220 ft/lbs of N/A Power?
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2black240s
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:05 am
- Car: black s13,black s14
220 ft/lbs of N/A Power?
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get 50 more ft/lbs of torque or so out of a ka24de? I'll be taking it in for a full rebuild(it's got 150k on it) and i'm wondering what i can have put in for some more torque. Header? cams?Everything i've found is for ka-t's, and i'm not going that big. Any input is appreciated.
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DjPantsSpecR
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:49 pm
- Car: 93 Nissan MS13
92 Nissan RMS13
hey, whats up little falls. and welcome to NICO
50 more ft/lbs eh... based on your 220 ft/lbs comment i'm assuming you mean that in crank horsepower. So basically what you want is 190 ft/lbs or torque.
People are seriously struggling to make 190whp without spending an arm and a leg. And since the equation used to measure horsepower is (torque x rpm)/5252, unfortunately your peak torque will probably occur at 5252, and you're going to be hard up to make 190wtq by then.
If you somehow can figure out how to make 190wtq before 5252 i would say you've got some serious spending cash...
now if you make 190wtq after 5252 rpms you'll start to make horsepower numbers, starting with the intersection of the two curves (which is at 5252 on EVERY dyno chart due to the definition of horsepower as measured on dynos) you'll make equal torque and hp, thats just definition. so now if you make that same 190wtq at the top of your rev limiter, which i'll assume is an s13, so we'll call it 7k. At 7k, and 190wtq you're making about 254 wheel horse.
if you could spin it out to 8k, at 190wtq you'd be making 290 wheel ponies.
nothing short of a full race team and a lot of money can get you there at this point. Can someone do it? of course, its just very, very expensive, not to mention unstreetable.
i've really never heard of anyone making 190wtq before 5k, but i'm sure its been done by someone, somewhere.
I would probably start with some custom pistons. I've heard of all kinds of tips and tricks that people who know keep secret. so secret it makes me forget them... But my favorite off the shelf choice comes right from your Nissan dealership. Get the 89 SOHC pistons in a 90mm. These with rings only cost to me about 350. then get the appropriate machine work to get a little closer to 2.5 liter. The early pistons will need to be flycut as well, but they net a compression of about 11.7:1 (iirc from a chart i lost about the 90mm early pistons) Much higher compression, although for your goals it still may not be enough
You would need a custom header built, preferably designed by an engineer with an actual program for predicting power output (we do have those, i'm not experienced, but other team members are) to make power in whatever rpm you choose. Then it would be matched with an exhaust, which is much less complex to make. Then an intake manifold would need to be made with either different runner diameters or lengths, or both, with a new plenum, new injectors, probably a Q45 TB while you're doing all that, an intake ram (or as its usually called, an intake pipe) with a cold air box and a tuned length would cap off that side. Then the cams which will need to be custom ground, as well as many hours on the dyno with whatever tuning tool you choose to use. I've probably even left out some things, but my point is, its a lot of work and a lot of money... maybe 190 whp is a better goal? still then you need ALOT, but you dont need all the custom parts, its almost possible to do with bolt-ons now.
EDIT: whoops, i meant little canada, not little falls... isnt that in wisconsin?
50 more ft/lbs eh... based on your 220 ft/lbs comment i'm assuming you mean that in crank horsepower. So basically what you want is 190 ft/lbs or torque.
People are seriously struggling to make 190whp without spending an arm and a leg. And since the equation used to measure horsepower is (torque x rpm)/5252, unfortunately your peak torque will probably occur at 5252, and you're going to be hard up to make 190wtq by then.
If you somehow can figure out how to make 190wtq before 5252 i would say you've got some serious spending cash...
now if you make 190wtq after 5252 rpms you'll start to make horsepower numbers, starting with the intersection of the two curves (which is at 5252 on EVERY dyno chart due to the definition of horsepower as measured on dynos) you'll make equal torque and hp, thats just definition. so now if you make that same 190wtq at the top of your rev limiter, which i'll assume is an s13, so we'll call it 7k. At 7k, and 190wtq you're making about 254 wheel horse.
if you could spin it out to 8k, at 190wtq you'd be making 290 wheel ponies.
nothing short of a full race team and a lot of money can get you there at this point. Can someone do it? of course, its just very, very expensive, not to mention unstreetable.
i've really never heard of anyone making 190wtq before 5k, but i'm sure its been done by someone, somewhere.
I would probably start with some custom pistons. I've heard of all kinds of tips and tricks that people who know keep secret. so secret it makes me forget them... But my favorite off the shelf choice comes right from your Nissan dealership. Get the 89 SOHC pistons in a 90mm. These with rings only cost to me about 350. then get the appropriate machine work to get a little closer to 2.5 liter. The early pistons will need to be flycut as well, but they net a compression of about 11.7:1 (iirc from a chart i lost about the 90mm early pistons) Much higher compression, although for your goals it still may not be enough
You would need a custom header built, preferably designed by an engineer with an actual program for predicting power output (we do have those, i'm not experienced, but other team members are) to make power in whatever rpm you choose. Then it would be matched with an exhaust, which is much less complex to make. Then an intake manifold would need to be made with either different runner diameters or lengths, or both, with a new plenum, new injectors, probably a Q45 TB while you're doing all that, an intake ram (or as its usually called, an intake pipe) with a cold air box and a tuned length would cap off that side. Then the cams which will need to be custom ground, as well as many hours on the dyno with whatever tuning tool you choose to use. I've probably even left out some things, but my point is, its a lot of work and a lot of money... maybe 190 whp is a better goal? still then you need ALOT, but you dont need all the custom parts, its almost possible to do with bolt-ons now.
EDIT: whoops, i meant little canada, not little falls... isnt that in wisconsin?
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2black240s
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:05 am
- Car: black s13,black s14
dang, all that for 50 more pounds of torque?maybe i'd be better off going ka-t. I've looked into sr swaps, and for what you pay, it's not worth it to me. I've driven several and i'm not very impressed, turbo lag and no low end torque sucks to me. my stock ka pulls harder low end. When you punch it you should go, thats how i feel
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MaDD_Drizzle
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:31 pm
- Car: 93' Nissan 240SX SE Coupe
- Contact:
Re: (2black240s)
Sounds to me like what u want is acceleration without the cons of turbolagg....I think u been so fixed on looking at the engine for acceleration that you have completely forgot what makes the engine go....TRANSMISSION..so if u want acceleration at low RPM as well as High and whatnot to make ur head jolt back u dont necesarily need the engine to do that for u...want better traction to grip the floor better get better tires...better clutch..lighter flywheel..ans the list goes on.
try doin some research down that way see what u can come up with.
try doin some research down that way see what u can come up with.