240SX newbie
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NISMOracing
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240SX newbie
:help Hey guys,This is my first post on the board. I just got a 1989 5 spd 240SX as my first car. I am only 17, but I am looking into modifying it. Since the car came with an engine stripped from a different 240sx with around 80k miles on it, I am thinking about Turboing the KA by christmas time. Well when I get the money I want to buy the NSport Kit...but I am not sure how good it is and whatnot. Does it include everything needed to get started? Also...I really am quite new to cars and wouldn't even know where to start. I would probably need a garage to help install but I would like to be around and learn about what they are doing. Did you guys install the kits yourselves? Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.:help
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Nismo_Freak
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Go to General Chat in the 240SX section and read my FAQ... then you must learn all there is to know about turbocharging the KA. I would not turbocharge a motor that you know nothing about... thats just plain asking for trouble. Before you get your turbo kit here are a few things to do to prep the motor.
1.) Complete leak-down test of the motor to verify less than 10% leakdown and good compression. 2.) Remove the head and remove the carbon build-up on the combustion chamber and pistons. 3.) Clean out the MAS, Throttle Body, and as far into the intake manifold as you can. 4.) Check the catalytic converter for flow restrictions due to clogs (if you plan to run the OEM cat)5.) Replace the headgasket (for insurence)6.) Replace the Fuel Filter with a new 300Z Twin Turbo Filter
Go to howstuffworks.com and read the "How Turbochargers Work" or find a copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost and read it. Dont be afraid to ask questions. The NSport Kit is adequate and a bunch of turbo KA guys use it. Install is not too hard provided you have an engine hoist, tools, and a basic knowledge of turbo systems, and a few friends to help. Install at a shop would run 500-1500... and you will learn more doing it yourself.
1.) Complete leak-down test of the motor to verify less than 10% leakdown and good compression. 2.) Remove the head and remove the carbon build-up on the combustion chamber and pistons. 3.) Clean out the MAS, Throttle Body, and as far into the intake manifold as you can. 4.) Check the catalytic converter for flow restrictions due to clogs (if you plan to run the OEM cat)5.) Replace the headgasket (for insurence)6.) Replace the Fuel Filter with a new 300Z Twin Turbo Filter
Go to howstuffworks.com and read the "How Turbochargers Work" or find a copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost and read it. Dont be afraid to ask questions. The NSport Kit is adequate and a bunch of turbo KA guys use it. Install is not too hard provided you have an engine hoist, tools, and a basic knowledge of turbo systems, and a few friends to help. Install at a shop would run 500-1500... and you will learn more doing it yourself.
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NISMOracing
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thanks a lot
hey thanks a lot man...although I dont understand half of what you wrote. I will be sure to learn as much as I can before i come back with more questions.
NISMOracing, don't worry when I first got into the 240sx world didn't know what many people were talking about on the forums. As time goes by you'll start to understand a bit more.
I'm also thinking about going KAT by february 2003, and wish you the best of luck in your install. But I do believe it'll be best to adquire a bit more knowledge about motors and turbos before the install... that way if something happens you can troubleshoot it yourself.
And definitely get Maximum Boost or some other book on turbos and read up, research the hell out of the internet and maybe you can tag along at home with someone with a bit more knowledge. You might even consider doing most of the install yourself later on, save a few bucks and have the staisfaction of a DUY job well done.
I'm also thinking about going KAT by february 2003, and wish you the best of luck in your install. But I do believe it'll be best to adquire a bit more knowledge about motors and turbos before the install... that way if something happens you can troubleshoot it yourself.
And definitely get Maximum Boost or some other book on turbos and read up, research the hell out of the internet and maybe you can tag along at home with someone with a bit more knowledge. You might even consider doing most of the install yourself later on, save a few bucks and have the staisfaction of a DUY job well done.
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C-Kwik
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[quote=" Nismo_Freak
1.) Complete leak-down test of the motor to verify less than 10% leakdown and good compression. 2.) Remove the head and remove the carbon build-up on the combustion chamber and pistons. 3.) Clean out the MAS, Throttle Body, and as far into the intake manifold as you can. 4.) Check the catalytic converter for flow restrictions due to clogs (if you plan to run the OEM cat)5.) Replace the headgasket (for insurence)6.) Replace the Fuel Filter with a new 300Z Twin Turbo Filter
[/quote]
A Leakdown test is a good idea in order to gauge the condition of the motor.
Removing the head, and replacing the headgasket is not really necessary unless you have problems with them. If you've been giving your car a steady diet of good name brand fuel this will probably not be much of an issue. The only heads I've ever pulled that had carbon deposits on it was a car that ran on Arco gas. And a headgasket will likely blow only if you detonate too much. And a new headgasket won't solve that problem.
A new cat...bah....for get the cat. Turbo cars hate cats. =)
As far as the Nsport kit is concerned, it is complete. Everything is bolt on, except the oil return line fitting. It's best to have it brazed or welded onto the oil pan. The Nsport kit does use a RevHard manifold though. It's known to be prone to cracking. Couple of things you can do to help is to drill out the bolt holes where it bolts to the head with wider holes. Particularly the holes that are farthest out from the center. Also, you can cut the flange to the heads to seperate the ports to allow some room for expansion.
1.) Complete leak-down test of the motor to verify less than 10% leakdown and good compression. 2.) Remove the head and remove the carbon build-up on the combustion chamber and pistons. 3.) Clean out the MAS, Throttle Body, and as far into the intake manifold as you can. 4.) Check the catalytic converter for flow restrictions due to clogs (if you plan to run the OEM cat)5.) Replace the headgasket (for insurence)6.) Replace the Fuel Filter with a new 300Z Twin Turbo Filter
[/quote]
A Leakdown test is a good idea in order to gauge the condition of the motor.
Removing the head, and replacing the headgasket is not really necessary unless you have problems with them. If you've been giving your car a steady diet of good name brand fuel this will probably not be much of an issue. The only heads I've ever pulled that had carbon deposits on it was a car that ran on Arco gas. And a headgasket will likely blow only if you detonate too much. And a new headgasket won't solve that problem.
A new cat...bah....for get the cat. Turbo cars hate cats. =)
As far as the Nsport kit is concerned, it is complete. Everything is bolt on, except the oil return line fitting. It's best to have it brazed or welded onto the oil pan. The Nsport kit does use a RevHard manifold though. It's known to be prone to cracking. Couple of things you can do to help is to drill out the bolt holes where it bolts to the head with wider holes. Particularly the holes that are farthest out from the center. Also, you can cut the flange to the heads to seperate the ports to allow some room for expansion.
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akinaspeedstar
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im with ya
hey i just bought a 89 240 5 speed too. YOUR NOT ALONE!
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EZcheese15
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Re: im with ya
akinaspeedstar wrote:hey i just bought a 89 240 5 speed too. YOUR NOT ALONE!
Hey man, I just wanted to tell you that your S/N ROCKS! I saw you posted last on the main page, and was like "dude, that's a kick a** name".
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MountNracinN
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akinaspeedstar
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Nismo_Freak
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C-Kwik wrote:A Leakdown test is a good idea in order to gauge the condition of the motor.
Removing the head, and replacing the headgasket is not really necessary unless you have problems with them. If you've been giving your car a steady diet of good name brand fuel this will probably not be much of an issue. The only heads I've ever pulled that had carbon deposits on it was a car that ran on Arco gas. And a headgasket will likely blow only if you detonate too much. And a new headgasket won't solve that problem.
A new cat...bah....for get the cat. Turbo cars hate cats. =)
As far as the Nsport kit is concerned, it is complete. Everything is bolt on, except the oil return line fitting. It's best to have it brazed or welded onto the oil pan. The Nsport kit does use a RevHard manifold though. It's known to be prone to cracking. Couple of things you can do to help is to drill out the bolt holes where it bolts to the head with wider holes. Particularly the holes that are farthest out from the center. Also, you can cut the flange to the heads to seperate the ports to allow some room for expansion.
I was just noting that IF he plans to run a cat he should inspect it... however... a 3" Test pipe is the best thing to do for any turbo car.
Re: 240SX newbie
NISMOracing wrote::help Hey guys,This is my first post on the board. I just got a 1989 5 spd 240SX as my first car. I am only 17, but I am looking into modifying it. Since the car came with an engine stripped from a different 240sx with around 80k miles on it, I am thinking about Turboing the KA by christmas time. Well when I get the money I want to buy the NSport Kit...but I am not sure how good it is and whatnot. Does it include everything needed to get started? Also...I really am quite new to cars and wouldn't even know where to start. I would probably need a garage to help install but I would like to be around and learn about what they are doing. Did you guys install the kits yourselves? Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.:help
since the engine is stripped from another 240sx you would wanna look at wether its SOHC still or DOHC... what year did the KA engine you now have in there come from?Nsport turbo'sif its a SOHC still then without getting the turbo kit you would definately want to look into getting a high lift cam... and since its single cam the only thing you have to worry about is height clearance so that the valves dont hit the piston towards TDC (top dead center) end of either compression or exhaust stroke... the one advantage in this aspect SOHC have over DOHC is lay over... with two cams the angled degree on the lobes may be open too long causing air to not pressurize as it goes in because the exhaust valve is still open
turbo size... not sure what size N sport offers but you'll have VERY slow spool up on a SOHC seeing as its aspiration system from engine block trough the exhaust manifold is limited to one cams pushing all of it... i'd look into a smaller turbo thats lighter and has faster spool up... until you can get your engine built up a lil more i'd recomend low PSI boost.. when you have stronger parts, eg. pistons cranks valve valve guides springs cam... you can the push the PSI limit up... which would probably make you happier...
another thing if you have a SOHC is that you have an 8.5:1 compression... where as the DOHC from 91-94 have 8.7:1... and the 95-98 have 9.7:1the reason the SOHC has low compression is a combination of minimal aspiration ... not as much flow ( say for example 2500cc of air per second at idle... which is about 1000RPM's... each cylinder holding 600cc because its a 240sx... 2397cc engine)
the other disadvantage of a SOHC is it has a low port injection... meaning the clearance between the upper valve block ceiling to the piston at BDC is a lot larger... but the piston does not cover that full stroke leaving larger pockets of air... less compression..
the combination of the both is begging for force induced aspiration... turbo.. super charger... or at the very least freeing up the diameter somewhere along the way like maybe the intake headers or valve clearance
the 91 KA engine added another cam and so it became DOHC.. what i said earlier... making it possible for air flow to take in the same quantity but faster... they still had low port injection
after 95 they made high port injection as well as tuned the cam degree's precisely to the piston stroke.. illiminating the huge gap between the upper valve block ceiling and the block where it seats on top of
with that in mind i hope it helps you in selecting turbo type and what would help you understand where engine power comes from
(this has been a demonstration that 7HE_DON knows sh*t about cars... look for other threads where his knowledge is assumed to be nothing to find out he knows something!!! LoL Eat a prick GodDrivesA240sx LoL)note: i didnt have to answer this lame thread to prove to you something but i did cuz you doubted me.. just cuz i came from a dead forum that had a buncha newbies asking lame questions like these
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Nismo_Freak
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I hope you noticed the fact that you mentioned that with the SOHC motor you would want a high lift cam. N/a cams are detrimental to turbo cars and can create a host of problems. A proper mild lift moderate duration cam (aka Turbo grind) will provide a smoother and quicker spool-up. So in my opinion the stock unit would be best until he can get one custom ground.
Nismo_Freak wrote:I hope you noticed the fact that you mentioned that with the SOHC motor you would want a high lift cam. N/a cams are detrimental to turbo cars and can create a host of problems. A proper mild lift moderate duration cam (aka Turbo grind) will provide a smoother and quicker spool-up. So in my opinion the stock unit would be best until he can get one custom ground.
of course you want to get one custom groundi really didnt mention that cuz i assumed that if you buy a performance cam it wont fit precisely in your carright?all car parts are always gonna be a fractions of a mm off so to fit perfectly under the cam arches, obviously you need to get it grinded at a metal shop
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TrunkMonkey
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Re: Re: 240SX newbie
7HE_DON wrote:if its a SOHC still then without getting the turbo kit you would definately want to look into getting a high lift cam... and since its single cam the only thing you have to worry about is height clearance so that the valves dont hit the piston towards TDC (top dead center) end of either compression or exhaust stroke...
i believe most aftermarket cams come with shims (or the shims are available for purchase) to prevent any clearance issues.
the one advantage in this aspect SOHC have over DOHC is lay over... with two cams the angled degree on the lobes may be open too long causing air to not pressurize as it goes in because the exhaust valve is still open
the only way you would have a problem with overlay is if cam timing is adjusted by someone who does not know what they're doing.
turbo size... not sure what size N sport offers but you'll have VERY slow spool up on a SOHC seeing as its aspiration system from engine block trough the exhaust manifold is limited to one cams pushing all of it...
this is complete crap. turbo spool up is not affected by the number of cams an engine has.
another thing if you have a SOHC is that you have an 8.5:1 compression... where as the DOHC from 91-94 have 8.7:1... and the 95-98 have 9.7:1
89 (early production) 9.1:189 (late production)-90 8.6:191-98 9.5:1
the reason the SOHC has low compression is a combination of minimal aspiration ... not as much flow ( say for example 2500cc of air per second at idle... which is about 1000RPM's... each cylinder holding 600cc because its a 240sx... 2397cc engine)
the SOHC has such a low compression ratio because nissan dropped it from 9.1:1 to 8.6:1 halfway through the 89 models. people complained about having detonation problems and needing to run premium fuel to prevent it. i believe emissions had something to do with it too.
the other disadvantage of a SOHC is it has a low port injection... meaning the clearance between the upper valve block ceiling to the piston at BDC is a lot larger... but the piston does not cover that full stroke leaving larger pockets of air... less compression..the combination of the both is begging for force induced aspiration... turbo.. super charger... or at the very least freeing up the diameter somewhere along the way like maybe the intake headers or valve clearance
god only knows what you're trying to say here.
the 91 KA engine added another cam and so it became DOHC.. what i said earlier... making it possible for air flow to take in the same quantity but faster... they still had low port injection
after 95 they made high port injection as well as tuned the cam degree's precisely to the piston stroke.. illiminating the huge gap between the upper valve block ceiling and the block where it seats on top of
again...god might be able to decipher this crap. i believe all DEs have the same type of port injection (whether it be high or low).
please note...NSport does NOT make turbo kits for the SOHC. try http://www.realnissan.com
Re: Re: Re: 240SX newbie
demcj wrote:
you obviously dunno shiet about compression pockets
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TrunkMonkey
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 240SX newbie
and you my friend, obviously don't know anything.7HE_DON wrote:you obviously dunno shiet about compression pockets
demcj: there is no point in arguing with 7HE_DON... he will just go on and on about how he's right and your wrong and blah blah blah
7HE_DON: STFU, you do know lot's of stuff but you defintely don't know how to convey your knowledge... so... if you can't take the heat (aka flames) get out of the kitchen.
7HE_DON: STFU, you do know lot's of stuff but you defintely don't know how to convey your knowledge... so... if you can't take the heat (aka flames) get out of the kitchen.
i guess i HAVE gotten myself a bad reputation here... thats too bad cuz i thought THE RING was just about flaming for fun and only that... just cuz i entertained you guys for a while there means that you hate me for flaming back?geez that sucks
if you have no idea what sits on top of the engine block then obviously you dunno what im talking about
the long rectangular piece of metals that the cams go on top and the valve seat underneath is the port block.. thats the piece you put the intake and exhaust headers on... underneath there are pockets to which the valve open at an angle... those pockets arnt accounted for in your compression cycle cuz you're compression 9.5:1 ... not 9.5:0 .. you think the cylinder head goes all the up to touch the valve when they're closed?
why dont you TRY explaining to ME then... since i dunno shiet and you would like to teach me something.. yeh?
if you have no idea what sits on top of the engine block then obviously you dunno what im talking about
the long rectangular piece of metals that the cams go on top and the valve seat underneath is the port block.. thats the piece you put the intake and exhaust headers on... underneath there are pockets to which the valve open at an angle... those pockets arnt accounted for in your compression cycle cuz you're compression 9.5:1 ... not 9.5:0 .. you think the cylinder head goes all the up to touch the valve when they're closed?
why dont you TRY explaining to ME then... since i dunno shiet and you would like to teach me something.. yeh?
Re: 240SX newbie
NISMOracing wrote::help Hey guys,This is my first post on the board. I just got a 1989 5 spd 240SX as my first car. I am only 17, but I am looking into modifying it. Since the car came with an engine stripped from a different 240sx with around 80k miles on it, I am thinking about Turboing the KA by christmas time. Well when I get the money I want to buy the NSport Kit...but I am not sure how good it is and whatnot. Does it include everything needed to get started? Also...I really am quite new to cars and wouldn't even know where to start. I would probably need a garage to help install but I would like to be around and learn about what they are doing. Did you guys install the kits yourselves? Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.:help
when seriously modifying a car, don't make any rash decisions. save your money, and make smart mods, and make them in the correct order. don't get anything you don't need untill you have everything you do need. modifying a car can be dangerous and seriously expensive.just my 2 centsa good car will last forever - don't wreck it racing!
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TrunkMonkey
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7HE_DON wrote:if you have no idea what sits on top of the engine block then obviously you dunno what im talking about
i know the cylinder head sits on top of the engine block, but i'm not sure if YOU know what you're talking about.
the long rectangular piece of metals that the cams go on top and the valve seat underneath is the port block.. thats the piece you put the intake and exhaust headers on...
ummm...that long rectangular piece is the cylinder head.
underneath there are pockets to which the valve open at an angle...
those pockets are the combustion chambers.
those pockets arnt accounted for in your compression cycle cuz you're compression 9.5:1 ... not 9.5:0 ..
uh...what?!
you think the cylinder head goes all the up to touch the valve when they're closed?
no. neither do the pistons (since that is what you seem to refering to).
i'm not even sure as to why i bothered to respond to this post. i've read some of the garbage you've spewed in other threads, and this is a waste of time.
oh, and i see you're on the FA forums now. or should i say "both" of you. oh well, at least one of you is behaving.
demcj wrote:
you have me all wrong... just cuz i have a bad repututation here cuz some of you cant take a good flaming back when you start one... then everything else i say becomes bull sh*t just because of those incidentsone of us behaving? yeah.. cuz i havnt ran into someone at FA that wants to have a flame war with me... and when i do i'll assume all his f***** buddies will want to join in... then i'll just get the same reputation there as i did here...besides the fact that i've always had an account at FA.
and yes it seems that you DO know what im talking about... compression pockets in the cylinder head covers... so why the f*ck are you saying that i dunno what im talking about if you're identifying, confirming, or simply restating something based on my post?
im not posting here NE more NE way... bye
its because you word things so convoluted that no one can understand what point you are trying to make..are you using some sort of translator like babblefish to translate from another language? that might be the issue...
you may well have have good points and excellent knowledge...but your ability to convey them is not very good...
i think that is whats happening here
IMO
you may well have have good points and excellent knowledge...but your ability to convey them is not very good...
i think that is whats happening here
IMO
ADAMHU wrote:its because you word things so convoluted that no one can understand what point you are trying to make..are you using some sort of translator like babblefish to translate from another language? that might be the issue...
you may well have have good points and excellent knowledge...but your ability to convey them is not very good...
i think that is whats happening here
IMO
ADAMHU: you already kno my ingulish suxssso sorry praying mantisthat why grass hoppa post link a lot instead of esplain... but sumtime still peepo argue with hard eveedence
FrEaK wrote:Don is getting himself into trouble again...
whatever... you're posting in 240sx zone so im assuming you own one... if you dont, i know you're just being a *** rammer to harrass me.... but for everyone that has been reading my posts and think its jiberish... im good at math so lets expain it in mathimatical terms- (also just pretend cylinder head surface depth and piston crank has nothing to do with this.. just look at the block without its kinetic components)
a 95-98 240sx KA24DE engine has 9.5:1 compressionits displacement is 2397cc
a 92-94 240sx KA24DE engine has 8.6:1 compressionits displacement is ALSO 2397cc
now you can grab bragging rights by calc.'ing the problem out by comparing the two in a binomial equation(9.5)100% of 2397 minus (8.6)100% of 2397 = the difference of displacement in the compression pocket grooved underneath the cylinder block coverbut just by looking at the concept you should be able to understand that the compression is lower in the 92-94 KA engine. Reason is it does not compress at much cc because its located in the compression pocket in the cylinder cover
and thats your difference between high port and low portif you still dont understand just leave the thread... if you wanna flame with me about this goto the ring cuz its pointless trying to argue with me outside the ring (Freak... right?)
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NISMOracing
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ka24de_510
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EZcheese15
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ka24de_510 wrote:just a quick question.if one engine has about a 10% higher compression ratio than the other, everything else being equal, why doesn't it have a higher power output?it seems to me that demcj's explanation of the CRs is a little more accurate.
First of all, the KA24E is rated at 140HP and the KA24DE is rated at 155 HP. So that *is* roughly a 10% increase in power.
Second of all, everything is *not* equal. One is single cam and the other is dual cam. Also, variations in intake manifolds can cause a difference in power like that. Look at the Altima and Maxima. Same engine, everything inside the same, yet the Maxima is rated at 255 HP while the Altima is only 240 HP.