240sx engine question upgrade

[sci0n]

Allright I'm not a complete idiot. I know people drop the SR20DET in here, and by no means is this meant to start a flame war between KA, redtop, blacktop etc...

We get stuck with a KA truck motor here in our 240's. In Japan, they get the SR20DET. So here, we would upgrade to a SR20DET, but my question is, which engine would they upgrade to in Japan? That seems like a much more feasible choice, to just upgrade to what the Stock JDM 240sx owner would upgrade to. See what I'm saying? I can't really find any threads on this, so I made a new one.

Thanks.

[slipnfall]

The RB series engines would be my guess.

[mynismo]

they don't have to drop in anything. they just mod what's in their car.

the only reason we drop in the sr's is because the ka's suck.

[D1SR240]

just because it comes from the factory doesn't mean you have to change it.

[hannibal]

I would guess the whole SR swap thing started because people kept saying how much the KA 'sucks'. But if you open your eyes, you would see that the KA is a decent motor with potential.

If a Japanese guy was going to swap, my guess it would be an RB engine like slipnfall said. With that being said, its probably less common because he can recognize the potential of his stock motor. (forget KA vs SR, I think most agree the RB is king)

I think most guys (US and Japan) swap just to say they have motor that didnt come with the car.

[IveBeenBad]

The Japanese put 3 rotors on mopeds so I can only imagine in a 240...

[mynismo]

I think most guys (US and Japan) swap just to say they have motor that didnt come with the car.

ahhh, no. we swap in the sr because the ka sucks.

i don't believe jap guys swap anything in their cars. they know what an sr20det is and what it can do. rb's throw the car's handling completely off, and why would they swap in another motor when they already have the sr in their hands.

and when i say the ka sucks, it sucks because stock, its a pitiful piece of crap. the sr..... it isn't.

[sci0n]

I just found out my girlfriends brother has this Nissan NX SR20DE (not T) so we were talking about engines and motors and such. It was hard to understand him at times because of his extreme ADHD and yelling. But basically he reccomended the Black Top SR20DET, he said that the RB swap would be too expensive, as far as fittings and parts go. He also said the SR20DET is basically the RB with 2 cylanders or valves chopped off (can't remember) and that the SR20DET has great potential. So I'm just gonna go with the blacktop.

[marshun]

well the reason they dont swap is cause theyre better at tuning than the US is.

imagine if we had tuners like them over here. you'd see KA's with lots of power and even more after market support. if one of those companies happened to have a counterpart here, we'd have some crazy KA's runnin around. that is IF their store in the US happened to be open as long as the one in japan.

but then it didnt happen. so we're either trying to do the KA or the SR route.

[TurboB15Sentra]

It's realy funny to see how many people knock the KA motor... 99% of those people have never modded one, or even seen one modded. The KA is not a crap motor... at all... Matter of fact.. pound for pound, the KA will produce a fatter powerband, and more peak power than any SR would. This means, take the same turbo, injectors, etc.. and put them both on an SR and a KA. The KA will outperform the SR. The KA will handle up to 400whp in stock form.. as long as the engine is tuned correctly!! The biggest problem with turbo KA's, is that the people turboing them, don't know what they are doing. Sloppy tuning will kill a motor faster than lard and coconut oil will kill you. There are more plug and play tuning devices available for the SR.. which makes it easier for those guys to tune. The KA crowd is starting to have more options though.. One of the guys on Fresh Alloy, is prototyping a JWT ECU setup.. with 96lb injectors and Lightning MAF. He made 540whp and 480ft lbs of TQ... at 25psi on a T66!

I'm not saying that the SR is a crap motor.. I love the SR.. It's my bread and butter pretty much. But, I'm so sick of people who don't know what they're talking about.. saying that the KA is a "truck motor". For the person looking to make 350-400whp... they don't need to do anything but build a well tuned kit for thier KA. SR swaps are like B series swaps for Honda guys.. That's sad.. and that's what the 240sx crowd has turned into.

Travis

[tar0icy_w/tapioca]

uhhhhh....the silvia series was made as entry level sport car for the japanese market, because of how expensive it would be to sell here state side (with the turbo engine and everything) they decide to swap out the engine(N/A SR20 is to slow for US market, and it was already available for the 200sx) to lower the MSRP of the car, and make it affordable, not to mention easier to pass emission sooo in japan people that actually drive silvia dont swap their engine, they tune it, but i've not seen a lot of really high horse power SR because the fact is japanese guys use it for drifting, no need to have 500hp for that, and no they wouldn't swap a RB into it because they have skyline there that they do build and drag race allday, that's y they develope the GTS (RWD skyline) and GTR/GTR-spec V, though way back before drifting hit state side there were a couple of guys in japan that was featured in magazines because they have swap out their SR20 (and i'm talking about non-turbo SR20, there are those too u know) for a 240sx because the KA has for power when N/A, and they build on that platform, which brings me back to state side now where the SR is being treated as a HP monster, which it can be if u sink enough money into it (the engine is engineered same as the evo engine), but there is no point SILVIA IS NOT A DRAG RACING PLATFORM, and the RB swap is taken place because there is no skyline platform here in the US, and the closest thing that people can get to it is putting a RB in the 240sx, though if u really want to do it u would get a 300zx and drop the spec V II engine into it (but then u'll be affraid of people hating on u for having too much money, and you'll feel silly for having spending too much money to sooth ur ego).....PSthis is just my expressed opinion, u dont have to like it

[rico05]

The KA is a great engine. After mucho research I ahve done lately, I can see that all I have been saying against the KA is all wrong. Piston oil squirters, iron block, DOHC (sorry...no KAE love here guys), the list goes on and on. YES the KA will give a MUCH nicer powerband than the SR because of the larger diplacement. YES less turbo and less boost will see the same HP on a KA because of the bigger displacement. Some things that I do not like about the KA (and the SR for that matter): Hydraulic lifters, over square, not smooth (because it is a 2.4l 4 w.o balance shafts), weak rods. But all in all, the KA is a good motor. The SR is REALLY not that much better than the KA to be honest (other than more smooth). Now the CA...that is a MAN'S motor

[D1SR240]

The KA will handle up to 400whp in stock form.. as long as the engine is tuned correctly!! Travis

what do you mean by "stock form"

[TurboB15Sentra]

what do you mean by "stock form"

Stock means stock... Maybe a headgasket if you are overly cautious. Same can be said for the SR. The broken parts that you see, are a result of poor tuning.. Not crap parts.

[TurboB15Sentra]

The KA is a great engine. After mucho research I ahve done lately, I can see that all I have been saying against the KA is all wrong. Piston oil squirters, iron block, DOHC (sorry...no KAE love here guys), the list goes on and on. YES the KA will give a MUCH nicer powerband than the SR because of the larger diplacement. YES less turbo and less boost will see the same HP on a KA because of the bigger displacement. Some things that I do not like about the KA (and the SR for that matter): Hydraulic lifters, over square, not smooth (because it is a 2.4l 4 w.o balance shafts), weak rods. But all in all, the KA is a good motor. The SR is REALLY not that much better than the KA to be honest (other than more smooth). Now the CA...that is a MAN'S motor

KA doesn't have hydraulic lifters.. It uses bucket shims. You have to choose the correct shim to get the desired clearance. This is much better than hydraulic lifter/rocker arm like the SR uses. If the KA had a shorter stroke crank put in it... it could rev WAY higher safely.

Travis

[MainEvent212]

mynismo. you are one ignant bastid...

ont eh other hand, the KA24DE is a very potent motor when put to the test and can actually make more hp/torque then a SR20...the SR20 is a good motor too, but it's no better then the KA24DE...most people say "oh an SR20 is built for turbo, the KA needs to be rebuilt for turbo"...no, the KA can put out more power at 7psi on a turbo kit w/ stock internals, then a stock SR at higher boost...

[PhaneSoul]

S13 KA POWER, S13 KA POWER, YEAAAAAAAA

Not only is the KA equal if not abouve the SR in performance terms, it could also cost less. since you dont have to rebuild the internals to turbo it, (if your a decent tuner) you could buy a ka24de in very good condition, turbo it for how ever much turbo's are going for these days, and boom, you could put down as much hp as a sr.

the sr on the other hand, you have to buy the sr, 2500, install it, make sure everythings hunky dori. and THEN you could run it, not to mention, sr's are illegal in emmision states. (not that the turbo'ed ka isnt)

but it gets better. get a ka for 500$ if less, rebuild the internals and you have a nice runnin N/A engine right there. so what if its a truck engine. ****er will still haul ***.

/end pointless post

[TurboB15Sentra]

ahhh, no. we swap in the sr because the ka sucks.

i don't believe jap guys swap anything in their cars. they know what an sr20det is and what it can do. rb's throw the car's handling completely off, and why would they swap in another motor when they already have the sr in their hands.

and when i say the ka sucks, it sucks because stock, its a pitiful piece of crap. the sr..... it isn't.

And you speak this from experience? Have any pics of your KA turbo setup(s)?

[mynismo]

i dont see jap guys swapping in the ka

[rico05]

Because their stock motors are boosted already. Like it was said before: there is little aftermarket for the KA compared to the SR. Espcially over there I imagine. I heard Yashio Factory tried a KA a while back, but there was so little for it, they put the project on the back burner.

TurboB15Sentra: Thank you for correcting me. My main point was both the SR and KA have inferior valve trains compared to the CA Cam on bucket = teh win.

[i2ice4m3]

would someone really swap out their motor for one that has less power out of the box, with little aftermarket support in their area? didnt think so. Even IF the KA has more potential, would it be great enough to justify spending money to swap the motor, make up the stock hp disadvantage, AND upgrade? IMO, no.

[TurboB15Sentra]

Because their stock motors are boosted already. Like it was said before: there is little aftermarket for the KA compared to the SR. Espcially over there I imagine. I heard Yashio Factory tried a KA a while back, but there was so little for it, they put the project on the back burner.

TurboB15Sentra: Thank you for correcting me. My main point was both the SR and KA have inferior valve trains compared to the CA Cam on bucket = teh win.

But that's what I'm getting at.. the KA DOES have cam on bucket! It just won't rev because the rod/stroke ratio sucks, and the crank has harmonics issues at around 72-7300rpm, which can lead to crank failure. No need to realy spin it up that high though.. when you can make your power early on in the powerband.

Travis

[rico05]

Going to look at KA cams....

[rico05]

Comes back and slaps self in head....

D'oH!

KA has good valve train. Bad rod ratio. CA still better. Bore = Stroke is teh win;)

To be honest, I never paid much attention to my KA. I knew I was going to swap it, and when the timing chain farted on me I bought my CA. When the chain finally ate through my head and my motor fried, I had my CA in the car after about 2 weeks

[TurboB15Sentra]

What's cool about the KA.. is that you can take a crank from a KA20DE (JDM model), and swap it into your KA24 block. This will give a WAY better rod/stroke ratio, and the ability to rev to around 8500-8800rpm.. with the right springs/cams of course.

Travis

[IveBeenBad]

What's cool about the KA.. is that you can take a crank from a KA20DE (JDM model), and swap it into your KA24 block. This will give a WAY better rod/stroke ratio, and the ability to rev to around 8500-8800rpm.. with the right springs/cams of course.

Travis

WHats even cooler is just taking a motor thatrs like that STOCK and putting it in your car because you know its enginerred to last...

[TurboB15Sentra]

I don't think that way... I own a performance shop that specializes in KA and SR powerplants. I have worked extensively with both.. and I can say that both are fine for 99% of what people will want out of them for a street car in stock form. 400whp and 400ft lb's of TQ is impressive.. and when it's TUNED CORRECTLY, reliability is a great thing.

Travis

[IveBeenBad]

I don't think that way... I own a performance shop that specializes in KA and SR powerplants. I have worked extensively with both.. and I can say that both are fine for 99% of what people will want out of them for a street car in stock form. 400whp and 400ft lb's of TQ is impressive.. and when it's TUNED CORRECTLY, reliability is a great thing.

Travis

I prefer nissans highly payed engineers to some no-name tuner. How much do you wanna bet the engineers that designed the SR sat around and pushed 20 or so lbs of boost through it for a while before they said "this thing is ready".

Besides the SR is a square motor, it revs faster and higher. The only advantage a KA has is displacement which really doesnt mean much to me. I would much rather have a fast responding SR than a sluggish 400hp KA. Not everyone is shooting for 400hp.

In an auto-x you are more than likely never going to use that 400hp to its fullest, and the SR with a properly sized turbo will give you better power delivery.

[MoToR mOnKeY]

Taroicy/Tapioca drink is right! Nissan wanted to create a car that was compact, lightweight, AFFORDABLE (in japan), powerful, daily driven, entry level racer car, with a 4 cyl engine that puts out 205PS. This was back in 89 I belive (correct me pls). So tell that to the honda guys! BACK IN 89 <~~~ (i just had to say it). anyways there are rumors in japan saying that the SR20DET is rated 500HP (rumors people just rumors dont get yer panties in a bunch) when u add the exhaust, intake, etc. u restrict all that HP. so if this rumor is true then the Japanese dont really need to swap anything. But I wouldnt swap if i was in Japan i'll just keep it the way it is.only the honda guys swap motors like its a pair of tighty whiteys. The KA doesnt have potential, it's already there! I think everybody has their mind focused on the word TRUCK ENGINE. Thats why nothing ever gets started on the KA24DEngine......... But wait the Japanese can swap a motor other than the CA18 to a SR20 or a SR20 to a RB25 or 26. there is a motor in between the SR and RB and its not the VG or VQ series. but its an actual production engine called the SR21DETmade by Tomei and i think TODA also makes one too.

[IveBeenBad]

Taroicy/Tapioca drink is right! Nissan wanted to create a car that was compact, lightweight, AFFORDABLE (in japan), powerful, daily driven, entry level racer car, with a 4 cyl engine that puts out 205PS. This was back in 89 I belive (correct me pls). So tell that to the honda guys! BACK IN 89 <~~~ (i just had to say it). anyways there are rumors in japan saying that the SR20DET is rated 500HP (rumors people just rumors dont get yer panties in a bunch) when u add the exhaust, intake, etc. u restrict all that HP. so if this rumor is true then the Japanese dont really need to swap anything. But I wouldnt swap if i was in Japan i'll just keep it the way it is.only the honda guys swap motors like its a pair of tighty whiteys. The KA doesnt have potential, it's already there! I think everybody has their mind focused on the word TRUCK ENGINE. Thats why nothing ever gets started on the KA24DEngine......... But wait the Japanese can swap a motor other than the CA18 to a SR20 or a SR20 to a RB25 or 26. there is a motor in between the SR and RB and its not the VG or VQ series. but its an actual production engine called the SR21DETmade by Tomei and i think TODA also makes one too.

That would be the SR22DET. Its a stroker kit that cost more than a front clip, and also destroys the SRs square characteristics.