2022 REAR SONAR SYSTEM

[Hanadarko14]

So here I am again asking for more help!
2022 Rogue SL

We were tapped in the back end back in Dec and while there was the facia crease/crack all systems did still work fine.
Seems most of the love tap was cosmetic as he almost avoided the back end of our car.

The car was repaired and scanned for codes before and after the body shop. All clear.
Then the body shop sent the car for SONAR CALIBRATION ($650) to a sublet shop.

We got the car back and for the most part things seem ok but we noticed the rear/side-rear sonar seems off.

On the freeway in the middle lane I went to change lanes to the LEFT and my blindspot icon lit up and the car beeped.
There was no one there - but at the far LEFT of the LEFT lane is a concrete wall just past a few feet of the breakdown white line.
Thats never happened before - unless a real car was there!

In the past, if we were backing out of the driveway and got too close to a garbage can waiting to get picked up the system would beep and the dash would flash. Thats gone now. No more alerts to anything like that.

However, when backing into the garage - the system does beep as we get closer to the back side of the garage but something is off here.
I turned all the options to OFF or DISABLE and then re-enabled or turned them to ON.
No change.

Then I cleaned all of the sonar dots.
No change.

No idiots lights and my OBD2 scan shows no codes at all.

I am presuming calibration is off somehow but unsure of how this works and is calibrated or what options they select.
The only apparent user system setting I can find in the system is the following:

Sonar Distance
— Changes the RSS sensor’s detection distance to “Long,” “Medium” or“Short”.

It is on the medium setting but I dont know what the default was and the OM doesnt state a default.
Im sure its been on medium its entire life but cant be certain.

Any thoughts or directions on why this is happening or what to ask when the sublet shop gets this car back for eval.
We used a Nissan Body shop - but they send out all Nissan Sonar calibrations to a sublet company in the next town.

Ironically, We called 3 local Nissan dealers service department. Not a single one had any clue what we were asking about when I asked if THEY did Sonar Calibration. I had thought maybe a Nissan dealer might be a better option vs a 3rd party but it seems that too isnt an option especially if NONE of the SW have any clue what I am talking about!



-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

The dealers don't know about it because they're correct, there's no calibration for the Sonar system. What does get calibrated after a rear-ender is the Side Radars, which are attached to the bottom corners of the bumper cover. If they replaced the cover then that should have been done, and the absence of DTC's doesn't mean anything in that regard. Unlike the Front Radar, the Side units need to get way off center before they throw codes.

The FSM says the default for Sonar distance is indeed medium (60cm). Far and Near move the detection distance by +/- 6cm respectively.

[VStar650CL]

PS - The Side Radars are visible just by poking your head under the back of the car, so you can easily inspect them to make sure they're secure and not stuck cockeyed in the retainers.

[Hanadarko14]

Ok that makes sense. Yes the rear bumper facia was replaced with an OEM.
It's below zero here and going colder so I will have to wait to see if these 2 are still secure and sitting correctly.

Is the side radar the one thats also responsible for blind spot flashy mirror warning when trying a lane change?
That triggered today as I mentioned before with nothing in the lane next to me and I cant figured out why it though that as
the closest object would be that wall way left of the lane I was going to change to.

Kinda bad to hear an alert when you do not see anything and cant figure out why the car thinks something is there.

Thanks,
Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

Is the side radar the one thats also responsible for blind spot flashy mirror warning when trying a lane change?
That triggered today as I mentioned before with nothing in the lane next to me and I cant figured out why it though that as
the closest object would be that wall way left of the lane I was going to change to.

Yes, the Side Radars are pretty much solely responsible for BSW. Except in really awful weather, they don't typically "false alarm" very often compared to the older optical systems. So if yours is misbehaving, I'd say there's a good chance they misinstalled one or both radars, didn't replace a damaged one, or charged the insurance for a calibration but didn't actually do it.

[Hanadarko14]

Thanks-

They only replaced 2 parts after the impact.
The bumper facia and the tailgate beeper thing you helped me with a part number on.

We had zero issues after the accident and it took 3 weeks to get the car in the shop.
Once we got it back was when the issues arose..

So I dont think any of the Radar sensors are an issue as they worked fine for the 3 weeks prior - although anything is possible.
While I could see the sublet shop claiming they did sensor alignment and perhaps didn't but at the moment I kind of doubt that.
Im wondering if someone at the shop was 'new' or not familar with the correct procedure - thats why I was hoping to find a Nissan dealer that knows how to do this but again, this seems to be a farmed out thing around here vs any of the local dealers doing it.

Although anything is possible for sure nowadays..who knows

I am still waiting on the body shop to get back to me with an appt for the sublet calibration shop to investigate but we will go there and chat with them since even after the accident the only thing that didnt work was the tailgate beeper cause it was laying in the road and busted up.

I just went out in the garage and cannot see either of these 2 units. I looked up the part to see what the item looks like (Black kinda square box) and from my vantage spot under the car, I can only see the round sonar items and nothing else.
Im sure I just cant see it but thought I would be able to...so... ??

-Hanadarko

[Hanadarko14]

I have an appt 1/29 with Precision Auto (Calibration).

I dont know what to do if they either adjust it and it still doesnt work like it used to or if they claim it's perfect and nothing to adjust.

We never had a single issue pre/post accident until they did the supposed calibration.




-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

The calibration involves driving the car and is impossible to screw up. You do need a capable scanner to put the radars in "learn" mode. Then you watch the "learned" percentage go up from 0% as you keep driving, when it hits 100% you're done. Takes about 3 minutes on the highway or 5 minutes around the block. So if it was done at all, it isn't possible to do it wrong. The units themselves do all the work.

[Hanadarko14]

Thanks as always for your replies. Seems you are about my only reliable source of Nissan stuff

Ok I have assume/presume it wasnt done at all or something similar wasnt done.
Maybe this time it will be done-

But, the question persists - what if we get it back, they claim its all good to go and calibrated but it still doesnt
work like it did prior to any damage and body repairs?

Any thoughts on how I could push this or what I could do next?
My wife seems to really prefer these features - but I'm also wondering if its possible that these were always OFF adjustment
and now they might be spot on?

Of course that still doesnt explain why the BSW complained when I tried to make a lane change to the left lane on the freeway
despite no one actually being there-

I just dont want to keep dealing with this over and over again is what worries me.

-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

If the body repair went through your insurance, I'd make a supplemental claim and tell them you want the left side unit replaced by a dealer.

[Hanadarko14]

Well, everything worked fine before getting hit and even after for the 3 weeks it took us to get into the body shop.
So at the moment I dont believe the accident is the issue/cause for this BS.

Once we got the car back is when the issues arose..

I have an appt to drop the car at the body shop (We are not allowed to go to the sublet shop directly it seems) this Thursday.

Things work overall but the SENSITIVITY is the issue and of course the false BSW I get on the freeway..

-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

I've posted this before in other places but I'll repeat it here, there's simply no good way to pick the brains of safety systems like that. The BSW on my wife's Altima goes off like clockwork every time we turn onto the jughandle off I-30, and it's a one-lane exit with absolutely nothing unusual. Something about the camera image in that one location uniquely fools the ADAS and there's simply no way to diagnose why. Since in our case it's repeatable, I suppose the engineers could upload the images and figure it out, but there's no way on God's green earth for any technician to even approach it. The point is, it's entirely possible that your "phantom vehicle" was simply a one-off event that fooled the system and will never happen again. Your guess is as good as mine or anybody's. The only lesson here is that over-reliance on any electronic safety system is probably a bad idea, because they surely aren't infallible.

[Hanadarko14]

I get all of that and I totally agree..

Im an independent trucker, and I just ordered a new 2026 KW late last year and told the dealer if we cant order a truck w/o all that fancy driver-assist crap, I wont buy it.

The fleet type of semi trucks (the plastic disposable kind) always have these items cause 'steering wheel holders' with limited experience apparently need all the help they can get on the road. Sad but also true.

However being this is the 1st car my wife got that has all of this fancy stuff built in:
She just wants it restored to the way it worked PRIOR to the repairs. She has become used to these features and her request to reinstate them back to the way they worked is indeed a fair request.

I havent noticed any further BWS false alarms but the car still doesnt notify correctly when getting too close to another object as it used to.
So to us, something still isnt calibrated.

All she wants is the car restored to it's original working status.
Not too much to ask here but I feel it's not going to end up happening....

-Hanadarko

[Hanadarko14]

Well we just had a 2nd calibration done despite then telling me it 'self calibrates'.
Same as before.
No difference at all.

3 people tested it and told me its working fine - yet it still isnt working the way it did prior to the accident.

Next step is I need to ask the other insurance company (Geico) for approval to take it to a NISSAN dealer and have them re- evaluate it.
I knew this would happen to me.

One last thing I could try is increasing the sensitivity from NORM to HIGH and see if anything changes.
Its a shot in the dark but the only other one I got until I hear back from Geico.

-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

It may be that a sonar sensor got dinged in the accident, too. The sonar and side radars collaborate in the RCT/RAB setup and the manual doesn't exactly specify how that works. It's all coordinated by the ADAS but it's one of those "transparent" software functions that they never detail. The correct diagnosis is to stream the four sonar sensors on the Consult, then walk a straight line across the back of the car and watch the distances change. If there are any irregularities in the sensing distance they'll stick right out. If that shows up negative, then a proper calibration on the radars is called for (they don't self-calibrate, your car ain't a Dodge).

[Hanadarko14]

Thanks for the reply

I now have an new appt with our local Nissan dealer on Monday 2/2. That was funny cause it was usually 2 weeks just to get in and she even had availability Friday but I cant make it then..
The service writer ironically was very familiar with this and was able to answer all my questions.
That was nice for once.

They told me they would first do an exploration to see if things are assembled and wired up correctly and to get a starting point.
Then they would do the calibration.
Told me 1hr for diag and 2hrs for calibration.
That seems high but whatever..

I pushed Geico until they agreed to give the Nissan dealership a PO for this so they can troubleshoot the issue.

While the car is there they will do the KD15DDT ecm flash bearing-recall and check the engine. I've never seen anything in the oil
that didnt belong there normally..but now that they dont need to drop the pan, I'm interested in following up on this.
Might as well.

Of course the rep also said I had a turbo hose recall (I think thats the fuel hose we talked about awhile back) and I told them I didnt wait for Nissan to issue a recall and got the updated hose on my own ($12) - (thanks to you on this forum of course) and that did solve the fuel stink right away and it never returned.

-Hanadarko

[Hanadarko14]

Nissan Dealer - No trouble Found.
No codes, nothing.

Apparently they 'claim' they found settings that were not as sensitive as they should be set to so they changed them.
Ironically I have no idea what they are talking about since I can only find 1 setting (MEDIUM) and its still in the same setting.
All of the other settings are as they were before the tech worked on it.

I've debated on changing that one setting to "LONG" - but I know for sure I never set it to that when I got the car in 2022.

I do not see any improvements after they supposedly did something.

Both the turbo hose recall was done (despite me telling them it was already done) and the engine bearing ECM setting recall.
No issues with either.

FWIW, they didnt charge me the $199 diag fee despite Geico offering to pay for it.
I figure thats because they likely didnt do anything.

Oh well. I'm done with this.



-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

I dunno what to tell you except maybe try some DIY diag on the sonar. The side radars can't really be tested at all (even with a scanner), but you can check the sonar sensing distances yourself with the help of an assistant. Start the car and shift to reverse while your gofer walks parallel lines across the back of the car at gradually decreasing distances. Start at about 2-1/2 feet and close up the distance a few inches at a time. The graphic in the display should light up all four sensors in sequence at about the same distance. They should all trigger within inches of one another, if one is weak enough to cause problems then you'll see a significant difference. Those sensors are piezoelectric and use crystal or ceramic substrates. So they can definitely be damaged by an impact in ways that won't show up on the outside, and there are no real diagnostics built into them. The Sonar C/U only throws codes if a sensor quits talking, but it has no way to diagnose a sensor which has lost sensitivity.

[Hanadarko14]

Ok, thats easy enough to test.

I can have my wife walk back/forth behind the car while I gun the gas..oops I mean while I watch the backup view screen.


Say I find the one sensor that was right at the impact spot is weak, can that be purchased and R&R on my own or do they come in a string of them thats all one piece and costly?
Cause that could be a problem - especially if they are costly and I'd also have to find a way to get Geico to consider this.

PS. If the dealer had maybe SPENT some time on this (on Geico's tab) - maybe they might find this out like how you do...
I could explore a 2nd dealer perhaps, since there was no charge on today.

[VStar650CL]

Lol, I'm afraid they won't consider it a defect if the RAB won't let you run over anyone who needs it. We can only fix defective cars, not defective individuals.

For the record, I'm a master tech (semi-retired but still active) at a Nissan dealership. Those guys have all the same resources I do. If you like, print out the diagnostic steps I suggested and hand it to them. If your DIY diag shows anything specific, they can go straight to the problem. The sensors are individual, not a gang, and they don't need any calibration. However, they are high up in the bumper cover and you'll need to detach one side to get in there. That isn't rocket science on a Rogue, it's 3 10mm screws and a bunch of push-clips.

[Hanadarko14]

We will test this out today I hope. At my dealer I dont have any favorite tech like with Ford, so sadly I have no idea whom got this ticket and while I conveyed it all to the service writer, I'm sure it never reached the tech. I had actually asked to speak with him when he was working on the car so I could better explain my concern. That didnt happen but again, I wasnt surprised. I really hate most dealers....sadly.

So a question for you (and I really appreciate the help here...

In this picture below, this is one of the things that no longer works post body shop repair. Post accident it was fine. Just stopped after the body work...

As we back into this garage with the DRIVER side facing the rail track and both garbage cans, the system used to complain horribly about these items as it we were going to smash into them. Now, post repair I get an alert as I start to back into the garage but then nothing more despite being mere inches away from these garbage cans.

That's actually whats the worst after the repairs. I am not sure which sensor is responsible for 'seeing' the rail and dual garbage cans in this scenario.

Thoughts?

-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

Sounds like the driver's side inboard sensor is working but the outboard sensor is either dead or damaged. The sweep of the inboard sensor extends almost to the edge of the car so you still might get a corner indication when an obstacle is to the rear, but it can't detect anything beyond the left end of the bumper. That's the outboard sensor's territory. That should show up in a DIY test, the corner sensors should both trigger when an obstacle is offset as much as 50 degrees off the side of the car. If the right does but the left doesn't, that's a smoking gun.

[Hanadarko14]

This is the left rear (driver side) where the accident happened. You can see the 'hole' in the bumper and scrape marks on the facia as the point of impact.

I have notated two sonars I see in the pic - and wondering which once might likely be to blame for not seeing the garbage cans right next to us?

I"m thinking the one in the bumper facia vs the fender part.

If these are easy enough to replace (and they SEEM to be) it might be worth my effort to just replace 1 or both.
If I found the right part online they seem under $100 each so they are affordable in this case...

-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

That sounds likely, but a little DIY testing should tell you for sure. The sensors in the fenders are actually for RCTA and the manual isn't clear whether they work like normal sensors in parking mode. I always assumed they didn't, but that could be wrong. It's another one of those software secrets they don't tell us about. For those I'd say have your assistant walk the sides of the car in a similar fashion. Same deal, if the right side performs and the left doesn't then it answers the question (and I'll know for future reference how those sensors perform).

[Hanadarko14]

I likely will replace at least that one sonar unit - but we need to test of course.

One thing that I still cant understand here is that even after the accident everything worked perfectly.
We had the car over 3 weeks before the body shop could get us in and all of the systems worked fine until we got
the car back, repaired.

After the body shop repair was when we noticed a change in behavior.
Thats why I honestly thought a correct calibration might have fixed the issues but it didn't.

Not sure what that means or if its even related or just after a few weeks of the accident one of the sensors took a dive.
It doesn't make much sense.


-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

Cracks in a ceramic or silicon substrate aren't always catastrophic immediately. Sonar sensors are "transceivers", meaning they both transmit and receive the ultrasonic signal. Basically they vibrate themselves. So it's not unlikely that one with a tiny crack from the impact might work for awhile and then vibrate itself to oblivion.

[Hanadarko14]

We did several tests. They were inconclusive.

However…
It does seem like we have low sensitivity on the impact side but similar random low sensitivity on the passenger side.
Changing the dash from medium to long doesn’t change any behavior.

To me, it seems like we could have two flakey sensors but the two in the middle of the bumper are good for sure.

I did test each side sonar by walking close to the car while in reverse but nothing alerted so as your guess, I don’t think the side fender mounted units have anything to do with backing up.

Once I figure out the sonar part I will chase the best price online and maybe order two and swap them out.
Actually I don’t think anything will change but it’s worth a last shot.

-Hanadarko

[Hanadarko14]

There are like almost 10 unique part numbers for this sonar parking sensor.
The car was USA Built so I think I need a USA BLACK unit.

I have reached out to 5 online dealers (including the one you typically post) and no one has replied.
My local dealer - I dont trust. They already sold me the wrong air filter despite giving them my VIN.

$74 seems about the cost of these which is fine but I dont want to risk ordering the wrong unit or color.
Seems the front use the same unit as the back at least.



-Hanadarko

[VStar650CL]

I'm at the shop right now, shoot me your VIN. I'll check with our Parts Dept.

[Hanadarko14]

PM sent.
I think its this one:

Park Sensor
28438-6606R

Thanks,
-Hanadarko