2014 Steer by Wire

[atlM35]

I don't like the sounds of this, another way to remove control of the car. Plus something else to malfunction while going 80 on the freeway:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2014- ... re-system/

[bejjutsu]

I agree with that concern. However, this article leaves out an important detail. There is a mechanical backup connection (similar to what's in cars now) in addition to the second computer.

From Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... 3A20121017
"The cars will also have a backup clutch that will link the steering wheel and tires mechanically in the event of any problems, but Nissan hopes this won't always be needed."

[atlM35]

That still doesn't ease my mind. Being an engineer, I don't think that technological advancements are worth risking lives.
I know that we can lose steering if we have a leak in our current hydraulic system, but it's not as sensitive to other factors such as water, overheating, incomplete programming... just too many variables when it comes to electronically controlled systems.
If the backup clutch is electronically controlled, there's always a chance of the computer not detecing a problem or power not being properly supplied... it also sounds like we would lose feedback in the steering wheel on road conditions as well and we're introducing actuators that could fail and we lose steering.

I guess I need to do more research before I would consider purchasing a car with this.

[bejjutsu]

It's certainly a huge change to fundamental technology used in every car today. As someone who will not be buying this car, it will be very interesting to see how the industry and public react.

Going out on a limb here, I don't think that consumers will accept this technology if it leads to a single death...

[N8NiTTY]

I think this is cutting edge and I'm sure they would not release this without fully testing it. My Next M(Q70) will have it and I'm looking foward to it.

[atlM35]

I think this is cutting edge and I'm sure they would not release this without fully testing it.

That's what to Toyota thought... then they had the dbw/sticky pedal problem.

[N8NiTTY]

I think this is cutting edge and I'm sure they would not release this without fully testing it.

That's what to Toyota thought... then they had the dbw/sticky pedal problem.

Point Taken
Toyota had the problems in regular Toyotas not in lexus( to my knowledge..correct me if i'm wrong)
For nissan to experiment with their luxury brand would be reckless.

[bejjutsu]

I think this is cutting edge and I'm sure they would not release this without fully testing it.

That's what to Toyota thought... then they had the dbw/sticky pedal problem.

That's what I was thinking.... But aren't most/all throttles electronic at this point? The "steering by wire" tech is then somewhat analogous (i.e. eliminate a physical connection for a computer one). Back to Toyota, the Lexus incidents were insane, but I guess I am ignorant as to how their system was any different from an average car.

[jonlex99]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Mercedes Benz using or has been using this technology. In a few of their models. I don't think this is new technology maybe to Nissan/Infiniti. Anyways I think this will be interesting to see and try.

[EniGmA1987]

but it's not as sensitive to other factors such as water, overheating, incomplete programming... just too many variables when it comes to electronically controlled systems.

+ degraded electronic components over the life of the car (especially in extreme weather areas), computer stability issues from problems in your cars electrical system, hackable, input delay


People may say that computers can be plenty stable, but there will always be a bug or two in the system. Even our car's computer for its entire stability control can be crashed pretty easily

[atlM35]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Mercedes Benz using or has been using this technology. In a few of their models. I don't think this is new technology maybe to Nissan/Infiniti. Anyways I think this will be interesting to see and try.

I wouldn't be surprised. Mercedes is always the first to develop the new tech then the rest adopt the idea a few years later.

[The00Dustin]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Mercedes Benz using or has been using this technology. In a few of their models. I don't think this is new technology maybe to Nissan/Infiniti. Anyways I think this will be interesting to see and try.

I wouldn't be surprised. Mercedes is always the first to develop the new tech then the rest adopt the idea a few years later.

That POS CTS I have posted about before had an auto-centering steering wheel (I know this because the steering wheel [and not the car or floorboards or seats] would vibrate on smooth roads when there was no alignment/balance problem due to a bad [auto-centering steering wheel] sensor that got replaced under warranty). How could the steering wheel auto-center (or otherwise move itself without the wheels changing direction) if it was directly attached to the steering system? I'm pretty sure this isn't new at all if Cadillac wta using it at least 6 years ago...

[bejjutsu]

Did you all know that the new Infinitis will be made in China? That's probably the scariest part of any of this.

[SteveTheTech]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Mercedes Benz using or has been using this technology. In a few of their models. I don't think this is new technology maybe to Nissan/Infiniti. Anyways I think this will be interesting to see and try.

I wouldn't be surprised. Mercedes is always the first to develop the new tech then the rest adopt the idea a few years later.

I do not really know that that is completely true. Infiniti has been known for not selling their technology well. They have been using forward facing laser based cruise control since late 2001. Systems like distance control assist, lane departure prevention, and voice command have been used for many years with very little fan fare. Any of the three systems that use the active gas pedal were rolled out with almost no publicity. When Jeep started using laser cruise I think they purchased Super Bowl ad space and ended up buying more ad time than the local candidates in the most recent election. Audi and Toyota are ahead of Benz in many of they cutting edge tech in many aspects. They are both have autonomous programs that were announced at CES recently. (http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/driver ... -1.1236345 ) Autonomy is happening, fairly soon too probably. I am one of the few geeky supporters of this system. I look forward to it, I bet it feels better than some companies electric steering systems. Personally I would like to see a sport mode that allows you to decrease steering ratio, or expand it for parking lot movements using a wider ratio.

As an engineer you might find this interesting http://ddl.stanford.edu/p1

Mercedes has more places for trickle down technology to start out as Nissans highest end is the GTR and the M56 currently. However, this is something they have put a lot of work into.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZhoPe1X8KU[/youtube]

I have been following Nissans' use and testing of steer by wire since they announced a partnership with Stanford a few years back.The best way to think about the fail safe operation of this system is to look at 18 wheeler air brakes. When they loose pressure the brake activate. It looks like there will be three layers of oversight (three more than currently used) if every one were to fail a clutch would engage a mechanical link.

Did you all know that the new Infinitis will be made in China? That's probably the scariest part of any of this.

I cannot find anything legitimately posted that makes mention of everything being made over there. We need to remember that China has the most rapidly expanding class that can afford these cars. Infiniti would be stupid to ignore this. Several European manufacturers are already building over there. BMW is the only company I can see that builds there and exports globally, but it does not appear they are in the North American markets or the UK since public perception is not very good. The majority of the components are already made in China, but I bet you they continue to complete final assembly in a country with a more favorable public image. I am biased thought, I would not have purchased a new G if it did not have a J to start its VIN.

[bejjutsu]

Did you all know that the new Infinitis will be made in China? That's probably the scariest part of any of this.

I cannot find anything legitimately posted that makes mention of everything being made over there. We need to remember that China has the most rapidly expanding class that can afford these cars. Infiniti would be stupid to ignore this. Several European manufacturers are already building over there. BMW is the only company I can see that builds there and exports globally, but it does not appear they are in the North American markets or the UK since public perception is not very good. The majority of the components are already made in China, but I bet you they continue to complete final assembly in a country with a more favorable public image. I am biased thought, I would not have purchased a new G if it did not have a J to start its VIN.[/quote]

Right. There are plenty of mentions around the web, but nothing that has been confirmed by the company. We trust China to produce a lot of expensive quality items. I'm not really worried about the "steer by wire" and only marginally more worried about where the cars *may* someday be made. Thanks for your info and input!

[EniGmA1987]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZhoPe1X8KU[/youtube]

That video is a bit misleading though and makes me think even more about it just being marketing hype. The video says that the electronic control responds quicker to your inputs than a mechanical connection, which is completely impossible unless the mechanical design is for some reason made with a "deadzone". I realize most people are pretty stupid about anything technical and would just believe what they are told or see in a video, but anyone who understands how mechanical things work would know it doesnt get any more quick to respond than the input being directly coupled to the output a mere couple feet away. The amount it responds would obviously be tied to gearing and such, but direct mechanical connection does not have lag time like the video suggests. Whereas even if you got the fastest computer possible, there would still be a lag time for data processing and signal transfer. Granted that yes in the fastest system possible the lag would barely be 50 microseconds which you cant even comprehend, but we wont have the fastest system possible and the point is that any computer connection will be slower no matter what than a direct mechanical connection. I hope as you said that Nissan really did put a ton of thought and work into this and that it turns out well, but the advertisements are nothing more than marketing hype

[SteveTheTech]

That video is a bit misleading though and makes me think even more about it just being marketing hype. The video says that the electronic control responds quicker to your inputs than a mechanical connection, which is completely impossible.

I agree a fair portion of this is marketing team spin run through several sets of lawyers in many countries. The time delay in the mechanical connection has got to be arguably small and people are terrified about this concept already. A decade ago people were scared about using throttle by wire, even then the network speed was quick enough that it never caused any problems. Nissan and Infiniti have been using remote brake control as well since about 2002, throttle control started with secondary throttle control on the Q and full control on everything in 2003.

I suspect this system will be on a dedicated network through minimal connections, and it might be faster than a physical connection. I am going to ask this question of everyone I come across who might know about it, and see if I can hunt down some proof. What I think will be very interesting is the way removing the last physical connection to the ground is going to be seen from the insurance and legal communities. I feel like one of the only supporters of autonomous vehicles. Some people do not want to drive, cannot physically drive, or should not drive, having the technology to allow people to move about more freely in a safe way will improve the quality of life of many people and should improve our

I have spent a good amount of time driving the new FXs, M, and QX with safety shields using the zero speed cruise to drive through traffic. These system work on the road in DC traffic, and when there is a problem the fault detection speed and fail safe activation occur before the driver knows what happens. I have had this happen to me a few times, even with the computer watching the light is on and the safety features cancel. All of the devices that control movement get at least two sensors that monitor position and speed that are directly related to the movement and one that watches the function of the system.

The reason you may see more replacement gas pedals and throttle bodies on aging Ms and Gs is that the error tolerance rate is extremely low and there is no servicing any of the sensors contained within the control and controlling devices involved in anything safety related.