240z handling Questions (Need Info)

[Kaforlife]

Ok yes I am a noob when it comes to anything about Z cars but I love them. Right now I own a s13 and I love it but the 240z is just so for lack of better words awesome and its about 350 pounds lighter. Question is that I'm thinking about trading or selling my 240 to get one. I would just like to know can a 240z be made to handle like or better then my 240sx (key word made). I do a lot of driving on long and winding country roads so handling is a big thing to me . My bad for the long read. Thanks

[Pharaohabq]

well one thing that you should really consider is the lack of power steering on early Z's once you're used to it, they're great, they handle awesome, but you should also look into why you want a Z and know that they're temperamental ladies. If you want a 240, You should try to find as early a 69 or 70 as possible, or a late 73' since the 73's had more bells and whistles. Also remember these are 35 year old cars so you'll likely be looking at some restoration costs. If that doesn't sway you away, then when you find a Z, first thing to look at is underneath, behind the front wheels, look for rusting through of the floor pans, and for bad rust along the frame rails. while not unfixable, these are pretty expensive to repair. Good luck. Phar

[Kaforlife]

If i was to do a engine to maybe a rb20 or a ka24de I have one laying around is there any way to add power steering. My lack of knowledge on older car shows

[Kaforlife]

engine choices are L28ET ka24det ca18det rb20det if that makes any difference

[evildky]

the Z handles better than the SX in full stock trim, and if you don't ahve little girl arms or giant tires like me the steering isn't a real issue, just depends on what you're intended purpose for the car is, and the earliest cars came in at under 2200 lbs, while the 72-73's were a portly 2400, the earlier cars also came with less restrictive carbs, and the n/a's can be made to put 200 hp tot he wheels with a little help, the L28ET well mine put 299 to the wheel while ailing, building a better bottom end right now, should be in the 400 whp range, I think the VG30ET si also a great swap, moves the COG backa nd down a bit, and my Z31 just put 315 whp and 416 lbft of torque.....to the wheel! KA's brelong and SX's i think the CA si a great swap for a SPL but too small for the Z, and the RB20.....uh I consider taht one a big step backwards

my big azz wheelsand my old koni calssic's with ST springs nect to my new coil overs, sectiones housings with illumina inserts and GC coil overs, 440 lb front and 250 lb rear

[reggiegsd]

While an early Z does handle well for its time, its not the same as modern cars. Zs are more like old muscles cars, the stiffer you make it the better it handles. At least on smooth roads. On rough roads, a stiff Zcar can be a handful.

Making a Zcar handle is at best a compromise between stiff and comfort.

[nuinqua]

JEEZ! evildky, how big are those wheels? (tire size) Was it difficult to handle with those big front wheels?

[evildky]

handeling in the s30 is the same as any other car, stiffen it! what did nissan do to improve the 350Z?....stiffened the chassis and stiffened the springs, what did Chevy do to the suspension on the Z06 to make it handle better than the standard model?....they stiffened it, if you want comfort buy a cadillac, comfort is the opposite of handeling

thats not to say stiffer is always better but prettu much any productions car can benefit frm stiffer than stock

many of the nationally competetive 240Z's in FP run 450-600lb springs all around but no rear bar, I found I had no straight line traction with such a stiff rear with lots of camber, the 250's really got me hooking up, I still have more power than I can plant at full throttle, the car is just too light

my tires, are a 315/35/17 on 17x12's out back and 295/40/17's up front on 17x11's, and to make it even more difficult to steer, I have quicksteer knuckles and a smaller diameter steering wheel, when running it's not to too bad, but parking with those big V710's it is a workout

[Kaforlife]

wow 315 and 295

[Pharaohabq]

I've not heard of it being done, but I would imaging something could be fabbed up from a S130(280zx) power steering setup, though the rack might be too wide, you might need to find a more narrow rack. Maybe something from a maxima, or (ick) a honda. I would need to look at how wide a stock rack is from a 240... The PS Pump and brackets from an S130 should fit fine on the 240, though you may need to make modifications due to differences in the heads and especially intake manifolds. it might be a cool project... while moving Z's are pretty easy to steer, Stopped, the friction makes turning the wheels fun.

Phar

[reggiegsd]

Remember, Evildky's setup is intended for Autocross or competition and most people would not tolerate it on the street. Instead of the shortest, stiffest springs (the old Datsun Comps come to mind) consider milder springs (Eibachs) and stiffer than stock shocks. These cars are old designs and will flex to make up for stiff springs. I have broken several unibodies by running stiff springs. The C-pillar and the front frame rails are typical break points.

Super wide tires tend to break the wheel hubs as well as make the car hard to steer (I see Popeye arms in the future). If you are careful with the wheel off sets, you can fit a 245 under the rear fender. 245s will limit your steering lock in the front. Besides, Evildky is running way more power than you are likely to have. Remember, big wheels and tires equals more weight for the suspension to handle which equals worse handling.

Power steering on a Z isn't really needed unless you go with silly wide tires or your teeny little wife will drive the car. Its a good thing because adapting power steering to an early Z car is tough. The Z is rear steer while most cars are front steer. The only power steering mod I have seen used the rack from a later '80s Thunderbird and a pump from a ZX. It was not very good, felt like a video game.


Modified by reggiegsd at 2:42 PM 5/21/2008

[evildky]

yes my setup is extreme and after driving it as ti is, any other manual steering feels light, as for power converions, the ZX rack sits on the wrong side of the axles, the zx pump and resivior are fine but for the rack there is a subaru rack and a miata rack taht tend to be favored

[Pharaohabq]

Ah yeah, I didn't think if a miata... I imagine a rack like that would be a good fit, doesn't mean there wouldn't be much Fab work. but yeah, I was thinking about my little wife driving it. If she is happy driving it, then I get to spend more $ on it

[Kaforlife]

Yeah it wasnt a must to have power steering and I dont plan on going to big on tires maybe 235 or 215

[evildky]

you can fit a 225 on stock suspension with stock body work, I've heard of getting more but you realy gotta get the offset just right

[Kaforlife]

Going with a smaller motor(ka or sr) will allow me to set it more towards the center of the car. With this weight shift is there a huge difference in handling for the better. Or is it just about the same as a l28et powered 240

[reggiegsd]

The car is very close to 50 - 50 out of the box. Slightly more weight on the front. When you add the driver the car is pretty much perfect. Engine swaps rarely improve the balance of a Z.

I've seen everything from a Mazda rotary to a Jag V12 stuffed into a Z car.

[evildky]

the smaller engine will move the COG back but so would a V8, the handeling on the S30 is pretty impressive otu of the box, up till very recently my plan was to swap in a VG30ET to move the COG back in my car, my thought was taht this would give me better straight line traction, I decided to build an L30 instead as the car is so well balanced and handles so well already I'm afraid of doing more harm than good

the best handling car I've ever driven was a first gen MR2, the problem with that car was it didn't have enough power to get you into trouble, the Z does, but it also has the power to get you out of trouble, the problem witht he smaller motors is you can get the big power but it's very peaky and up high, plenty of rope to hang yourself with but no grunt to get you out of a sticky situation, I'm find with built turbo KA's in the S13 and S14 as it came in there it only makes sence to use it seeing as it does have good potential, but just not worth the fab work required to put it into an S30 when the bolt in will give you just as much power but more usable, just wait till you get a Z, drive ti and feel ti out, I think you'll understand better when you have experience to make your decisions based upon, sometimes a good theory makes a terrible application

[Kaforlife]

Cool thanks for all the great info

[nuinqua]

My tires are 235/60R14 on front and 245/60R14 on rear. No power steering and it's not difficult to steer.

[IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG]