how do you guys feel about this setup?
i was thinking of getting the ziex rears because the azenis' wear quickly and i think the wet traction is better with the ziex's.
KADE motor, open diff, 7/5 coilover setup, stock SE 7-spokes.
on a side note, do you think i could outcorner a stock 1994 bmw 325is with 235/40/17 kumho ecsta supra 712s? with me running 205/50/15 ziex all around? azenis all around? i also have heim-joint TC rods, tien tie rods, and new front control arms.
my s13 isnt running at the moment, so i cant test for myself.
205/50/15 Azenis 215 front.." " Ziex 512 Rear.
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grip_racer
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- Car: 1997 Audi A4 1.8TM
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GhostDriver
- Posts: 2316
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:14 am
- Car: 1991 Nissan 240SX RMS13
A saleswoman wanted to sell me a set of Ziexs but they looked like an economy performance tire to me so I didn't buy into it. I think you'd be able to corner tighter than the bimmer with just the tires; with all the suspension mods you've done, I think you should kinda slaughter it. I hope I'm not grossly underestimating the 3 series.
Modified by GhostDriver at 7:15 PM 4/18/2005
Modified by GhostDriver at 7:15 PM 4/18/2005
Re: (GhostDriver)
I think you are underestimating the 3 series. With coilovers and tires, I guess it's possible.GhostDriver wrote:A saleswoman wanted to sell me a set of Ziexs but they looked like an economy performance tire to me so I didn't buy into it. I think you'd be able to corner tighter than the bimmer with just the tires; with all the suspension mods you've done, I think you should kinda slaughter it. I hope I'm not grossly underestimating the 3 series.
Modified by GhostDriver at 7:15 PM 4/18/2005
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grip_racer
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- Car: 1997 Audi A4 1.8TM
Re: (SmithSR)
hey smith (or q45), i would like to know more about why a 7/5 setup is too stiff.
do i have to add other parts like sway bars to balance the suspension characteristics?
will the tires just not be able to keep up with the stiffness?
what is it and how can i balance it out?
do i have to add other parts like sway bars to balance the suspension characteristics?
will the tires just not be able to keep up with the stiffness?
what is it and how can i balance it out?
Re: (grip_racer)
-your load index (not to mention gearing!) on a 205-50-15 is crap, get a 205-55-15, that alone would get you farther, since your suspension is going to transfer weight quicker, a 205-55-15 will bear the weight easier (higher load index).
No you don't ahve toa dd more stuff making the suspension stiffer, that would be counterporductive. Here's the deal, withs treet tires you ar dealing with, at most, 1g of cornering force trying to sway the body. A race car, which runs higher spring rates, has tires capable of generating 1.2 to 2+G in a corner....
thusly, the race car has to run a stiffer suspension to keep body roll, weight trasfer and roll steer in check..
you do NOT.
All your doing is causing the car to skip over bumps and the suspension not be able to do its job quite as well. If you're looking for quickeness of weight transfer (ala drifting) this works quite well, but for optimum cornering...not so much.
-Chet
No you don't ahve toa dd more stuff making the suspension stiffer, that would be counterporductive. Here's the deal, withs treet tires you ar dealing with, at most, 1g of cornering force trying to sway the body. A race car, which runs higher spring rates, has tires capable of generating 1.2 to 2+G in a corner....
thusly, the race car has to run a stiffer suspension to keep body roll, weight trasfer and roll steer in check..
you do NOT.
All your doing is causing the car to skip over bumps and the suspension not be able to do its job quite as well. If you're looking for quickeness of weight transfer (ala drifting) this works quite well, but for optimum cornering...not so much.
-Chet
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grip_racer
- Posts: 274
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Re: (Exar-Kun)
this is all very interesting to me, chet.
i guess ive been brought up in a world thats been all about the drifting hype, so coilovers were the only way to fly. ive always seen the 7/5 setup as relatively soft as opposed to the 8/6, 9/7, and 10/8 setups that are common. then again, i havent even driven on them yet.
the best way to learn is probably through experience and seat time. haha, ive spent too much time asking questions on this forum and not fixing my car.
anyway, are there maximum spring rates and sway bar diameters you would suggest for good street tires?
and would keeping the 195/60/15 be even better than the 55 series because of higher load index? or would the less flexy sidewall prove for better handling over the load index? in other words, which would be the best of both sidewall stiffness and load index?
Modified by grip_racer at 8:31 PM 4/19/2005
i guess ive been brought up in a world thats been all about the drifting hype, so coilovers were the only way to fly. ive always seen the 7/5 setup as relatively soft as opposed to the 8/6, 9/7, and 10/8 setups that are common. then again, i havent even driven on them yet.
the best way to learn is probably through experience and seat time. haha, ive spent too much time asking questions on this forum and not fixing my car.
anyway, are there maximum spring rates and sway bar diameters you would suggest for good street tires?
and would keeping the 195/60/15 be even better than the 55 series because of higher load index? or would the less flexy sidewall prove for better handling over the load index? in other words, which would be the best of both sidewall stiffness and load index?
Modified by grip_racer at 8:31 PM 4/19/2005
Re: (grip_racer)
I used 205-55-15 reinfocred tires (90 load index) before upgrading to my 225-45-17 Pilot SPort 2's, and they worked quite well.
The highest spring rate I would be willing to use on street tires is the 7/5 setup, coupled with any aftermarket swaybar set you'd have plenty of suspension roll resistance, even for medium and hard R_compounds.
I have the ST swaybars on my car, coupled with RS*R springs and AGX shocks (3f 6 r)...
the reasoning being the RS*R springs are 50% stiffer than stock, which is about as high as I need, even with the super grippy PS2, and the ST sway bars are much stiffer than stock, so putting the two together makses the car nearly flat through corners. ALso, you don't want to run sway bars that overpower your springs/shocks (sway bars are pretty much torsion bars, and can be expressed in effective spring rate).
that said, if you know what you are doing, adjustable sway bars can be good, but if you never use the adjustability, get a nice set of ST's or CUsco bars and be happy.
Maximum diam, etc would depend on roads, driving conditions, etc for sway bars (much like spring rate). If you live in a southern summer climate with smooth roads and can run a sticky tire, a larger bar would be in order. THat said, I see no reason to go beyond Cusco's specs. IMO most of your roll resistance should be done by the springs and shocks, not the sway bars.
-Chet
The highest spring rate I would be willing to use on street tires is the 7/5 setup, coupled with any aftermarket swaybar set you'd have plenty of suspension roll resistance, even for medium and hard R_compounds.
I have the ST swaybars on my car, coupled with RS*R springs and AGX shocks (3f 6 r)...
the reasoning being the RS*R springs are 50% stiffer than stock, which is about as high as I need, even with the super grippy PS2, and the ST sway bars are much stiffer than stock, so putting the two together makses the car nearly flat through corners. ALso, you don't want to run sway bars that overpower your springs/shocks (sway bars are pretty much torsion bars, and can be expressed in effective spring rate).
that said, if you know what you are doing, adjustable sway bars can be good, but if you never use the adjustability, get a nice set of ST's or CUsco bars and be happy.
Maximum diam, etc would depend on roads, driving conditions, etc for sway bars (much like spring rate). If you live in a southern summer climate with smooth roads and can run a sticky tire, a larger bar would be in order. THat said, I see no reason to go beyond Cusco's specs. IMO most of your roll resistance should be done by the springs and shocks, not the sway bars.
-Chet
^^^^^^ oooooo i like this one, helps a lot
one question though Chet, since you dont have it on your site...do you run RS*R down or RS*R race springs?
you mentioned them being like 50% stiffer, and going by stock of 2.0 kg/mm thats 3.0 kg/mm, which is RS*R down rates...
am i correct or wrong and tired? reason being is i was considering the AGX/RS*R down combo
one question though Chet, since you dont have it on your site...do you run RS*R down or RS*R race springs?
you mentioned them being like 50% stiffer, and going by stock of 2.0 kg/mm thats 3.0 kg/mm, which is RS*R down rates...
am i correct or wrong and tired? reason being is i was considering the AGX/RS*R down combo
Re: (nismofly)
You are correct.Good job on the math. And, if you look at the FAQ, you'll know exactly why I run 3F and 6r on the AGXs...
Grip_Racer: you in Marrietta? I've probably seen you driving around.
Grip_Racer: you in Marrietta? I've probably seen you driving around.
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grip_racer
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- Car: 1997 Audi A4 1.8TM
Re: (Exar-Kun)
haha well my car's been in the garage for about 7 months now after my curb disaster and getting my liscense suspended. i get it back tomorrow though!! yay!
HAHA COME OVER AND HELP ME INSTALL MY SUSPENSION!!!!
mines a 1993 240sx as well.
HAHA COME OVER AND HELP ME INSTALL MY SUSPENSION!!!!
mines a 1993 240sx as well.