240sx engine swaps

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

heh...good question

Post by **Toad[^_^]** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Chuck Hanlon wrote:OK, guys, it's a deal. But I want to know how Toad got all that power!

Well, It's actually a combination of having no life and divine foresight.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Sorry I asked.

Post by **rbsileighty** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

I never really noticed what you decided on using. The RB's are good motors, but they are not for low end power. If you want the low end grunt I would go with the following:

VQ35DE - very good low end, I have one in my Pathfinder and have driven the Track ed. of the 350Z... sweet motor

VQ30DET - fairly cheap motor (http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au use to have one for 1500 or so), and since it is in the VQ family it might be like its 35 cousin in tq characteristics

VH45DE - never driven one, but I'm sure it has some balls to it... just ask some of the Infiniti guys on the board. This is a motor I would like to see go in a S chassis... just because. As far as specs, it puts out a nice amount of power, and could be workable in weight since it is an aluminum block motor... also a cheap motor at about 1400 on ebay

I like reving to the sky and using small displacement for my power, which is why I do RB20 swaps for the most part. As for getting these motors in the car, I would recommend making a new craddle for the V style motors to get the best location under the hood. This is all opinion, and I hope it helps.

When you start looking for motors, just let me know. I will be happy to help you find one. I don't carry motors, but I'm good at finding them.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

No decision has been made. I have so many options that it will take a lot of research before that will happen. I like the torque of a 3 liter engine, plus a turbo would be interesting=VG30et or dett if the price was right. The sr20det has so little displacement that I worry about daily driving characteristics. Yes, I know they put out the big HP numbers, but I will be driving this thing to work. I also find that the KA24de engine that is in the car turbo's up nicely. That would be the simplest way to go. So, do I go for big numbers at high RPMs, go for big torque with a V-6, or wimp out and build up the engine that is in it? Lot's of thinking to do. But I'm definitely having fun!

Post by **rbsileighty** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Now, remember this is coming from a RB guy, I would like to see you go with a VG or VQ dual cam motor. This is mostly because if you have the time, no one does this swap, and it would be interesting to see it progress. One good thing about this swap is that if you run a VG30DETT then it capable of being 100% legal as long as the motor is the same year or newer than the body since this is a USDM motor.

When I have time and money, I would like to try either a VQ35DETT setup or a VH45DE(TT) setup. I am normally one for balance, but I think it would be fun coming from an engineering standpoint.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

One of the best things about living in Florida is that legality is not a problem here. The younger Bush (our Governor) decided that inspections and emissions tesing were not necessary. About the only thing that he has done that I agree with. VQ35DETT- that is a phantom engine, right? Same with the VH45dett. I think I saw both of those available on e-bay for not much $$ today. That could be real interesting, if a little pricy for what I want to accomplish. But, that would be a real pot full of grunt.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Follow-up: What would it take to twin-turbo one of these? Three rocket scientists and a CIA spook? Or just some common sense and a little help from my new friends?

Post by **rbsileighty** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

That VQ motor has a TT kit for the 350Z from greddy if you wanted a kit setup. Granted there are some variations to the motor depending on what you source it from, but you should be able to "fix" whatever becomes an issue. The VQ also has a centrifical supercharger out there that is front mounted and might be a good fit (less $ too). You could always do a "DIY" turbo setup for either motor.

You would need to speak with the Infiniti guys about doing anything for the VH motor. I do not know what kind of aftermarket is available for this motor. A DIY turbo setup would be cool.

I would recommend dropping the CR somehow (headgasket, pistons etc) on either motor.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

After some thought, I think that if I were to go with one of the new motors, leaving it basically stock would be the best option. I'm not comfotable with trying to be on the cutting edge of new engineering. Just not knowledgeable yet. But, if 400+ HP is easily available from 2.0L, simple math implies 900 would not be too difficult from 4.5. Now THAT is scary!

Post by **karay240** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

To add to what rbsileighty was saying, yes, greddy does have a twin turbo kit out for the 350Z, and yes, it's very nice. However, it's not designed for the S chassis, and may have some clearance issues. The way the frames are designed are different b/w the Z and the S chassis.

My guess is that you may have to have turbo manifolds custom made for your car. I've seen a VE30DETT in a S chassis (besides the one on this thread), and the turbo manifolds (custom, of corse) went forward, and the turbos were placed in front of the motor. This is possible 'cause the S chassis is slightly longer (I think) than the Z chassis (which is wider).

If you're willign to do motor work, I'd suggest going VG30ET (twin turbo the VG30ET) in acheiving your 400hp goal. It'll be far less of a headache trying to fit it in. Also, the initial cost of the motor would be far cheaper than the VG30DETT. Try installing the motor pretty much stock, and work the kinks out before you get all of the aftermarket parts. IF something happened, and you decide not to go w/ the V6 route, you're only out the cost of the motor (not much if you get the VG30ET), turbos, and your time.

Using the older motor should make the wiring job a little less of a pain. This is just an educated guess, since I've never attempted this swap. Also, another perk of getting the VG30ET is that you could purchase a old 300Z (Z31) for around the same price, if not cheaper, than a motor set of the newer 300Z (Z32). Getting the whole car will allow you to see how the motor is running first hand, and you can source any parts that you may need that you might not think of.

Sure, the VG30DETT would have more bragging right, but I think you should go w/ the VG30ET(T)

BTW, 400+ horsepower from a 2 liter motor is not as easy as people make it out to be. 900hp from the nissan V8 has not been done before, and you'll be pretty mmuch on your own in the parts department. I've seen some stuff for them, but nothing more than bolt-on parts. The aftermatket support is nothing compared to the more popular motors that have been listed in this thread.

I'm not 100% sure about this, as I'm not that knowledgeable with the VQ35, but it may not fit in the S chassis. From what I understand, it's wider, and taller than the VG. Again, I'm not sure, and I'd appreciate it if someone could point out whether or not I'm right about this. If you could make it work, though, this motor would be so nice. You'd have more low end torque than you'd know what to do w/

Hope these ramblings have helped you in some way. . . good luck on your project

Post by **rbsileighty** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Chuck Hanlon wrote:After some thought, I think that if I were to go with one of the new motors, leaving it basically stock would be the best option. I'm not comfotable with trying to be on the cutting edge of new engineering. Just not knowledgeable yet. But, if 400+ HP is easily available from 2.0L, simple math implies 900 would not be too difficult from 4.5. Now THAT is scary!

I would love to see you go with the 4.5, that would be awesome! I would say that at least 400hp to the wheels could be attained in N/A form if you had some custom cams and played around with the internals a bit. You might get lucky and some of the parts are interchangeable between motor series (like VG valve springs work on my RB20 motor). Keep us updated with the progress. There is a VH on ebay now for $1400!

Post by **karay240** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

The problem w/ the V8 option is limited option for the transmission. To my knowledge, there isn't a MT that will bolt up to it. I've heared somewhere that it's possible to use either the RB25 transmission or the Z32 transmission, but I really doubt the validity of that. I think that more people would've done it by now if it were that easy. It'd be sweet, though, if you could have a MT V8 in a 240.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

If you're willign to do motor work, I'd suggest going VG30ET (twin turbo the VG30ET) in acheiving your 400hp goal. It'll be far less of a headache trying to fit it in. Also, the initial cost of the motor would be far cheaper than the VG30DETT. Try installing the motor pretty much stock, and work the kinks out before you get all of the aftermarket parts. IF something happened, and you decide not to go w/ the V6 route, you're only out the cost of the motor (not much if you get the VG30ET), turbos, and your time.

Also, another perk of getting the VG30ET is that you could purchase a old 300Z (Z31) for around the same price, if not cheaper, than a motor set of the newer 300Z (Z32). Getting the whole car will allow you to see how the motor is running first hand, and you can source any parts that you may need that you might not think of.

This was my original thought- the VG30e or et

BTW, 400+ horsepower from a 2 liter motor is not as easy as people make it out to be. 900hp from the nissan V8 has not been done before, and you'll be pretty mmuch on your own in the parts department. I've seen some stuff for them, but nothing more than bolt-on parts. The aftermatket support is nothing compared to the more popular motors that have been listed in this thread.

I didn't say I was going to try it, just that the thought was scary. Thanks for your input.

Post by **Toad[^_^]** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

karay240 wrote:BTW, 400+ horsepower from a 2 liter motor is not as easy as people make it out to be.

Depends on how many rotors the engine has I suppose :pface

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

OK toad, I know you are a Mazda nut, but I think I'll stay with a Nissan something. I have seen what the rotarys can do in endurance and drag racing and they are truly awesome, but that tiny motor would be lost in all that room in my SX. Better to put that thing in a 510 or something like that. Could be real interesting-1600 pounds, turbo rotary, hmmm. But not this time around. Thanks for the sick idea.

Post by **extheflow** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

with this "400hp" being thrown around it seems like a no-brainer for an rb25. relatively cheap, straightforward swap(kindof) and definitly capable of horsepower goals without taking the head off. personally, i know torque(cummins) and i know rev to the sky kind of power(honda B18c1 with cams) and the SR20 is definitly on the side of torque. it would be a financially sound swap. but probably the same cost as an RB25 getting to 400hp. and the RB would have a more streetable attitude at that level.

Post by **rbsileighty** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

extheflow wrote:with this "400hp" being thrown around it seems like a no-brainer for an rb25. relatively cheap, straightforward swap(kindof) and definitly capable of horsepower goals without taking the head off. personally, i know torque(cummins) and i know rev to the sky kind of power(honda B18c1 with cams) and the SR20 is definitly on the side of torque. it would be a financially sound swap. but probably the same cost as an RB25 getting to 400hp. and the RB would have a more streetable attitude at that level.

This is a very valid point. I am not one that really cares about power per dollar. I am not looking for the cheapest way to a goal. The engineering aspect is what really draws me into all of these swaps and build-ups. Granted, I do not have a money tree, which is why I work with Nissan instead of Ferrari products. It would be very intriguing to see if a VH would work in a S chassis Nissan.

I may try the VH swap at some point, but if someone does it before me, while I'm on my RB kick, I think that would be great! RB's are not really known for low end grunt, which is what I think he is looking for in this swap... along with novelty. I've never driven one, but I'd imagine a well sorted KA-T would also be good for a fair amount of power and good low end, but again this is not a very unique swap.

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

search the engineering forum. there is at least one australian guy with a twin turbo vh45 in his 240. i think he is working out a m/t setup for it now.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

I believe the transmission that comed with the VH is a 5 speed auto. I could live with that if the engineering is do-able. Anybody here knowlegeable on Nissan automatics?

Post by **Nissan_fanatiC** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Quote »BTW, 400+ horsepower from a 2 liter motor is not as easy as people make it out to be.[/quote]

are you serious? the stock bottom end holds up for about 450-500hp, ive seen it done. ive seen these motors pushin 800hp, in street legal cars. bigger turbo, intercooler, intake, exhaust, and ignition and your well on your way.

id go with a RB26DETT. i've been told the rb26 bolts right in just like the RB25 and the RWD RB25 trans bolts right up. i dunno if its true for the RB26, i ve only seen 1 S14 with RB26, but i know the RB25 bolts right up.

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Chuck Hanlon wrote:I believe the transmission that comed with the VH is a 5 speed auto. I could live with that if the engineering is do-able. Anybody here knowlegeable on Nissan automatics?

iv been through quite a few, but only put one back together(still on the road as far as i know). the vh only came with a 4 speed auto. the newer vk comes with a 5 speed auto. same one thats in the 350z.

Post by **karay240** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

I don't mean easy as in having to build the motor up. . . I meant it in setting it up for RELIABILITY. It's easy to slap a big turbo on, and crank the boost up. I'm talking about setting it up right. If he's doing it himself, he may have a hard time setting it up w/o some prior knowledge of stand-alone, or piggy-backs, and air/fuel, timing etc.Getting 400hp alone isn't the challenge, it's setting it up for drivability (for people who are used to turque). If you have the knowledge of metal work and fabrication, it's easy to go w/ a bigger motor(Z or RB), and not worry about fine tuning it. Yes, the stock bottom end is nearly bulletproof on the SR20, but 450-500hp is pushing the envelope a little too much for my comfort. Why not keep it a little lower, and enjoy that SR of yours a little longer. A major reason that there are people who claim big hp numbers w/o adverse effects is that they either only use it for drag racing (short duration), or they don't drive the cars like they were designed to do. That's just IMHO, but if you want to test your limits, go on ahead.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Karay- I need long term reliability from an engine that does not live on the ragged edge. Torque is good, horsepower is good. But on the daily drive, torque gets me where I want to go. I have built engines with big cams and the need to run a loose TQ, and that was no fun with 366 Cu.In. I'm sure that it is less fun with 122 or 180. When I'm ready to get creative with a Saturday night special, these things will not be a concern, and by that time I will have more knowledge and will build a beast. But not yet. I do want to say to all of you that I really appreciate and enjoy your advice and discussion on this topic. You have opened my eyes to a lot of options and freely given a lot of information. Thanks

Post by **StorminMatt** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Iwould personally like to see a VQ 240SX. Personally, turbos are not my cup of tea. And I am sure there are others out there who think as I do. Unlike Hondas, fast allmotor 240s seem to be about as rare as rare gets (if they even do really exist). A VQ (or even Q45) swap would certainly more than make this a possibility.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

All motor is a true accomplishment, but turbos can achieve such numbers that they cannot be ignored. I am an old hot rodder and am fascinated by those possibilities. I know what I don't know, and that makes it even more interesting for me. I will only stop learning when I am DEAD!!

Post by **StorminMatt** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Chuck Hanlon wrote:All motor is a true accomplishment, but turbos can achieve such numbers that they cannot be ignored. I am an old hot rodder and am fascinated by those possibilities. I know what I don't know, and that makes it even more interesting for me. I will only stop learning when I am DEAD!!

On the other hand, it is nice to know that a turbo is not an absolute necessity when it comes to going fast. Just as it is nice to know that you are as fast (if not faster) than the turbo guys, yet you don't have a turbo.

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Point well made.

Post by **Toad[^_^]** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

Chuck Hanlon wrote: I will only stop learning when I am DEAD!!

That's the attitude I try to live by...

Post by **Chuck Hanlon** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:17 pm

To reply to StorminMatt- One point to consider is that a turbo only builds power when under load. If you are not on it, there is no real penalty for having it. An NA engine that makes big power requires you to deal with the big cams, sluggish low end, fouling plugs, etc., all the time. I realize that NOS is the ultimate for non-interference for normal driving, but I don't want the shock it places on everything when engaged. So the turbo(s) looks good to me right now.

240sx engine swaps

Nissan Forums

Infiniti Forums

Datsun Forums

Technical Forums

Classifieds / Marketplace

Nissan Motorsports

General Forums