295hp?

[dsmtuner]

i've heard somewhere on this forum that the 1990-1993 models have 295hp and 302lbs of torque, is it true?

[szh]

Officially, it was 278hp (I forget the torque). Had to do with Japanese laws that tax'ed cars over 280hp at a higher rate. However, the cars felt stronger for sure! I do not know if any "unofficial" figures (like the ones you quote) exist.

Z

[jtesensky]

I wonder if there are any good dynos out there...?

[redmanfx]

I can tell you that the Hp is really like 285 in my 93 Q45a and the torque is very high as well and will snap your neck if you step to hard on that gas pedal. Careful at higher speeds because that's when the Q45 will really take off if maintained well. Remember not to jerk the wheel when your pinned back in your seat because the stearing can be sensitive even with the sway bars for first timers. I saw figures on another forum, but don't remember where. They are surprising and that's why this car is a hidden gem. If you drive you'll be hooked.

redmanfx93 Q45a

[PalmerWMD]

I saw figures on another forum, but don't remember where. They are surprising and that's why this car is a hidden gem. If you drive you'll be hooked.

They were probably quoted or pasted from this one.We are <the> forum for early Q's.

Try a search we have a thread somewhere here in Infiniti General that lists guesstimated hp/tq figures by model year.

Fred...

[DAEDALUS]

The problem is a dyno will never give you an exact number, since it measures wheel hp, whereas the stated hp is at the crank. You have to back-calculate losses, but those can only be estimated. If you dyno at close to 250 I'd say for sure you're above 278whp.

[PalmerWMD]

An AT car with LSD and RWD will expereince about 22% driveline loss.

With JWT ECU and a clean plenum and everything running as new 240 hp at wheels is realistic.

My old 91 with dirty plenum and aged injectors got 238 hp with JWT, which calculates out to about 303-306 hp at the engine.

Sadly I never had a chance to run it after Dennis "fine tuned" my Q to the point where it was so smooth it was impossible to tell by touch if it was running.I expect it woiuld have been noticably stronger still

Fred..

[AZ94Q]

Didn't Dennis dyno his, and get 248 RWHP? I think he was assuming a 20% drivetrain loss, so roughly 300 hp...

I still remember stillens packages... With the exhaust/intake/ecu/tcu, they were claiming around 315 hp...

It would be REALLY interesting, if one of you level ten equipped Q guys, could/would dyno your cars..

Apparently level tens offer 11% more efficiently to the rear wheels..

JWT says with the ecu & intake, you should net roughly 30 hp... so a good runing Q, espically an earlier model year (sodium filled valves)...

I am of firm believe you should see 250 RWHP, with a 90-92 Q, with all the goodies...

[Rex]

Don't ask what I was doing looking at posts from 2002, but I found this interesting discusion on early Q hp.

[rsiwicki]

hey az94Q....is that a "hint" for me. I do plan on getting it dyno after I get all these things done to it. I would like to do it right now to do a before and after, but I will have to settle for an "after" test

I know an XJR stock has 295RWHP....got to go for it.

[AZ94Q]

RSI,

Read my mind

XJR has 295 RWHP... interesting...

So let's see.. if we can get to 250, and then maybe another 25 with the level ten efficieny, we are looking at maybe 275 RWHP... that would be awesome... Only 25rwhp short of the xjr...

All without the eaton... LOVE IT.

[AZ94Q]

I would love to get to 300RWHP on an N/A Q..

Do 4.08 gears actually increase dyno numbers?

It does increase torque, so would that translate into dyno runs?

[rsiwicki]

no idea on the 4.08 gears increasing the dyno numbers....good question. I would think so. I guess we will have to find out in about a month or so. Ordered JWT TCU the other day and did the core exchange charge thing...but they said it would take at least 7 weeks as they are really busy from a lot of the new 350Z business. Damn...Maybe I should buy their stock.

BTW...check your email about some tires and my wheels that you are getting as I shredded a tire today and need to buy some tires to hold me over until I get my new wheels...speaking of which...I need to stop playing here and start searching for some wheels

I think with all the mods that we should be close to 275 RWHP...as that would be a good bump from say a stock 240 RWHP as per an earlier post. Either way, more or less than 275 hp....what matters to me is that my front bumper is ahead of my personal number one competitors bumper....an XJR whether it be 0-60 or 1/4. I think my new tire size...275/40/18 will provide some good sticky traction versus letting them spin to give another edge

[AZ94Q]

RSI,

You have any stock XJRs to race, when you get all built up?

275 RWHP is a sexy figure, indeed...

If level ten isn't bull$hitting us, it would seem obtainable.

I always wondered how a mere transmission could cut .5 to 1.0 sec off a 1/4 espically if it doesnt improve tranyn shift time, which again seems highly debateble..

It seems much misinformation is spread around this forum, regardling level ten...

If you dyno 10% higher with the level ten, and have faster shifts, the debate is DEAD

Level ten gives you more HP to the wheels, makes shift times faster, and EASILY makes up for any difference with the 4.08 having to shift to 3rd, at the end of the 1/4

Someone on here said they ran a 14.2 with a 94 with level ten, but with no JWT ecu... Granted this was on a gtech, but it couldnt be that far off.

I'm thinking with

JWT Ecu/TCu4.08Level ten/torque convertorExhaustCAI

Hopefully low 14s or god, it would be so great, high 13s... at hopefully triple digits..

I always considered the 100 mph mark, an officialy fast trap in the 1/4.. if we could get there, it would be really nice..

Not to mention the XJR can only pull a 103, with all that off the line power.. even if we were a few mph off from the xjr in the 1/4, we may be able to run neck and neck in a freeway race, or who knows slighty faster..

RSI, you are our official XJR killer guru.. my friend never races his anymore.. weak

You must be the one to report to us!

[maxnix]

PalmerWMD has totally correct recall.

I am somewhat sceptical about transmissions adding power, or conversely, cutting powertrain losses in half.

[PalmerWMD]

Triple didit traps speeds are attainable as my old 91 Q ran almost 99mph with JWt but dirty plenum and old injectors.

Low 14's well, I dont know...

I have the level ten and it doesnt seem to add anything I can tell, I know, I know, butt dynos, dont count...

I just dont want folks to set themselves up for disapointment.

I think short of FI, we will be lucky to get to mid 14's.Even tho there is one member who claimed low 14's with JWT and 4.08 in a 94..

Maybe when I finally find the time to fix my ECU issue, we can lay this debate to rest, as my 94 Q has nearly all of those mods listed and my engine is mechanically in very near perfect condition right now.(recent thorough plenum clean, recent plugs, recent OX sensors, recent KS , proper running rad w/ recent Tstat, always 93 Octane gas, only perfromance related stuff thats original is MAF and injectors)

It is missing the last 800 rpm right now, vs a JWT ecu'ed Q.

Right now, running 15.4 sec with good grip at 93 mph, w/ JWT ( which is malfunctioning but as far as I can tell, only w/ regards to redline),4.08, Borla exhaust and full level ten. How much extra will those missing 800 rpm give me?

I dont know, but I cant imagine it being close to the full a second needed, for low 14's, probbaly more like half a second.So I would be happy with high 14's.

Fred...

[AZ94Q]

Max,

You are calling level ten liars. That is fine, but let's not dance around the subject.

Level ten has specifically told buyers of this transmsision it improves efficeny and makes shifts faster.

So either you are wrong, or level ten is lieing. You being wrong is ok, but level ten lieing is bad. They do this for a living, and should stand by their word.

Low 14s, seems very achievable.. You ran a 99 in your 91 with JWT? well high 90s traps usually come around low to mid 14s..

94+ really don't count, unless they have the 90-93 gears.. Not to mention you are losing aerodynamics, sodium filled valves, etc etc..

So, let's just assume this is a 90-92 discussion

Well maintained 15.0 stock

JWT Ecu/TCU 14.8

Now you only need to knock .8 off the 1/4 mile to get 14.0

Level ten says the transmission will knock .5-1.0 second off. Unless they are flat out lieing, that should take you to the 14.0

This isn't even including the 4.08

With the 4.08/level ten/torque convertor, a mean monster launch with that torque convertor, I honestly don't see how low 14s arn't achievable.

[AZ94Q]

Palmer,

Your quarter mile time is absolutely atrocious. You have a great car, but what gives...

I could probably run that in my stock 94...

Stock 94s ran 15.5@93 or so..

With all those mods, even if you have a few issues, you should run a faster then stock 1/4 mile..

I specifically remember the B.A.D website claiming low 14s with the mods... they had it broken down in stages...

[AZ94Q]

Let's be very CLEAR here..

94s are significantly slower then first generations

On paper the loss may not look like much, but from real world experience, it takes the q from being a deceptively quick car (sports car beater on freeways) to nice lux car, with adaqute power..

I know you have a ton of mods palmer, and they really should improve your 1/4 mile, more then the stock time, so I think your car is a complete anomaly(sp?)

I am sticking by low 14s@high 90s or possibly 100s, with a 90-93 (90-92 being better) JWT/4.08/leven ten/modded torque convertor.

[rsiwicki]

well we shoudl all know in about 2 weeks and most arguments will be layed to rest...at least with my car and what level ten can do for it...I had 2 main reasons for the new transmission...

1. LevelTen's claims of increased efficiency of transfering power from flywheel to rearwheels and improved shifting capabilities

2. The lower gears in the 90-93 transmission's as my car is a 95 with the slow poke gears...I have got to somehow get on an even foot with all you 90-93 guys and then maybe if I ever get my JWT ECU/TCU we can really run together

I will not have the JWT ECU/TCU, but I should have everything else so I will see what happens without those mods and will drive up to Moroso to see what I got. Better be worth the $$ I have put into this thing or I will sh_t my pants. I know my car up in NJ did the 1/4 at about 15. 7 or 8 something.....can't remember the speed nor figure exactly but I know it was not below 15.5. It was only one run after autocrossing as a friend had an extra spot they needed filled at the track as I was leaving to run with them that afternoon. I don't really understand what the issue about sodium filled valve do...but I will "shake it like a salt shaker" to get some sodium in there if that is of any help.:pface

It will be hard to tell just how good LevelTen will be for me becuase of the gears being lower so it will of course feel (and damn well better be) faster. I know how two different transmission's shift (OEM & rebuilt..both slightly different but neither bad) so I will definetly be able to comment on the shifting strength of LevelTen afterwards.

[AZ94Q]

RSI,

With you and I doing tests, we should be able to figure everything out.

My car is coming very soon... I can tell you the first thing I will be doing (after changing out the ancient fluids) Is taking it to the track..

I should be able to provide good before/after..

In it's current spec, it will be laid out like this

92 Q45A (roll cage adding weight)JWT ECU/TCUOrig DiffStilln Exhaust/Intake

In that form, I am hoping for high 14s.. we'll see..

I will see how much a diff swap costs.. I was going to wait for the level ten to arrive, before doing the swap, however I am thinking I want to do a step by step process, since nobody has really done it yet for the Q.

[EWT]

Max,

You are calling level ten liars. That is fine, but let's not dance around the subject.

Level ten has specifically told buyers of this transmsision it improves efficeny and makes shifts faster.

I'd like to hear an explanation of how they "improve efficiency." The decreased time between shifts is plausible, but I doubt it would make a big difference on a transmission that is still acceptable on the street. The primary motivation for transmission modifications are usually reliability rather than performance.

Level 10 has a good reputation here, but a poor one on other car forums (their Supra transmissions do not work well at all), so I wouldn't take what they say as gospel.

Quote »94+ really don't count, unless they have the 90-93 gears.. Not to mention you are losing aerodynamics, sodium filled valves, etc etc..[/quote]

Sodium filled valves don't have any impact on power, and any minor difference in aerodynamics would have a negligible effect in quarter mile times.

I do agree that 94/95s are noticibly slower, but IMO it is due to the differences in the heads and gearing rather than valves and aerodynamics.

If you get a chance to go with the modfiied ECU, it would be very interesting to do passes with it and with a stock ECU if possible. Based on experience with other cars, color me skeptical that remapping fuel and timing on a NA car would make much of a difference.

[AZ94Q]

Heads/valves... whatever..

point being the same... 90-92 engine is much stronger..

The 94+ engine has a surge above 4, but nothing after that.. it's smooth until redline

My 91, pulled hard after 4, but then when it passed 5, it started pulling significantly harder.

Funny you mentioned the supra on here... There was just someone who said their friend has a level ten on his 450+ hp supra, and hasnt had any issues, for years. When I owned my 96 MKIV TT, they were all the rage within the community.

Also they have several magazine articles with supra builds, on their website.

Like I said before, level ten specifically said you gain efficiency in the way the car transforms power to the flywheel

Now, either level ten is lieing, or we are wrong..

lets settle this

A transmission could be a huge performance help, if it is designed for performance, as opposed to smooth shifting and uber reliability.

I agree with what you said about the ECU, except in the q45 its different. There is a ton of built in safety, which can be removed, and good power gained. The ECU will net you between 5-10% on every Q. It's a solid proven mod..

Everything on cars is designed for reliability, and some performance. If you want to go fast, you want every part optimized for speed.

I think someone should contact level ten and ask them for specifics on how that 10 or 11% (whatever it was) is earned through better efficiency...

Anyone care to contact level ten and have them elaborate?

[AZ94Q]

Also, as far as I know there were NO head changes from 92-93. They did however drop the sodium filled valves..

It's widely accepted the 93 was slower then the 92s, which were slower then the 90-91.. Again, we are talking about maybe .1-.3, which isn't much, but when your looking to go fast, a car length is important.

[QShip]

Glen aka aaacomp said the heads were changed on the motor after the first 18 months of production. That's one of the reasons why the earliest Q's are the best performers.

[1qckser]

I think the effiecieny will come from the transmission and convertor combo, the transmission shifts faster and firmer so that is less time spent hanging between gears, and the convertor will be new/rebuilt so any slipage that was had and not felt with the old convertor will be gone, plus the higher stall speed really helps to get things going, I have riddin in 2 Level 10 cars and thet felt great, good luck and keep us posted:) Here is an old thread that might help.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....+dynohttp://home.comcast.net/~mbruni13/1qckdyno1.wmv

On one of the first few runs we seen #s around 234, but the dyno wasnt revving past 5850 so we stopped the run, I think with my JWT/ECU and all new fluids I will see around 235-240 @ the wheels:)

[Q45tech]

A good stock 90-93 will show 210-220 RWHP at two peak [5500 and 6,000] exact rpms depend on plenum temperature at sealevel, with a good transmission.

Custom cold air intake with very very loud mufflers and JWT ecu and base timing set at 15 degrees MIGHT get a 235-245 RWHP.

Since dyno accelerations are all in 3rd gear [1:1 ratio] the transmission year model doesn't matter as all have the same direct gear and rear ratio and tire size........obviously tire make and model, rubber compound can make a difference as the tires GROW differently at 85-140 mph...........might result in 5% differences in cars [10-12 HP variations]......the tire gets larger in diameter effectively lowering the rear diff ratio.

You have to do 3-4 runs and measure tire temperature or wait 30 minutes between runs.

Luckily most highway acelerations start from less than 120F tires.

Since the diff gear and viscous alone represent a 3-4% loss the diff temp is critical......why second and third runs get better but the TC efficiency gets worse as the ATF increases temp.http://www.thrashercharged.com....shtmhttp://www.thrashercharged.com....shtmhttp://www.bgsoflex.com/rpmrange.html

The major problem is ALL oem TC efficiency is set to optimize highway mileage not acceleration, since the government taxes mpg not acceleration.

Even with lockup clutches the area just around lock 1500-2500 rpm is critical as slight accceleration without downshifting is the norm

[EWT]

The 94+ engine has a surge above 4, but nothing after that.. it's smooth until redline

My 91, pulled hard after 4, but then when it passed 5, it started pulling significantly harder.

Yeah, I agree. My 93 pulled a lot harder above 5K than my 95 does. Strangely the published quarter mile times aren't that different. I still need to get my 95 to the dragstrip to compare it to my 93 (15.05 @ 93.x)

Quote »Funny you mentioned the supra on here... There was just someone who said their friend has a level ten on his 450+ hp supra, and hasnt had any issues, for years. When I owned my 96 MKIV TT, they were all the rage within the community.

Also they have several magazine articles with supra builds, on their website.[/quote]

They don't have a good reputation on any of the supra communities I participate on. Many people had problems with their transmissions and they didn't stand behind their work or their claims. I forget the details, but other shops have found that they didn't really do a whole lot to the transmissions.

Quote »Like I said before, level ten specifically said you gain efficiency in the way the car transforms power to the flywheel

Now, either level ten is lieing, or we are wrong..[/quote]

Like I said, I'd like to hear what they do. I'm not saying they're lying, but taking claims from performance part vendors at face value generally leaves you poorer and no faster. I'm not an expert on auto trannies, but from what I know of them, the two possible ways they could "increase efficiency" would be to use a tighter converter, which would probably actually hurt quarter mile times since you couldn't launch as hard, or lock up the torque converter at WOT, which can be hard on the transmission. Another possiblity would be to dramatically shorten the intervals between shifts, but that wouldn't be very pleasent for daily use since the shifts would become very hard. The real test would be to compare quarter mile mph before and after a transmission with no other mods. If the mph doesn't go up, you're not putting more power down.

I probably sound like a grumpy old guy, but I've seen way too many claims from parts vendors that don't pan out and "increasing effciency by 10-11%" smells very fishy to me.

Eric

[AZ94Q]

I want the truth!

[natsoundup]

I don't know... I have a 90 and a 94.

Let me tell you...the 90 will do one of those things where your head will go back hard against the headrest..

the 94 is quick, but it is more of a smooth, quick acceleration. I just can't imagine the 94 beating the 90 in a quarter.

I am not about to run them against each other, though.