240sx skyline swap...
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AshNazg
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240sx skyline swap...
Can the Skyline engine swap into a 240sx be made street legal for California? How much does it cost to do? Is the JDM turbo swap a better bet?
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quiksilvia
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BIG difference in most the honda swaps. For one alot of the swaps are engines that are sold in the US, might be jspec but same ecu so OBDII are covered there. If it is OBDI you just get the sniffer up the tailpipe, and as long as you can pass you pass. With the skyline swap its a totally different engine code so pluging into the ecu wont work. And it looks totally different than the KA, no fooling anyone there. I think there is a way to make it "Legal" but I dont know if it cost money or how much.
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Nismo_Freak
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goshoryuken
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The RB26DETT in a 240sx in California will not be legal as Nismo_Freak pointed out. The SR swap can be made legal in California however if I understand what the law says correctly. You will however, need a spare ecu and need to dump the turbo for the time of testing to be issued a new VIN (this makes your car legal and will be issued a new, green colored VIN stamp). You can have the car issued a new VIN by installing a motor that looks identical to the NA SR20 installed, as in a sentra. In order to do this, you need a spare ecu from either a sentra or to have your ecu reprogrammed so it will run as an NA ecu vs. a turbo ecu. You will also need to remove the turbo from your car and have it run as an NA. Basically you'll have a sentra motor installed in your car but with the extra oil/coolant and better internals from the turbo but as an NA. You can be issued a new VIN doing it this way, and be able to register it before putting the turbo back on and swapping the ecu in. I'm sure there's a bit more to this than what is described. But I figure that a slight difference in appearance isn't looked at too much as my neighbor installed an integra type R motor into his del sol and was issued a new VIN even though he was sporting headers, and a fluidyne radiator, and spoon ignition wires at the time of testing. So that is what I'm figuring as a possible backdoor to this whole "illegal SR20DET in California" issue, as I too am a California resident.
The mounting is indeed different between the cars (silvias and sentras). I'm still in the process of finding out for sure if my assumption is ineed correct. The waterpump is also slightly different, as is the alternator. However, these could also be written off as modifications to make the engine work in the car. Some other dress ups to produce a faux USDM spec SR20DET I'm sure would be required in this process.
If there is anyone else who is familiar with emissions and engine laws for california, input would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, this is just an assumption based upon what I've read and what was told to me by my neighbor. Also keep in mind that although the engine was a type r engine, they are still found in the USA and are legal engines in the eyes of the law.
If there is anyone else who is familiar with emissions and engine laws for california, input would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, this is just an assumption based upon what I've read and what was told to me by my neighbor. Also keep in mind that although the engine was a type r engine, they are still found in the USA and are legal engines in the eyes of the law.
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spec-v5150
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180fan wrote:The RB26DETT in a 240sx in California will not be legal as Nismo_Freak pointed out. The SR swap can be made legal in California however if I understand what the law says correctly. You will however, need a spare ecu and need to dump the turbo for the time of testing to be issued a new VIN (this makes your car legal and will be issued a new, green colored VIN stamp). You can have the car issued a new VIN by installing a motor that looks identical to the NA SR20 installed, as in a sentra. In order to do this, you need a spare ecu from either a sentra or to have your ecu reprogrammed so it will run as an NA ecu vs. a turbo ecu. You will also need to remove the turbo from your car and have it run as an NA. Basically you'll have a sentra motor installed in your car but with the extra oil/coolant and better internals from the turbo but as an NA. You can be issued a new VIN doing it this way, and be able to register it before putting the turbo back on and swapping the ecu in. I'm sure there's a bit more to this than what is described. But I figure that a slight difference in appearance isn't looked at too much as my neighbor installed an integra type R motor into his del sol and was issued a new VIN even though he was sporting headers, and a fluidyne radiator, and spoon ignition wires at the time of testing. So that is what I'm figuring as a possible backdoor to this whole "illegal SR20DET in California" issue, as I too am a California resident.
What exactly does this have to do with an RB??? That car was never available in a 240 in north america period...hence illegal. You may be able to go the route of well the RB IS available....through motorex. However their motors have been deemed legal by the EPA. And come in SKYLINES not 240's. So that may not be a valid arguement either Some joe shhmoe swap wont be. PLUS there is the whole issue of not putting an older engine in a newer car. That only affects people who get RB20's in early s13's or someone getting an old RB25 in a 1998 S14. You get the point. If the inspectors know their ****, you may not even get past the visual. I know nothing of emissions because I didnt have any mods done when I lived in Cali and my state where I live now doesnt do inspections at all. Why are people getting high performance engines from country with different laws on emissions and being worried about smog???? I know the answer, but have you read the disclaimers on some of those engien sites..some states off road use only. Maybe you can bolt 3 or 4 or 5 cats (sarcasm) onto your exhaust. I have heard of a few SR20's passing, but I havent seen anything on an RB. Anyone worried about emssions..if you have relatives in another state, use their address and register your car there. And from my understanding most Honda engines from Japan were also available in USDM Hondas/Acuras as well. So that helps. Plus what average person can tell the difference between a b16a and a b18c. They all look the same to me
spec-v5150 there was the second part to his original post. I assumed by him asking about the legality of the "JDM Turbo swap" being the SR20DET. Additionally, I asked if there was anyone who had experience with at least some of the emissions laws, not someone who had moved to another state to get away from California emissions laws and has no idea of what the emissions laws are here. If you also haven't forgotten as a once California resident, you cannot register your car unless it can pass smog. Thus the necessity for it to be smog legal here. Clearly your response was an unneeded and a true waste of time as all you've managed to accomplish, instead of adding to this thread, was show how truly ignorant you are of the whole matter and the importance of the issue to Californian 240sx drivers. There is another problem with registering the car in another state in California, the police will tell you that you must register your car for California within 6 months of you moving or bringing to car to California.
From what I see of the EPA's requirements, is that the reason why Motorex is able to bring Skylines into the USA is because the RB26DETT does with modification, check for things that the EPA wants checked, not the things Japanese emissions controls officers want checked. The other thing, is that they're crash tested the car, making the actual car (not the motor) legal. The way they get around the issue of "engines available in the USA" is because they list those cars as custom cars, not as mass produced.
Yet another point you completely failed to realize is that I had already said that there would have to be work put into making the DET look like the DE, or did you completely skip that?
From what I see of the EPA's requirements, is that the reason why Motorex is able to bring Skylines into the USA is because the RB26DETT does with modification, check for things that the EPA wants checked, not the things Japanese emissions controls officers want checked. The other thing, is that they're crash tested the car, making the actual car (not the motor) legal. The way they get around the issue of "engines available in the USA" is because they list those cars as custom cars, not as mass produced.
Yet another point you completely failed to realize is that I had already said that there would have to be work put into making the DET look like the DE, or did you completely skip that?
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spec-v5150
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LOL I lived in Cali almost my whole life...yet my mom had her car registered in TX the WHOLE time and before I moved my SUV was registered in FL. So I know nothing about living in Cali. And I know motorex did more than just EPA testing. And BACK to my original question what does making a SR20det have to do with this guy asking about an RB in a 240?? Or did you fail to see that question. And I wasnt trying to be an *******. I just stated my view of it. As I said in my post I have limited knowledge of emissions. I DO know that if the engine wasnt made it that car technically it is illegal. RB, SR20deT emphasis on T. Add to the fact that about the det vs de. There was no RWD Sr20 in NA. So, they will be mounted differently. Like I said, if an inspector knew their ****, they could easily see the difference in the way they are mounted. So there is no need to mount a verbal assault on the internet. I am sorry I am not blessed with your VAST knowledge o fthis matter.
spec-v5150 do keep in mind that not everyone has the luxury of being able to have their car registered in another state. I merely stated what California law says about having your vehicle registered in another state. Excuse me if I was mistaken from what was originally posted as "Is the JDM turbo swap a better bet?" as a reference to the SR20DET as an alternative to the RB as that was the subject of this thread. I know the SR discussion was off topic, however, it was my thought that it was brought up as an alternative to the RB. Also I think you didn't to see my refernce as to making the RWD SR20DET into a NA version at the time of testing. There are legal ways to get another motor, other than what was built for your car, installed and to make it legal making it so that you can register the car. You just have to prove that it is indeed from that other US legal donor car. In this case you'd have to show that it were from a sentra, modified to fit your car, and then show that it is smoggable. The differences in the mounting of the engine would be written off as a modification necessary to make the swap work. Additionally, there was a NA version of the SR20 that was built in Japan for the silvias, it was the Q's.
Back to the off-topic, the emissions sensors that are included in the Japanese engine check for different things than the emissions sensors that are built for the USA. Thus the EPA coming in and blocking these engines. The reason for the reprogram on the ECU is that it's necessary to change the way these operate. There was much more done to the skylines to make them legal, that I know for sure as well, nor did I say that it was just the EPA and the crash testing that made the skyline legal, but they were listed as examples (exact details of the skyline legality issue is held by motorex). I am just merely trying to get discussion about how to make these engines legal instead of just going around trying to make useless and time wasting sarcastic remarks that does nothing for anyone except get people po'ed. I also have to add that I never said that I've a VAST knowledge of everything that goes on to make such a swap legal, just stating what I've found out through my own research on the matter as it is of concern to me too.
Back to the off-topic, the emissions sensors that are included in the Japanese engine check for different things than the emissions sensors that are built for the USA. Thus the EPA coming in and blocking these engines. The reason for the reprogram on the ECU is that it's necessary to change the way these operate. There was much more done to the skylines to make them legal, that I know for sure as well, nor did I say that it was just the EPA and the crash testing that made the skyline legal, but they were listed as examples (exact details of the skyline legality issue is held by motorex). I am just merely trying to get discussion about how to make these engines legal instead of just going around trying to make useless and time wasting sarcastic remarks that does nothing for anyone except get people po'ed. I also have to add that I never said that I've a VAST knowledge of everything that goes on to make such a swap legal, just stating what I've found out through my own research on the matter as it is of concern to me too.
Ok, on topic, no it will not be legal. The swap costs tons of money to begin with and is ill-founded if it's going to be a street car. If you catch one of the regulators or whatever they call them they'll peg you in a second. An RB series engine will NEVER be legal in a 240. If you are asking the question you don't have the knowledge to even attempt the swap, please don't try, please read more, learn more, and use the SEARCH function. Also, there is TONS of mis-or-newbie info in this post, everyone needs to let this kind of thing be handled by those of us who can give short, to the point answers.