Ok, i'm pretty new to these cars but i've been trying to gain as much knowledge about them if and when I buy one (more than likely a '91-'93 240 coupe).
I was searching through some of the sponsor websites on the left of the page and noticed a company was selling whole front clips. I figure if I do a swap, i'll get a front clip because in the end it will be alot easier.
I've been hearing around sr20 this, sr20 that, and its the most common swap that i've been seeing. Well what about the rb20det? I just noticed that a rb20det front clip is $2,200 versus the sr20det front clip that is $2,700 -- how does this make sense considering the rb20det has more horsepower stock. Is it because the sr20det clip will come with the jdm front clip or whats the deal? Someone please enlighten a DSM guy. :pface
240sx noob (RB20 vs sr20)
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Hijacker
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'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
The front clips now don't come with body panels 
except for the cefiro which has an RB20 IIRC. My only porblem with the RB series of engines is that it looks like it'll be cheaper to do initially, but once you factor in hidden costs, such as engine and transmission mounts, new driveshaft, and wiring work, the RB swap can easily outcost the SR swap. I know hyjnx, one of our members here and a mod at club240.com, was doing an RB swap but had to sell his parts because the cost was beginning to add up and it was a headache to do by himself.
The RB clip is initially cheaper because of popularity. Supply and demand have caused the SR clips to spike in price. It's also why I can't find a decent Silvia conversion for 500 bucks anymore.
except for the cefiro which has an RB20 IIRC. My only porblem with the RB series of engines is that it looks like it'll be cheaper to do initially, but once you factor in hidden costs, such as engine and transmission mounts, new driveshaft, and wiring work, the RB swap can easily outcost the SR swap. I know hyjnx, one of our members here and a mod at club240.com, was doing an RB swap but had to sell his parts because the cost was beginning to add up and it was a headache to do by himself.The RB clip is initially cheaper because of popularity. Supply and demand have caused the SR clips to spike in price. It's also why I can't find a decent Silvia conversion for 500 bucks anymore.
Hmmm...I thought you could use the mounts from the clip....Actually, last time I heard, rb blocks (except for rb26) were a straight fit, given an electric fan (some new holes) and ac was eliminated...Am I wrong?
I'd pick an rb20 any time over the sr 'cuz well, it's cheaper (1200 at venus) and well, more power....
I'd pick an rb20 any time over the sr 'cuz well, it's cheaper (1200 at venus) and well, more power....
it depends on what you mean by "straight fit." The rb20 will fit in the engine bay using the RB mounts but it will sit too high forcing you to cut the ribbing on the underside of the hood. You will also have to figure out what to do with the gauge cluster, either use the RB one which doesnt fit right or somehow adapt the stock one. All this has been covered before. there is an entire RB section here on nico.
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....d=135
Im surprised no one has given you **** and yelled "SEARCH!!!!" yet
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....d=135
Im surprised no one has given you **** and yelled "SEARCH!!!!" yet
hehe. ok since you are new I'm not gona yell, but: don't hijack threads. if you want to post a question that has nothing to do with this one start your own thread.The fastest way to find out a price is to call them up and ask them. its gona depend on what they have in stock (motor set vs clip) and where they are gona ship it to. no one here is going to give you a correct answer.
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Hijacker
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'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Chingon wrote:Hmmm...I thought you could use the mounts from the clip....Actually, last time I heard, rb blocks (except for rb26) were a straight fit, given an electric fan (some new holes) and ac was eliminated...Am I wrong?
I'd pick an rb20 any time over the sr 'cuz well, it's cheaper (1200 at venus) and well, more power....
all the RB blocks will bolt right into the 240 frame with the stock RB mounts, but as was mentioned, they sit funny. They sit forward a few inches, causing the shifter not to sit right among other things. It's recommended to get the McKinney motor mounts because it solves the issue of where the engine sits.
For a straight line, the RB would be my weapon of choice, but I enjoy making left and right turns at high velocities, and the RB paired with the 240 chassis isn't quite suited for the task as well as the stock KA or the SR. the RB weighs some 180 pounds more than the KA (i could be off on that number though). That's A LOT of weight when it comes to cars.When deciding your engine of choice, you need to take all factors into account, IMO.
weight as weighed by scc with motor transmission and crossmember, no achttp://www.sportcompactcarweb.....htmlka24de: 540 lbsrb25det: 720hearsayrb20det: 600 lbs (precisely "60LBS HEAVIER THAN MY KA24E")http://www.zilvia.net/f/showth...41732
I am still not convinced that the rb20 messes with the weight distribution significantly. a lot of the mass is in the transmission. I also do not have the weight of an SR20 with intercooler, turbo and piping to compare with this. In my opinion any added weight of the rb20 could be countered by getting a CF hood and moving the battery to the rear of the car. The RB25 is a different story but I dont know of anyone who has done a head to head comparison with various track runs, skid pad test or anything else to show how significant the added weight is on the handling characteristics of the car.
I am still not convinced that the rb20 messes with the weight distribution significantly. a lot of the mass is in the transmission. I also do not have the weight of an SR20 with intercooler, turbo and piping to compare with this. In my opinion any added weight of the rb20 could be countered by getting a CF hood and moving the battery to the rear of the car. The RB25 is a different story but I dont know of anyone who has done a head to head comparison with various track runs, skid pad test or anything else to show how significant the added weight is on the handling characteristics of the car.
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Project240
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Actually, as far as I can tell, all the added mass of the RB20 (the extra ~60 pounds) is in the extra 2 cylinders of the motor. The transmission, as it sits on my garage floor right now, looks no bigger than the KA24DE trans we pulled out of the car. In fact, it looks quite small. The RB25 trans is, of course, a different story.
Nabyar: Come to the RB forum and ask questions. SEARCH the forum first, actually, and then ask questions; there's a lot of good info to be found. The motor is definitely cheaper than an SR (I paid $1500 for my clip, I think Venus is running a special right now for $1200). As far as extra costs you'll run into that you won't have to deal with with a SR swap, there's not too much. The cost definitely adds up, but personally, all the money I've spent on parts for my swap so far I would have had to spend for an SR swap as well (new OEM clutch, filters, exhaust upgrade, suspension upgrades, etc etc).
The costs you will run into for an RB20 swap are these: electric radiator fan (because the stock belt fan won't fit), custom downpipe work (because the downpipe hits the steering shaft; sometimes you can just file some of the downpipe off, while other times it's bad enough that you have to get some welding done at a shop), front sway bar (because the stock one hits the oil pan), and engine mounts if you want them. With the RB20, you can mount the engine perfectly fine with the stock skyline mounts and use the stock driveshaft, but you'll have to cut a section of your hood bracing off to get the hood to close, and your shifter will sit forward an inch or so. So you can blow a few hundred bucks on custom mounts if you don't want to deal with the shifter, hood and sway bar problems, but you don't need to. Other than that, it's just a matter of getting the wiring straight, which can be difficult.
Nabyar: Come to the RB forum and ask questions. SEARCH the forum first, actually, and then ask questions; there's a lot of good info to be found. The motor is definitely cheaper than an SR (I paid $1500 for my clip, I think Venus is running a special right now for $1200). As far as extra costs you'll run into that you won't have to deal with with a SR swap, there's not too much. The cost definitely adds up, but personally, all the money I've spent on parts for my swap so far I would have had to spend for an SR swap as well (new OEM clutch, filters, exhaust upgrade, suspension upgrades, etc etc).
The costs you will run into for an RB20 swap are these: electric radiator fan (because the stock belt fan won't fit), custom downpipe work (because the downpipe hits the steering shaft; sometimes you can just file some of the downpipe off, while other times it's bad enough that you have to get some welding done at a shop), front sway bar (because the stock one hits the oil pan), and engine mounts if you want them. With the RB20, you can mount the engine perfectly fine with the stock skyline mounts and use the stock driveshaft, but you'll have to cut a section of your hood bracing off to get the hood to close, and your shifter will sit forward an inch or so. So you can blow a few hundred bucks on custom mounts if you don't want to deal with the shifter, hood and sway bar problems, but you don't need to. Other than that, it's just a matter of getting the wiring straight, which can be difficult.
I say ride it stock for a while before getting anything swapped. Pay attention to what's missing in the car and it's ride before mods (except minors like CAI). Want more torque/initial power, go RB. A more straight-foward installation and a well driven road to power, go SR. It's good to bone up on as much info as possible before you begin modding. Just read up on both engines and what's involved in the swaps and getting the motor, sr's are plentyful, where as the RB is a little more hard to find. Plus ricers tremble at the mere mention of the SR! :angryfire: (I don't know why....lol)
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Project240
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nabyar wrote:Thanks for all the great replies guys. I really appreciate. Yeah, I probably should've searched but hey, I just wanted both sides of the story (rb and sr guys alike).
Project 240: How is the rb20 as far as wiring up the motor goes?
In the RB forum there's a sticky thread with a step-by-step on wiring an RB25DET into an S13 240SX; wiring the RB20DET is nearly the same. Basically, you have to mate the RB20's engine harnesses with the 240SX engine room harness in 8 different places; there's a lot of cutting and splicing and lengthening involved. It can also be somewhat of a challenge getting the gauge cluster to wire up right; you have to use the RB20 tach or an aftermarket one, and you have to use the KA24DE speedo sensor. You'd run into problems getting it to run right, everyone does, but the RB forum is full of great info and guys who've probably run into the same problem before, and can help you figure out what's wrong.
(I haven't wired my RB20 yet, that comes later this week
)Well, i've driven a couple s13 240's (KA powered), they're a fun little car to drive. I've already had 2 dsm's and i'm kinda looking for something that can still go plenty fast in a straight line, but still have a little bit of handling, and thats why I was considering the RB20. As far as the sr20 goes, I know plenty of people that have their 240's swapped with it that could probably help me so thats also a plus.
Like you guys said, i'll do a little more research, or I might just buy another 1g DSM. Hehe.
Like you guys said, i'll do a little more research, or I might just buy another 1g DSM. Hehe.
tenkawa_akito wrote:and it'll be in the shop a lot! j/k
i had a 1g DSM, and aside from a burnt clutch, blown 1st gear, and leaking valves, it was a nice little car.
I will admit they do require a little more TLC than most cars, but I know enough about them to have them run for a while. I just found my next car (white '92 Talon Tsi AWD -- this will be my 3rd DSM), so maybe next time around i'll go with a 240sx. Like I said, I appreciate the replies guys. I'll still lurk here i'm sure though. :ylsuper
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S13Sil-line
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tenkawa_akito wrote:all the RB blocks will bolt right into the 240 frame with the stock RB mounts, but as was mentioned, they sit funny. They sit forward a few inches, causing the shifter not to sit right among other things. It's recommended to get the McKinney motor mounts because it solves the issue of where the engine sits.
For a straight line, the RB would be my weapon of choice, but I enjoy making left and right turns at high velocities, and the RB paired with the 240 chassis isn't quite suited for the task as well as the stock KA or the SR.
Mckinney mounts are not the only company that make mount kits for this swap http://www.night7racing.com makes seperate mount kits for the rb20,25,26 for the best fitment issuse at $400, and seem of better quallity also. As for getting the clip I don't recommend getting a clip from venus. There have been a number of people with missing parts, terrible compression and other major problems with them. As the wise say "you get what you pay for." Sometimes it may seem like a good deal but in the future it may not pan out. As for wieght distro. Its not that bad. Most people that get an rb are concerened about the overall performance of their car and get a roll cage to stiffen the chassis, which helps on wieght distro. The wieght difference is about the equivilant to having your buddy sit shotty while you race some guy. check out http://www.rb25det.org for all the info you need on rb motors.