22-23 Versa S MT loss of power

[vic831]

Ok my in laws 2023 Versa S MT has had 3 episodes in 3 months and 12,000 miles of upon startup the car exhibits condition of having no power like 20% throttle, like a limp home mode. Next startup is fine. Does not run fine then goes into this mode, if is from startup. It just happens to be in the am in 70 degree weather. One trip to dealer found no codes and condition could not be replicated. No CEL lights. No misfire.

Others have posted on YouTube that their code reader showed crank position sensor.
Others relate that this is MT only 22/23 ym Versa S and maybe related to the elimination of the push start button on S trim and is a software issue.

There are at least a half dozen 22/23 owners reporting this. Anyone else ??

In law will try to hook up their scan tool before going back to the dealer. May be very hard to track down. We are filing a report with NHTSA as well. May have to invoke lemon law as the car is dangerous to drive like this.

You tube poster thought turning off ignition and removing the key in an out of the road safe location and restarting the car may cure this intermittent problem. What about disconnecting the negative lead off the battery?? I’m not sure the owner will be able to drive the car with the scan tool hooked up

[Thasman]

This IS a software issue, I’ll reply back with the details after I get to my computer but the specific fault is with a diagnostic sensor sending information to the ECM, because it’s not actually the ECM or BCM that is seeing the fault, no code is stored in the memory. I’m wanting to say that there is a TSB out regarding the issue but don’t quote me in that just yet.

[VStar650CL]

I just checked ASIST, there are no engine TSB's at all on the '23's and only two evap bulletins on the '22's (neither of which are for loss of power). There are no "Quality Actions" either. There are some transmission bulletins, but only for the CVT's, not M/T's. So if it's a known issue, Nissan hasn't published anything yet. Frankly we haven't seen any problems remotely like that, so it can't be very common.

[VStar650CL]

That has to be a software glitch in the ECM if true. "Pending" codes are all readable by Consult3+ like any other code (they show up as "1T" meaning First Trip) and aren't supposed to disappear when you cycle the key, only after an SRT is passed. I dunno who you spoke to, but that all sounds very fishy.

[vic831]

Thank you Thasman and VStar. The dealer found no codes. THEN upon interrogation I find out that the driver has her fob key and non fob key on the same ring near the ignition switch (why???) when the car lost power on startup right after it wouldn’t immediately start up. Perhaps the 2 chip keys were confusing the ignition. The chip function was explained in detail to the in law and they have removed the 2nd key. The car ran fine to the dealer and back while there was only one key near the ignition.
We’ll see if this “fix” holds up.

The YouTube young poster had the advice with the key cycling. They read a camshaft position sensor code when they scanned their own car, but said the dealer found no codes.

[Jon King]

I am experiencing the same issue. My 2023 with manual transmission went into limp mode at 6ooo miles. Dealer found no codes, said they could do nothing. It happened again at 12000 miles. It is currently at the dealer. They said they could do nothing without a code. I showed them this post, and they kept it overnight at least pretending to be doing something. Without it, they would have sent me on my way. Does anyone know of a dealer who experienced this and resolved the issue?
Thanks

[VStar650CL]

Mystery limp problems like that are usually only solved by putting a scanner on it at the time the limp occurs, without cycling the key. If there's no MIL lit, then chances are it isn't a limp at all, it's either a bad fuel pump or a MAF or CKP/CMP issue. The latter can cause no-code conditions when they aren't flatlined but are malfunctioning, basically lying to the ECM and confusing it.

[Jon King]

The dealer found an issue with the alternator and replaced it under warranty. I am not convinced it fixed the limp mode issue. We will see.

[VStar650CL]

I don't buy it either. The new Versas have the same "smart" alternator as the latest Rogues, connected to the ECM by a LIN communication line. There's almost nothing that can go wrong with them without lighting up the MIL, generator lamp, or both. Sounds like a fishy diagnosis.

[Tombo]

I read something somewhere about not holding the key long enough upon startup being the issue. I was able to replicate this on my 23 S after I had this problem once. The 2 cars I had previous to this one you just had to bump the key into the start position for a half second and the computer took over. If you do that with these, it may still start, but it goes in a limp mode.

[oarend]

We've encountered the same issue with our 2024 Versa manual. (I found this forum after googling for something like how to attach your own datalogger to the Nissan to actually gather evidence)

The NHTSA has started an investigation (PE24007), but all I've seen on their website so far is a letter asking Nissan for information and granting them an extension on their reply (that was in July). And a whole bunch of reports of this particular issue just in the last few weeks ...

So even though the engineer in me wants to hook up a microcontroller and some storage to the car and log data and drive and have live data from when it happens again, it's also a huge safety issue. I hope they come up with a fix and issue a recall very soon.

Oliver

[VStar650CL]

There are still no bulletins in the Engine Control section ('24 either) other than the ones mentioned above and a generic diagnostic for P0101.

I did just repair a '24 Sentra today which made us all nuts with unexplained no-starts and alternator undercharge conditions. After an ECM and IPDM (installed by other dealerships) and an alternator (installed by us), the actual culprit turned out to be a bad wire on one of the ECM grounds. It was showing a 760mV voltage drop, which is about 15~25 times a healthy level. That was giving the ECM fuzzy glasses and causing a bizarre collection of codes when it threw any codes at all (which was only about half the time). In my experience, unexplained problems like the ones y'all describe are almost never firmware. Firmware issues are always reproducible under specific conditions, and chances are there would be thousands of instances and not dozens. Firmware may end up implicated if it's handling the underlying condition the wrong way, but it's very unlikely to be the ultimate cause. The answer will most likely prove to be a harness issue of some sort, conductors twisted the wrong way in assembly, a wrong terminal specified, a badly secured ground, a splice with too many wires, etc.

[Jon King]

I just had the limp mode issue again. The last time was at 12,000. I now have 24,000 miles. I had hope that the Nissan dealer secretly fixed it at 12,000 and didn't admit to me that there was a problem to preserve their image. Has anyone heard of a fix or progress of the complaints to NHTSA?

[oarend]

The complaints on the NHTSA website keep piling up. The last one from October 30 (NHTSA ID Number: 11622800) is particularly concerning, but it's obvious to anybody who has experienced the problem that at some point there won't be a close call, but an injury or death.

No (public) news on the investigation since they granted an extension to Nissan to provide the requested information by July 19. My wife actually called the NHTSA the other day, but all they said was that investigations can take a long time and don't always result in a recall.

There are Youtube videos on the subject that claim the issue is reproducible by intentionally stalling the car, but I haven't managed to do that.

Oliver

[VStar650CL]

There are still no bulletins for firmware on any of the N18 model years. There is an NHTSA open inquiry with 20 complaints begun in March of this year, the action number is PE24007 if you want to track it. To my knowledge there are no results or further information yet.

If you aren't getting codes along with the limp, I strongly suggest you take the time to check ECM pin-fits and ECM grounds. My feeling is that the root of the problem will turn out to be one or the other.

[oarend]

Is that something anyone with a multimeter can do? Because I don't see our dealer doing that on their own dime and time, even though they should considering our car is under warranty.

[VStar650CL]

You can check the grounds with a meter (voltage drop), but to do it properly you need to remove the shroud from the back of the "E" connector on the ECM so the ground wires can be back-probed. Checking pin-fits is easy, but you need a piece of .025" music wire. It should drag noticeably when inserted into the small ECM pin cavities, little or no drag means the pin-fit is bad.

[Jon King]

My local dealer just told me they have a fix for the limp mode issue. They say it is the VTC control unit. They have ordered it, but it is on back order. ETA unknown.

[VStar650CL]

My local dealer just told me they have a fix for the limp mode issue. They say it is the VTC control unit. They have ordered it, but it is on back order. ETA unknown.

I have to think they're either guessing or have supporting codes for your particular vehicle. There are still no bulletins, and a search in the TechLine database for '21~'24 Versas with the keywords "stall", "limp", and "VTC" yielded only two vehicles with bad ECM grounds. So hopefully it's a good guess, but color me doubtful.

[Jon King]

I just received a recall notice from Nissan. They replaced The VTC(valve timing control unit) and reprogrammed the ECM. Still having over revving issues at shift. Anyone experiencing this?

[VStar650CL]

The recall is specifically to fix the limp issue, so I'd be surprised if it incidentally fixed any other issues. Not that that's unheard of, but it isn't likely. The bulletin (NTB25-036) issued on 8/31 and it usually takes some weeks for the notices to go out, so we haven't seen one yet. There won't be many in any case, since the recall is limited to M/T's. NHTSA hasn't published the bulletin yet so I can't link it here, but if you have a subscription you can get a copy from nissan-techinfo.com.