240 2JZ IDEA!!! need suggestions

[cobra tom]

The car is a 89 240sx 5spd coupe. My thought is to do the typical 2jz/r154 swap. I have a good friend that is the fabricator at Boost Logic {build the worlds fastest 6-speed supras} Talking to him and he is telling me with a T71,272 cams,aem ecu,1200cc injectors and fuel system I could make 750whp on e85 and 850whp on race gas. Im not a road racer or drag racer. Im a roll racer so the launchs will be from 40-60mph but it will be on tire or dr's and brake boosting or 2 stepped.What will need to be done to the car for it to handle that kind of power? rear end?axles? frame stiffing?

[DJ Raijin]

in all honesty, even with a completely upgraded drivetrain and MTs, it'll be really hard to keep that car straight.

A stock supra is pretty quick. a stock 2jz in a 240 is even quicker. compare the weight of the 2 vehicles. the supra is way heavier than a 240 could ever be (without taking out the backseats and just loading it up with concrete blocks).

The guys with LS1 240s say that even under the load of a stock LS1, it's hard to drive straight or take off without burning out.

Think of this more in terms of hp per lb. Now think of how little resistance there is for that much power to haul that little weight around.

Now you say "I race from a roll" so I'm assuming highway racing. Which is highly illegal and not a good idea, nor is it condoned on this forum.

If you are talking about drag racing, 850whp is too much for that light of a chassis. Even with a full roll cage, taking the all the body panels off and reinforcing every weld on the frame of the car, it still wont be enough. You'll probably have to move up to a 9" solid rear axle rear end to actually handle that much power.

Or are you just talking about a dyno queen? Dyno queens don't have to be driveable. They never travel more than a couple yards and the majority of their life they collect dust.

A 240SX with that kinda power is not very streetable. Sure it's street legal but it's not streetable . That car won't be fun to drive and while doing a wheel stand at every stop sign and red light may be A-OK for this , it will get you countless tickets and eventually you will lose your license.

tl;dr - it's a bad idea. if you go 2JZ, stick with a BPU setup.

[cobra tom]

in all honesty, even with a completely upgraded drivetrain and MTs, it'll be really hard to keep that car straight.

A stock supra is pretty quick. a stock 2jz in a 240 is even quicker. compare the weight of the 2 vehicles. the supra is way heavier than a 240 could ever be (without taking out the backseats and just loading it up with concrete blocks).

The guys with LS1 240s say that even under the load of a stock LS1, it's hard to drive straight or take off without burning out.

Think of this more in terms of hp per lb. Now think of how little resistance there is for that much power to haul that little weight around.

Just curious but how are the 2jz 240's traction at the same hp level as the ls1's. V8 make very very flat torque curves causing extreme wheels spin. I understand the power to weight thats why Im looking to build the this car. But Im not looking to build a car that traps 115-123. Im looking to build a car that traps 145-155. Im asking questions about the car itself because I dont know much about them and I am trying to learn. Like how wide a tire I can fit under the car and how much power the diff and axles will take. Is the cars chassis real weak or pretty strong? I have friends that are fabrications so I can do alot of things. The guy that is helping me to the swap has a 2jzge/r154 swap in a 86 300zx that weighs 2875 with him in it. The car makes 690rwhp on race gas and roll races on a 255/50r16 mt drag radials with air lift bags in the rear to plant the rear. And the car does really well for that much power to weight on such a small tire.

Now you say "I race from a roll" so I'm assuming highway racing. Which is highly illegal and not a good idea, nor is it condoned on this forum.

I respect yall not condoning highway racing/illegal racing on this forum and I will not talk about it here. But I do respect yall knowledge which is why Im asking questions about the 240.

If you are talking about drag racing, 850whp is too much for that light of a chassis. Even with a full roll cage, taking the all the body panels off and reinforcing every weld on the frame of the car, it still wont be enough. You'll probably have to move up to a 9" solid rear axle rear end to actually handle that much power.

Yeah I've done the drag racing thing for 12 years. To destructive on the cars and parts. Your right launching a car with 850whp would require all you stated due to the shock to the driveline and car going from dead stop. Roll racing does not shock the system near as bad. But a cage is not a bad idea.

Or are you just talking about a dyno queen? Dyno queens don't have to be driveable. They never travel more than a couple yards and the majority of their life they collect dust.

Not sure if you have heard of boost logic. I will post a video of there 6 speed supra that runs 7.9@189. They dont build dyno queens they build cars that make power and haul ***! Its their setup I would be running with their tuner. So they numbers stated would be reality and they would be put to threw the paces.

tl;dr - it's a bad idea. if you go 2JZ, stick with a BPU setup.

That is ok for some but for me it would be taking quiet a few steps backwards. I have already owned a 9 sec sn95 gt mustang,11 sec z28 and currently have a 03 cobra the has a pt76 turbo setup on it {not finished}. But had a 2.2L kenne bell on it that made 600rwhp on pump gas before. I want something nasty and I think a 2jz 240 would be sick! with big power!

Modified by cobra tom at 8:54 AM 2/13/2009
Modified by cobra tom at 8:56 AM 2/13/2009

[DJ Raijin]

Just curious but how are the 2jz 240's traction at the same hp level as the ls1's. V8 make very very flat torque curves causing extreme wheels spin. I understand the power to weight thats why Im looking to build the this car. But Im not looking to build a car that traps 115-123. Im looking to build a car that traps 145-155. Im asking questions about the car itself because I dont know much about them and I am trying to learn. Like how wide a tire I can fit under the car and how much power the diff and axles will take. Is the cars chassis real weak or pretty strong? I have friends that are fabrications so I can do alot of things. The guy that is helping me to the swap has a 2jzge/r154 swap in a 86 300zx that weighs 2875 with him in it. The car makes 690rwhp on race gas and roll races on a 255/50r16 mt drag radials with air lift bags in the rear to plant the rear. And the car does really well for that much power to weight on such a small tire.

Ok I'm not dealing with a kid. Good Just trying to weed out the young'uns.

Furthermore on the subject of traction, a 240SX with a 2JZ in it is probably going to weight around 2800lbs, less with any sort of weight reduction (and estimated around 2700 with an LS1 in it). With the 300 ft/lbs that a stock LS1 produces, the reports I've read are that wheel spin in all gears is very prominent. Even a slightly sudden increase in throttle begins to put the rear end of the car sideways. Sudden tromping on the pedal induces wheel stands. Now understand, this is with a mere 300 hp and 300 tq. Even the LS1Z guys, say that 3rd and 4th gear burn outs are easy with a stock LS1. Remember, a Camaro weighs around 3800lbs. The weight combined with the solid rear helps keep the power to the ground a lot easier. An LS1 swapped 300ZX still only weighs around 3300lbs.

Now let's almost triple those numbers as well as the introduction of a boost threshold. Driving under boost will be fine more likely than not, for street driving. But if/when threshold is broken, it's going to induce a much more violent wheel spin. I'm sure you understand that turbochargers will add torque too, only now you have a peakier power curve (when compared to supercharging and NA applications). Once that peak is reached, it's going to be all hell breaking loose.

I know a little more about Zs than the 240s. I'm confident at power levels exceeding 400whp the rear axles will need to be replaced or strengthened. I know Mazworx, which is a prominent Nissan performance fabrication shop in Orlando Florida, offers a Ford 9" drag racing rear end. The main focus of their site is for the S chassis, so I can only assume they built it for drag racing 240SXs. But, swapping to solid rear means it'll handle like a brick. In which case, you might as well just get a fox body mustang or a camaro, unless you're hell bent on using a 240SX for strip racing.

I've never heard of a drag strip that allows roll racing. That would be something to see, all the turbocharged Honda guys would be loving that place I'm sure. Anywho, if you want to push insane numbers like that, you're better off with a Z. A 240 is like a less feminine Miata in that it's not really a car designed with Big Numbers and Straight Line Performance in mind. 400hp in a 240SX will propel it quite effectively and keep streetability to a maximum. Or is this car NOT going to be street legal?

[cobra tom]

Furthermore on the subject of traction, a 240SX with a 2JZ in it is probably going to weight around 2800lbs, less with any sort of weight reduction (and estimated around 2700 with an LS1 in it). With the 300 ft/lbs that a stock LS1 produces, the reports I've read are that wheel spin in all gears is very prominent. Even a slightly sudden increase in throttle begins to put the rear end of the car sideways. Sudden tromping on the pedal induces wheel stands. Now understand, this is with a mere 300 hp and 300 tq. Even the LS1Z guys, say that 3rd and 4th gear burn outs are easy with a stock LS1. Remember, a Camaro weighs around 3800lbs.

Very true.... i agree traction is gonna be a problem. but turbo cars require a load to produce boost correct? and a load requires the suspension to be loaded causing the tires to dig in before it hits full boost and the cars weight to be shifted over the tires. vs insta torque the v8 produces

The weight combined with the solid rear helps keep the power to the ground a lot easier.

Thats where the air lift air bags come in. They use then in the eibach drag launch kits for mustangs to make the car launch flat. You can get them in any size and they cost around $60. My buddies 2jz 300zx had problems with traction. when the car squated the tires would tow in drasticly only putting alittle over half of the tire's tread patch on the ground. We installed some air bags inside the springs and run them with about 5-10psi on the street. Turns the rearend into a solid axle and puts the whole tire on the ground.

An LS1 swapped 300ZX still only weighs around 3300lbs.

??

Now let's almost triple those numbers as well as the introduction of a boost threshold. Driving under boost will be fine more likely than not, for street driving. But if/when threshold is broken, it's going to induce a much more violent wheel spin. I'm sure you understand that turbochargers will add torque too, only now you have a peakier power curve (when compared to supercharging and NA applications). Once that peak is reached, it's going to be all hell breaking loose.

Need alot of tire. I have been reading you can get a 305 under the car with some rolling and pulling. And they make some sticky tires now a days. Have you seen the new hoosiers. Plus I dont have to go wide I can go tall.

I know a little more about Zs than the 240s. I'm confident at power levels exceeding 400whp the rear axles will need to be replaced or strengthened.

Ive heard there are alot of upgrades for the 240's to handle those power levels.

I've never heard of a drag strip that allows roll racing.

There is not a drag strip that allows it. Like I stated before I will not talk about that.

A 240 is like a less feminine Miata in that it's not really a car designed with Big Numbers and Straight Line Performance in mind.

think this guy would disagree...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKwdnllvB9Y

Or is this car NOT going to be street legal?

ahh hmmm..... it will be street legal and driven on the street alot.
Modified by cobra tom at 9:10 PM 2/13/2009

[cobra tom]

well my deal fell threw on the 89 coupe so Im gonna hold out from a s14 to build.

[cobra tom]

I curious as to the traction problems you are talking about the guys with stock ls1's in 240's are having. Here is a guy from this forum with a cammed ls1 at the track on what look to be street tires.http://www.youtube.com/user/streetelite240

and with that cam he is probably putting down 400-420whp. Looks like its doing alright on the street

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v..._page

[cnichols]

Don't pay much attention to someone who doesn't own the car and has no actual experience with it.

My S14 (shown in the youtube vids you posted) has no cage and no chassis strengthening or aftermarket axles or diff....all stock. W/ a cam and 275/40/17 Nitto Drag Radials I went 123mph in the quarter and drove it on the street all the time. I took it on road trips, drove it in the rain...you name it.

[cobra tom]

Don't pay much attention to someone who doesn't own the car and has no actual experience with it.

My S14 (shown in the youtube vids you posted) has no cage and no chassis strengthening or aftermarket axles or diff....all stock. W/ a cam and 275/40/17 Nitto Drag Radials I went 123mph in the quarter and drove it on the street all the time. I took it on road trips, drove it in the rain...you name it.

Im learning alot from people on here and freshalloy. Thanks for your responses via email. I drove my buddies 2jzge/r154 swap 86 300zx this weekend on 275/17's true street radials. Car was on its e85 tune 605whp. Usually the car rides around on dr's. His waiting on his new ones so he just threw the street tires back on to go have some fun. Let me just say that thing is insane!!!! I did a 3rd gear 40 punch just to prepare myself for what would happen. The car came into boost at 70-75 and smoked the tires up to 100 and lifted. Its was wicked. Talking to him he says on his race gas tune 690whp his 255/50r16's bite in pretty good. I also drove my buddies 92 turbo 240sx {282whp} with coilovers,strut braces and z32 tt brake upgrades and 350z front rotors. I enjoyed it alot. Car handled like it was on rails and stopped like nobodys business. I also went to another buddies shop and checked out a car that was shipped in from cali to have a single turbo setup do. It was a 97 240sx with a 2jzgte auto swap. Very nice setup. Looked right at home. They are doing a gt42r and are looking to get 700whp threw the auto.

I have decided I'm gonna build a 95-98. Im gonna do a z32 tt diff with axles to kill some of the gearing. I believe its 4.08<3.69. the turbo is gonna be a garrett 4202 74mm. Im gonna due z32 brakes out back and z32 calipers up front with 350z rotors upfront. Im also gunna run spl's aluminum bushings in the irs cradle and rear diff along with there control arms. I have not decided what coil over setup Im gunna do yet.
Modified by cobra tom at 2:33 PM 2/23/2009

[cobra tom]

here are some pics from my buddy's shop "BOOST LOGIC"

WORLD FASTEST FULL WEIGHT 6SPD SUPRA 8.47@17786 300ZX with NA-T 2JZGE/R154 SWAP92 KA-T 240SX---- If you look at the back of the pic you will see the fastest irs supra in the world7.7x@183FASTEST 6SPD SUPRA IN THE WORLD 7.91@188

[mexicanracer03]

good luck bro. let us know what you decide