 2J swap from a shop in California.......and it came with ebay brand single turbo and manifold.

You spent $9k on an LS1 swap! OMG ROFL

2JZ swap can run from 7k-9kSome companys sell a turn key swap for $8.5k

If you like the turbo, 2J is the engine to go with...... if you like N/A with lots of torque, than LS1...... but again, you can turbo the LS1 too......if you are crazy enough....haha. good luck with your build man.

The 2JZ in JDM stock form makes more TQ then HP.A stock JDM 2JZ engine installed into the S chassis produces 330whp & 340wlbs-tqWith $200 you can install a set of USDM cams and you are looking at 360whp and 355wlbs-tq

the ls1 will be cheaper and more reliable then the 2jz in stock form. the 2jz is a heavy mofo so if your doing a drift or drag car then the weight doesnt make as much of a difference. If your going to do some road racing, or any other form of grip racing then the ls1 is a better choice. ps there are ppl spraying stock bottom end ls1's with 150,000+ miles and still daily driving them.

LS1 should be cheaperMore reliable? Really?PROVE IT!All Aluminum or turbo cast iron?There are people what have stock block 800whp DDs Supras with 100,000+ miles that run pump gas.When it comes to reliability I think the 2JZGTE has the advantage.2JZs were built to higher standards. Their internals were built to handle 250% more power then what they make in stock forum.

Can an LS1 make 875hp with out needing to replace internal engine components?

[nmssr08]

I will go with the road less traveled by...Though I agree with the LS1 for a bang for your buck swap, I found some comments that are either not backed-up or are people's opinion trying to be passed for as factsSo I call....

2J is heavier then LS1When swapping a 2JZ into a S chassis you don't use a 6speed V160.You use a common and easy to find R154Also there isn't a factory turbo manifold "issue"

You spent $9k on an LS1 swap! OMG ROFL

2JZ swap can run from 7k-9kSome companys sell a turn key swap for $8.5k

The 2JZ in JDM stock form makes more TQ then HP.A stock JDM 2JZ engine installed into the S chassis produces 330whp & 340wlbs-tqWith $200 you can install a set of USDM cams and you are looking at 360whp and 355wlbs-tq

LS1 should be cheaperMore reliable? Really?PROVE IT!All Aluminum or turbo cast iron?There are people what have stock block 800whp DDs Supras with 100,000+ miles that run pump gas.When it comes to reliability I think the 2JZGTE has the advantage.2JZs were built to higher standards. Their internals were built to handle 250% more power then what they make in stock forum.

Can an LS1 make 875hp with out needing to replace internal engine components?

Well, getting 2J swap done for $8.5K is a good deal. I got a quote from 4 different shops in California and they all quoted me $10K or very close to it. I didn't want to do a crappy swap job done on my car so I just took my car to a reputable shop in California for 2J swap quote. They all said having R154 transmission is good but it's only 5 speed. I just thought having 6speed is better and is equivalent to T-56 6 speed which he is comparing it to.

So far, every shop recommended me to go with Single turbo due to couple reasons. 1: they will have to fabricate more piping for turbos, 2: single turbo is cleaner and for reliability issue(don't want to cut corners). If I did a 2J swap, I rather have my twin turbos removed and changed to a single turbo since the engine is out. Also I don't have to worry about changing it out in the near future.

How much can you get a entire turn key swap done on LS1? In SoCal, there isn't much shops who do LS1 swaps. Many shops said they will do the swap but they didn't sound too comfortable doing the swap. So I backed off. After many visit to the search engine, I finally found a reputable guy who does swaps and makes his own swap kit(Frankie from pxracing.com). He did a super clean job and his kit is much much better than Hinson kit, he is also very reputable with good feedback from people all over silviaV8.com forums. He also painted my engine bay and hooked up my A/C with custom A/C lines. Is this still OMG ROFL expensive to you?

I think the engine reliability issue all applies to both engines. it all depends on what the previous owner did to the engine and how you drive the car....

[Ls1pwr]

haha show me this 800rwhp supra that runs pump gas with 100,000+ miles i'll be the one to say your bs'ing. on pump gas no way in hell, even if he did this on race gas that things a ticking time bomb. ls1's are more reliable its a fact, #1 they are naturally aspirated, which has proven over and over again to be more reliable then forced induction. #2 there are plenty of 200,000+ mile ls1's running very strong. theres a cam only ls1 with 150,000 miles putting down 420rwhp on ls1tech.com he still beats on the car daily. if you would like to check my "FACTS" please go on ls1tech.com and do a simple search. the 2jz is a good engine but its very peaky and has a short powerband. i agree that the ls1 cant make 875 rwhp with stock internals because its a high compression v8 designed to be n/a ur comparing apples to oranges. if u put a forged bottom end in the ls1 then ur 2jz would get shat on.

[RCA]

Well, getting 2J swap done for $8.5K is a good deal. I got a quote from 4 different shops in California and they all quoted me $10K or very close to it. I didn't want to do a crappy swap job done on my car so I just took my car to a reputable shop in California for 2J swap quote.

Well the 8.5K turn key swap was quoted from the company that created the first kit to swap a JZ into an S13/14. So the $8.5k includes the price for there rediculous expensive swap kit $1.5kRuckus racing sells there's for $400So just because 8.5K is affordable doesn't make it a crappy swap. I think they were seriously trying to nickel and dime you.

They all said having R154 transmission is good but it's only 5 speed. I just thought having 6speed is better and is equivalent to T-56 6 speed which he is comparing it to.

ROFLMAO!What is a great reason not to use the 5 speed.EX) The sky is green, because blue is whatever.

You should mate BMW's 7 speed to your LS1 because the T-56 is just a 6 speed.

How much research did you do for the 2jz swap? Haveing the V160 6speed in your 240 would render 1st gear useless. Top speed 5mph with that final drive and V160 first gear. Good luck towing that boat in your 240. The R154 is more then up to the challenge. The R154 gives your 240 a top speed of 185ish mph.Not enough for you?

I just thought having 6speed is better and is equivalent to T-56 6 speed which he is comparing it to.

Probably is a better comparison. Idk much about the T-56s but the Supra community is drag racing there stock V160s @1000+ whp and DDing them with out a problem. This increadable strenth is the reason for the $3,000 price tag.

The v160s are notoriously strong. If you call BS then search: Getrag V160 transmissions on any supra forum or on google.

So far, every shop recommended me to go with Single turbo due to couple reasons. 1: they will have to fabricate more piping for turbos

So they wanted you to go single because this way they will have to fabricate more piping? OrSo they wanted you to go single because this way they will have to fabricate less piping?

Also since when does fabricating piping ($400 MAX) justify spending $2000+ on a single turbo conversion?

2: single turbo is cleaner and for reliability issue(don't want to cut corners). If I did a 2J swap, I rather have my twin turbos removed and changed to a single turbo since the engine is out. Also I don't have to worry about changing it out in the near future.

Well yea a single is cleaner

Well take off the dump pipe from the factory turbo and check for shaft play. If there is then buy a new set for $200 or buy a new single for $900+

Changing it in the future? BPU Supras can make 500hp on stock turbos...I dout you plan on making more then 500hp

How much can you get a entire turn key swap done on LS1? In SoCal, there isn't much shops who do LS1 swaps. Many shops said they will do the swap but they didn't sound too comfortable doing the swap. So I backed off. After many visit to the search engine, I finally found a reputable guy who does swaps and makes his own swap kit(Frankie from pxracing.com). He did a super clean job and his kit is much much better than Hinson kit, he is also very reputable with good feedback from people all over silviaV8.com forums. He also painted my engine bay and hooked up my A/C with custom A/C lines. Is this still OMG ROFL expensive to you?

IDK what an LS1 swap costs in So-Cal but you still payed a "OMG ROFL expensive" amount for one of the cheaper 240sx swaps.

Custom AC lines aren't tought to do in the first place. But I have seen LS1 swaps for $5k-$6k. So I guess you payed $4K for custom AC lines...

I think you are the only person I know that got AC on a motorswap. Awesome.Tech2 offers JZ S13/14 AC kit for $750

I think the engine reliability issue all applies to both engines. it all depends on what the previous owner did to the engine and how you drive the car....

Agreed

Post pics of your ACed LS1 240sx. I want to see an engine bay picture

---------------------------------------------------------

haha show me this 800rwhp supra that runs pump gas with 100,000+ miles i'll be the one to say your bs'ing. on pump gas no way in hell, even if he did this on race gas that things a ticking time bomb.

Is it really nessasary for me to scan the article and post it? I can't be 100% I have it. But if I find it would you like me to post it?

ls1's are more reliable its a fact, #1 they are naturally aspirated, which has proven over and over again to be more reliable then forced induction.

Was the LS1 over engineered to handle 250% more power then its stock form?

The 2JZ was purposley over engineered, because Toyota and Yamaha wanted much higher outputs out of there engine, but in Japan there is a gentalmens agreement that places a max HP rating on their cars.

Its like haveing a full blown engine capable of running 1500whp and the engine never sees anything past 375hp.So that engine won't be as reliable as an LS1 just because its turbo?

Sorry try again bro.

#2 there are plenty of 200,000+ mile ls1's running very strong. theres a cam only ls1 with 150,000 miles putting down 420rwhp on ls1tech.com he still beats on the car daily. if you would like to check my "FACTS" please go on ls1tech.com and do a simple search.

I don't dout that for a minute. Miles on an engine mean nothing to me as long it is properly maintained. But I am dout full of the "cam only LS1" making 420whp. With such an aggressive cam, wouldn't he need to replace other valvetrain companants?

the 2jz is a good engine but its very peaky and has a short powerband.

Well the 2JZ is known for its smooth torque curve. And when modifided for the 600whp mark the powerband the 2JZ has a teriffic power band and lots of useable power.

Its only when it is modified for extreme power 1000+whp does the power band become peaky and short.

i agree that the ls1 cant make 875 rwhp with stock internals because its a high compression v8 designed to be n/a ur comparing apples to oranges. if u put a forged bottom end in the ls1 then ur 2jz would get shat on.

The high compression nature of the LS1 would make its reliablity that much more questionable.Ferarri V-8s are high compressed too, but how many have 100000+ miles?

Speaking of apples to oranges...5.7 > 3.0V-8 > I-6No replacement for displacement.

But then again how much power can you possibly put down on a track? I have seen 1200whp (boost) and 300 shot running low 8's.

So my question is how much power can you possibly put on the ground using the pro-stock rules?

I hope this turns out to be a good discussion thread.
Modified by rcabrita at 7:00 PM 6/26/2008

[silvia_ks_69]

2jz FTW!

[mantis]

This has been a nice discussion so far, and rcarbita seems to know what he is talking about. However, there is no way yo are going to find LS1 swaps for $5-6000 anywhere. Good luck doing it yourself for that. If you get an LS1 with T56 with 50,000 miles for $3500, you are getting a good price. Then figure all the parts needed to do the swap, and you are probably at at least $5000 right there. Unless the labor is for free on a 3 wk swap, I don't think you are going to make that price. $10,000 is the cheapest LS1 swap I have seen offered thus far.

[WDRacing]

The 2JZ is in the top 10 best motors ever built...arguing that only makes you look stupid.

Now lets talk about comparisons and goals that don't involve bench racing and or any number over 600WHP. I unlike many guys have a passion for all cars and any good motor. So I'm not blinded by any stupid brand loyalty.

Both the 2J and the LS are awesome motors for a swap. But the end goal is what really matters. You can't just throw up some random which is better thread and expect to have any type of rational conversation.

The only way to compare anything is to set bench marks and see what it takes to get each motor to that point. Lets not also forget that there are quite a few fabricators on these boards...myself included. So I can easily flip a set of headers, weld up some cross piping and install a T70 for about $1400. Since the LSx can be found for about that much less then the 2J you're now comparing a turbo LSx and a 2J...which is the only way to compare two separate motors. Comparing one FI motor to one NA motor is a horrible way to determine anything.

So how about less trash talking and more realistic comparisons. If the goal is 600whp what are the objectives? Cheaper? Broader overall "Q" curve? What?

Throwing out random numbers sucks

WD

[nmssr08]

The 2JZ is in the top 10 best motors ever built...arguing that only makes you look stupid.

Now lets talk about comparisons and goals that don't involve bench racing and or any number over 600WHP. I unlike many guys have a passion for all cars and any good motor. So I'm not blinded by any stupid brand loyalty.

Both the 2J and the LS are awesome motors for a swap. But the end goal is what really matters. You can't just throw up some random which is better thread and expect to have any type of rational conversation.

The only way to compare anything is to set bench marks and see what it takes to get each motor to that point. Lets not also forget that there are quite a few fabricators on these boards...myself included. So I can easily flip a set of headers, weld up some cross piping and install a T70 for about $1400. Since the LSx can be found for about that much less then the 2J you're now comparing a turbo LSx and a 2J...which is the only way to compare two separate motors. Comparing one FI motor to one NA motor is a horrible way to determine anything.

So how about less trash talking and more realistic comparisons. If the goal is 600whp what are the objectives? Cheaper? Broader overall "Q" curve? What?

Throwing out random numbers sucks

WD

Nice wrap up. I agree with you. arguing sucks anyway. If bonestocksr20 wants to have 600whp, it may be a better choice to go with 2JZ. It is already FI and with little modification, he will reach that goal. For LS1 to hit 600whp is possible but I think it will cost more...... Turbo kit for LS1 is about $3500 and up....... and I still don't think you will get 600whp with just a bolt on turbo. I think internal component needs change.

I'm not too sure about overall "Q" curve...... I'm not that knowledgeable with engine. All I can say is that I love my LS1 swap. good luck to bonestocksr20 for his swap
Modified by nmssr08 at 12:15 PM 6/27/2008

[WDRacing]

Nice wrap up. I agree with you. arguing sucks anyway. If bonestocksr20 wants to have 600whp, it may be a better choice to go with 2JZ. It is already FI and with little modification, he will reach that goal. For LS1 to hit 600whp is possible but I think it will cost more...... Turbo kit for LS1 is about $3500 and up....... and I still don't think you will get 600whp with just a bolt on turbo. I think internal component needs change.

I'm not too sure about overall "Q" curve...... I'm not that knowledgeable with engine. All I can say is that I love my LS1 swap. good luck to bonestocksr20 for his swap

The bolt on kits are definitly expensive. But the LS can definitly make 600 ponies without requiring new internals. Especially if boost is involved. Getting the initial 600 with the 2J will also involve a turbo upgrade though...so that expense is negated. So we're once again on a level playing field. The bonus is that the 2j has lower compression enabling it to run higher boost without race fuel and or alcohol injection. But the LS can safely run 8psi with a good tune and still use pump gas. Most LS motors on 8 psi make over 500 to the wheels. NO 2j will make that on 8 psi. I might also add that the 2J will suffer from turbo lag when you upgrade to anything that will efficiently support 600 WHP. The LS has over 300 ft lbs of torque at the press of the peddle

If you add methanol injection the LS can easily make 800whp before you really need to start looking at swapping out internals.

And the "Q" anwser is an easy one, the LS will provide more power under the curve then the 2J simply because of the cubes.

So yes, the 2J is a friggin sweet motor. It can make a metric ton of power before you need to swap out internals...but other then that ONE spot it lags behind the LS in ALL other area's.

BTW...for forged pistons and rods with ARP hardware it's under $1000 That makes the LS basically unlimited as far as power goes. Since the 2J is usually $1000 more the the LS anyway...well there you have it.

Nothing against the 2J, it's the best I6 on the planet IMO.

WD

[nmssr08]

The bolt on kits are definitly expensive. But the LS can definitly make 600 ponies without requiring new internals. Especially if boost is involved. Getting the initial 600 with the 2J will also involve a turbo upgrade though...so that expense is negated. So we're once again on a level playing field. The bonus is that the 2j has lower compression enabling it to run higher boost without race fuel and or alcohol injection. But the LS can safely run 8psi with a good tune and still use pump gas. Most LS motors on 8 psi make over 500 to the wheels. NO 2j will make that on 8 psi. I might also add that the 2J will suffer from turbo lag when you upgrade to anything that will efficiently support 600 WHP. The LS has over 300 ft lbs of torque at the press of the peddle

If you add methanol injection the LS can easily make 800whp before you really need to start looking at swapping out internals.

And the "Q" anwser is an easy one, the LS will provide more power under the curve then the 2J simply because of the cubes.

So yes, the 2J is a friggin sweet motor. It can make a metric ton of power before you need to swap out internals...but other then that ONE spot it lags behind the LS in ALL other area's.

BTW...for forged pistons and rods with ARP hardware it's under $1000 That makes the LS basically unlimited as far as power goes. Since the 2J is usually $1000 more the the LS anyway...well there you have it.

Nothing against the 2J, it's the best I6 on the planet IMO.

WD

Nice. I heard making 450HP+ on LS1 is fairly easy..... and so as 2JZ. I love both engines. I have heard 2JZ engine and they run very smooth. I would of gone with 2JZ but I went with LS1 for Smog reasons here in california. I heard that it's nearly impossible to smog legal JDM 2J engines here and coming across 2JZ engine newer than 1997 is almost impossible..... my reasons for getting LS1: Great power with reliability from NA engine, smog capable, 6speed transmission, parts are cheaper. If funny to see peoples face when I pull into gas station.....they hear V8 coming but all they see is my S14 stop at the pump. The confusing look on their face is priceless.

[Ls1pwr]

i dont really want to argue anymore, u cant really compare a motor built for boost vs a motor built to be n/a. but if u really want to look at these:

fastest bolt on ls1's, (stock heads, cam, or valvetrain motor never opened) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/...35743

fastest stock bottom end (stock pistons rods and crank)http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/...heads

in the end i respect 2jz's they take a lot of boost and are good engines, but they are no ls1. the torque, powerband, and lightweight (weights 120lbs less then ls1) make it a better choice. what makes the swap even worse is ppl use the 5 speed which has even shorter gear ratio's then the stock supra 6 speed. The peaky power band and light weight of the 240sx almost guarantee the car will never get traction.

[CRZSWAP]

Just for the record, my LS1 Z32 is making 400whp with only a mild cam and exhaust. LS1 motors may not have been engineered to except 250% more than there base hp like a 2J, but, you can spray the ballz off a LS1 and daily drive it forever. I know of 3 or 4 people local to me who are spraying a 175shot on stock internals with no problems.

I went thru this same debate before I did my swap on swinging back and forth between the LS1 or 2J. I finally chose the LS1 because at the time, there was only 2 other LS1 swaps documented in a Z32 and I came across a good deal on one. I would have to say that IMO the LS1 is way more reliable than the 2J just for the simple fact that it is N/A.

And the LS1 swap can be done for roughly 6k if you are genius enough to custom fab everything yourself.

[WDRacing]

Just for the record, my LS1 Z32 is making 400whp with only a mild cam and exhaust.

400WHP in an S Chassis is enough for almost any experienced driver Especially when the torque curve starts at 2500

WD

[RCA]

So I'm not blinded by any stupid brand loyalty.

My response:

I will go with the road less traveled by...Though I agree with the LS1 for a bang for your buck swap, I found some comments that are either not backed-up or are people's opinion trying to be passed for as factsSo I call....

The only way to compare anything is to set bench marks and see what it takes to get each motor to that point. Lets not also forget that there are quite a few fabricators on these boards...myself included. So I can easily flip a set of headers, weld up some cross piping and install a T70 for about $1400.

A T70 would cost you more then $1400

Since the LSx can be found for about that much less then the 2J you're now comparing a turbo LSx and a 2J...which is the only way to compare two separate motors. Comparing one FI motor to one NA motor is a horrible way to determine anything.

Comparing two engines and comparing an engine full potential is different.Obviously 5.7L Turbo > 3.0L TurboThe 2JZ needs the boost in order to make up for the lack of displacement and cylinders. If this isn't the case then theses "Engine VS Engine" threads are useless.And yet top fuel dragsters use 500ci Hemis instead of a 505ci RB wedge. So its not all about CIs

So how about less trash talking and more realistic comparisons. If the goal is 600whp what are the objectives? Cheaper? Broader overall "Q" curve? What?

Sorry if what I said was understood as trash talkin. I was just calling BS.

Not sure which is cheaper but...600hp on a 2ZJ:- Fuel system upgradeFuel pumpFPRInjectors & rail

Turbo-GT40 (Or an equivalent) Exhaust manifold (oil lines, flanges, misc turbo goodies)

Engine and Fuel Management:AEM, MotecJDM tyte gauges2 hours of dyno time

Not sure exactly what "Q" curve. Guessing a torque curve. Which factory head specs the 2JZ will produce almost identical torque as HP. But with the use of a GT40 I would make the assumption the the LS1>2JZ

Throwing out random numbers sucks WD

I felt that the "random" numbers I threw out was valid/necessary information to explain reliability.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i dont really want to argue anymore, u cant really compare a motor built for boost vs a motor built to be n/a. but if u really want to look at these:

fastest bolt on ls1's, (stock heads, cam, or valvetrain motor never opened) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/...35743

fastest stock bottom end (stock pistons rods and crank)http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/...heads

These sites show ETs of cars...We need dyno numbers from engines. Good research tho. Serious #s from those F-bodys!

in the end i respect 2jz's they take a lot of boost and are good engines, but they are no ls1. the torque, powerband, and lightweight (weights 120lbs less then ls1)

Agreed

what makes the swap even worse is ppl use the 5 speed which has even shorter gear ratio's then the stock supra 6 speed. The peaky power band and light weight of the 240sx almost guarantee the car will never get traction.

As for the 6 speed VS 5 speed argument here are the ratios:

V160:First gear: 3.830:1Second gear: 2.360:1Third gear: 1.680:1Fourth gear: 1.310:1Fifth gear: 1:1Sixth gear: 0.790:1

R154:First Gear: 3.250:1Second Gear: 1.955:1Third Gear: 1.310:1Fourth Gear: 1.00:1Fifth Gear: 0.753:1

The 6speed has a much shorter first three gears then the 5speed.But the five speed has the same last two gears. A 240sx with a 6speed would just lead to a short 1st gear and a slightly longer top speed. Probably in the neighborhood of 190mph or so.

So if anything the gears are shorter on the 6speed which would make traction more difficult. While as the longer gears on the 5 speed would make for better overall traction potential.

[WDRacing]

A T70 can be done for $500 unless you enjoy over paying for parts that have a brand name on them. Do me a favor, don't argue this one.

Don't use top fuel anything in this thread..its stupid.

Don't be offended because I can make more power throughout the rpm range with an LS1 then I can with a 2J man. The 2J is a great motor, but it CAN NOT make the power that a LS can for the money...period.

If you don't know that "Q" stands for torque then perhaps you should keep learning son.

I didn't want this to end with me being biased, but the 2J simply won't make the power the LSx will. Unless of course you're referring to peaky top end power full of turbo lag.

WD

[RCA]

^ LMAOYou are too funny. You just referred to me as "son". I haven't heard that term used that way is quite some time. I the last time that happend I was talking to my little brothers slick talking friend.

Any way I wont argue with you about the T70 issue because I respect the fact that your a moderator . But what I will do is ask for you to send me your email so when I go single you can hook me up

Don't be offended because I can make more power throughout the rpm range with an LS1 then I can with a 2J man. The 2J is a great motor, but it CAN NOT make the power that a LS can for the money...period.

Agreed ang again

I will go with the road less traveled by...Though I agree with the LS1 for a bang for your buck swap, I found some comments that are either not backed-up or are people's opinion trying to be passed for as factsSo I call.... BS

If you don't know that "Q" stands for torque then perhaps you should keep learning son.

Perhaps I should keep learning. I mean I am currently reading alot of the Engineering section of NICO as well as Bosch's Auto Motive Handbook...

But just because you know that "Q" stands for torque means nothing.

I didn't want this to end with me being biased, but the 2J simply won't make the power the LSx will. Unless of course you're referring to peaky top end power full of turbo lag.

WD

Agreed. If you are drag racing a JZ and launching at idle then yea tons of lag.If you are on a circut and use an 600+HP aplication then yea LS1 can make more usable power.

I mentioned the top fuel because you basicly are saying that the bigger displacement the better the engine. I was basicly stateing that this isnt always the case. Engineering also has alot to do with it. But of course you are way to "Super Grumpy" to realize that point.

[WDRacing]

HAHA...I say son a lot. The T70 thing is a Ebay T70 rebuilt with a BB center cartridge or a standard bushing center from garret. Both are cheap and easy to do. No way I'm paying over $500 for any turbo. BUT, if you don't like Ebay stuff, then get a Holset turbo...used of course. They run in really big sizes for things like the Duramax V8 diesel. Usually $350-600 depending.

The only real reason I'm not a fan of big power I6 motors is the lag. I've had 2 Skylines and driven plenty of high hp Supra's. Lag sucks man. The LS has a metric ton of "torque" at the touch of the go peddle. Add boost and methanol and you've got a pretty good recipe for insanity.

Anything more then 450ish in an S Chassis and you're just spinning the tires though. Unless you enjoy spending mad cash on drag radials all the time.

Oh and just cause I'm a moderator doesn't mean I know ****...lol. Nor does it mean that I can't be argued with. I will dish it out with the best of them, so in turn I expect to get handed my fair share of ****

[RCA]

HAHA...I say son a lot. The T70 thing is a Ebay T70 rebuilt with a BB center cartridge or a standard bushing center from garret. Both are cheap and easy to do. No way I'm paying over $500 for any turbo. BUT, if you don't like Ebay stuff, then get a Holset turbo...used of course. They run in really big sizes for things like the Duramax V8 diesel. Usually $350-600 depending.

Never knew people did that with egay turbos. Sounds like a real money saver if you ask me. How does it perform after you put a beating on it?

Import Tuner did a "Budget KA-T" build article and they used a an old Holset turbo instead of a GT28. I was impressed because it ran them like $200 where as a GT28 is like $1k

Lag sucks man. The LS has a metric ton of "torque" at the touch of the go peddle. Add boost and methanol and you've got a pretty good recipe for insanity.

+1 Lag sucks+10 power at the push of a peddle.

But I think having some lag is good. With climeing gas prices having the abillity to cruise with the MPG of a 3.L is pretty awesome, only to then floor it and get some awesome neck breaking "Q". But oviously this can only be achieved on cars with reasonable boost #s that are street legal (which is my plan)

Anything more then 450ish in an S Chassis and you're just spinning the tires though. Unless you enjoy spending mad cash on drag radials all the time.

I would say so. I think this applys to almost all cars...

Oh and just cause I'm a moderator doesn't mean I know ****...lol. Nor does it mean that I can't be argued with. I will dish it out with the best of them, so in turn I expect to get handed my fair share of ****

Wasn't expecting that reply...Your not that "Super Grumpy" after all!

But seriously I do want your email.Some time in the future I will want you to make a T70 set up for my 2JZ for $1400...

WDRacing FTMFW!

[Ls1pwr]

haha your funny!!! u really think 5 cubic inches makes a difference? 5ci is means nothing. when i said "no replacement for displacement" i was comparing 5.7 to 3.0 liters, not a 500ci vs 505ci thats a very big difference! i also wouldnt compare mpg between a supra and an ls series engine. the new 427 cu inch ls7 out of the 06+ zo6 gets 28 mpg highway. the ls1 is a 346 it has great flowing heads and intake, 1 5/8 headers with full 3'' exhaust. it will get better gas mileage then a 2jz with similar setup. also why are u saying "+1 lagg sucks, +10 power at the push of a peddle"? that contradicts ur choice of a 2jz over an ls1.

[WDRacing]

How does it perform after you put a beating on it?

Import Tuner did a "Budget KA-T" build article and they used a an old Holset turbo instead of a GT28. I was impressed because it ran them like $200 where as a GT28 is like $1k

The turbo's that I've rebuilt and the ones I've seen rebuilt range from simple T3's off of Volvo's to the T70ish sized turbo's from Ebay. They aren't as good as the expensive Garret units, but they do work very well. The main flaw in most Chinese turbo's is the weak material used for the bushings in the center cartridge as well as the oil seals. But rebuild kits come with all the seals and bushings. If you can get your hands on a T3 from a RB20/25 or any other ceramic BB turbo you can swap out the seals and use the BB center section and basically you just made yourself a GT series turbo for 1/3 of the price. The bushing rebuild kits are anywhere from $80 to $120. I don't buy those from Ebay, simply because I want genuine garret stuff. Once you rebuild one, every turbo after that is pretty easy.

But I think having some lag is good.

Wasn't expecting that reply...Your not that "Super Grumpy" after all!

I'm using a TO4E with a .81 AR hot side on my KAT. It's pretty laggy, it starts making boost from 3k to 4500, but only like 9 psi. At 4500 it comes on like any big turbo does and flash spools to whatever boost level I have it set at. But it'll get 26/28 mpg off boost which definitely helps out with gas since premium is $4.50 now.

I used to have p0rn Fluffer as my title, but one of the admins changed it to "Super Grumpy" after an argument...lol. I do however have a low tolerance for stupid. So I often earn the title

also why are u saying "+1 lagg sucks, +10 power at the push of a peddle"? that contradicts ur choice of a 2jz over an ls1.

He's just agreeing with a statement that's all. Which is usually what happens when people can have a real conversation about something without getting heated and or have unrealistic biased views. The 2J is one of the best motors ever built and IS the best I6 IMO. Every 240/2J swap I've seen has turned out to be an excellent platform and usually pretty quick.

WD

[RCA]

haha your funny!!! u really think 5 cubic inches makes a difference? 5ci is means nothing. when i said "no replacement for displacement" i was comparing 5.7 to 3.0 liters, not a 500ci vs 505ci thats a very big difference!

Well ok I see what you mean. But that example still applies.These guys can use any engine they want... I have heard of 700+ci bored and stroked engines. But John Force uses 500ci. And apparently size doesn't matter to Ashley Force either...

So I might have a shot at her

i also wouldnt compare mpg between a supra and an ls series engine. the new 427 cu inch ls7 out of the 06+ zo6 gets 28 mpg highway. the ls1 is a 346 it has great flowing heads and intake, 1 5/8 headers with full 3'' exhaust. it will get better gas mileage then a 2jz with similar setup.

Your right.The 06' Vettes have terrific MPG ratings. And this link would explain its great MPG, as well as why the C6 Vette doesn't have to pay the gas guzzler taxhttp://www.c6corvetteforum.com/

The C6 Corvette retains its relatively high fuel economy, in part by upshifting to higher gears as soon as possible. Equipped with an automatic transmission, the C6 achieves 18/26 mpg (city/highway), and the manual transmission is slightly better at 18/28. However, some prospective Corvette buyers are surprised to find that the C6 Corvette's manual transmission is fitted with a lockout device, obligating the driver to shift from 1st directly to 4th when operating at lower RPMs.

The MPG of a C6 with a LS2/LS7 is 18/26 or 28.The MPG of a 240sx with a LS2/LS7 would be closer to 15/20

also why are u saying "+1 lagg sucks, +10 power at the push of a peddle"? that contradicts ur choice of a 2jz over an ls1.

AGAIN I REFER TO MY FIRST STATEMENT:

I will go with the road less traveled by...Though I agree with the LS1 for a bang for your buck swap, I found some comments that are either not backed-up or are people's opinion trying to be passed for as factsSo I call....

I didn't come here to argue that the 2JZ is a better motor. I read all the mis-information about the 2JZ that people were using as reasons for choosing LS1 over 2JZ. So I just came on here to withdrawal some truth from this thread as well as inject some of my own.

He's just agreeing with a statement that's all. Which is usually what happens when people can have a real conversation about something without getting heated and or have unrealistic biased views. The 2J is one of the best motors ever built and IS the best I6 IMO. Every 240/2J swap I've seen has turned out to be an excellent platform and usually pretty quick.

WD

[Ls1pwr]

Your right.The 06' Vettes have terrific MPG ratings. And this link would explain its great MPG, as well as why the C6 Vette doesn't have to pay the gas guzzler taxhttp://www.c6corvetteforum.com/

The MPG of a C6 with a LS2/LS7 is 18/26 or 28.The MPG of a 240sx with a LS2/LS7 would be closer to 15/20

sorry your information is wrong if u think it will get that much less mpg. the coefficient of drag for a c6 corvette is 0.34 while the 240sx is 0.30. the corvette 6 speed has a rear gear ratio of 3.42, i have 3.60's. i also weigh 600lbs less then a c6. so if anything i should have better gas mileage around town, and the same or better on the highway.

the drag coefficient information was from motor trends site aswell as carfolio.com

[RCA]

sorry your information is wrong if u think it will get that much less mpg. the coefficient of drag for a c6 corvette is 0.34 while the 240sx is 0.30. the corvette 6 speed has a rear gear ratio of 3.42, i have 3.60's. i also weigh 600lbs less then a c6. so if anything i should have better gas mileage around town, and the same or better on the highway.

the drag coefficient information was from motor trends site aswell as carfolio.com

Ok so you are stating that I am wrong then to say that you "should" get better MPG isn't exactly concrete. But if you REALLY think that a 5.7L V-8 gets better MPG then a 3.0L I-6...Then Hey, I guess there is no convincing you

To find out for sure set up a MPG test.

Set up two routes. Highway and regular street.Set up two styles of driving. Regular driving style.Then a gas saving mode.

Then do the mathThen post up a OFFICIAL LSX S13 MPG thread
Modified by rcabrita at 4:32 PM 6/30/2008

[mantis]

I believe people have posted their gas mileage with LS1's and regular driving. As I recall, most where in the low 20's. Don't quote me on that though.

[WDRacing]

I'm pretty sure most people that remove the 4 cylinder and install the V8 aren't really concerned with gas mileage. It also makes me want to throw up a little when we mention mpg in a motor comparison thread that is based on performance

I know we're all getting the bone at the pump these days believe me...but if you're worried about fuel prices perhaps a VTEC swap is more your style

Or perhaps a propane flex fuel system, just food for thought.

WD