2014 Pathfinder Smoke Show at Startup

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splash1995
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Car: 2014 Pathfinder S 2WD 3.5L V6

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Hi,
I am new to this site and new to owning a Pathfinder, so I am hoping you guys can shoot me some pointers. Well I have this issue with it making a smoke show out the exhaust when I start my 2014 Pathfinder S up lol. It has 104k miles on it. Doesn’t matter if it is cold or hot at start-up it seems either. Surprisingly, there isn’t much about all this on the interwebs for this year model that I can find. My google searches always pulls up first that poor guy’s story over on the nicoclubs forums when I am looking for my issues as they are similar. So, this is what is going on with my PF at the moment.
1. Background: I got this car off copart (sight unseen!) and externally and interior wise has no issues, it just needed a good cleanup to look good again. When I was poking around the engine bay, it was super clean surprisingly, and no leaking fluids anywhere to be found. However, I did notice a good amount of sludge in the oil cap and around where I can see into the engine from the oil fill port. It was also super low on coolant as the reservoir was dry. All these are warning signs of course, but seem fixable....
2. Work Done: Here is what I have done so far relating to the engine. I haven’t don’t anything more than listed and I don’t know the history of the car due to it being an auction car.
a. Drained/replaced the oil with synthetic 5W-30. Changed the filter too. I didn’t notice anything weird with the fluid, but I didn’t analyze it enough either before tossing it because the smoking issues weren’t really apparent by then. Also, the prior owner left an oil change receipt in the car and they did it a year prior to now, so it wasn’t a long time ago.
aa. I added Rislone Engine Treatment when I changed the oil as well. I figured it would work on the sludge until I do a proper engine flush.
b. Drained/replaced the coolant. The coolant came out a dark blue which I thought was weird, but I don’t know the history of car, so figured it was just old. I will note that there was a very very slight oily sheen in the coolant after I replaced it and drove around a couple times. That got me worried of course.
Well after all that, cue the smoke show....this is what I have done since the smoke shows started.
c. Added K-Seal Coolant Leak Repair to the coolant to go after a possible failed head gasket. It seemed like it worked for a little bit, but I can’t tell at this point, as it smokes no matter what.
d. Replaced the PCV valve and its small hose as it had a hole in it from the heat/age. That seemed to stop the smoking right after that first start, but it didn’t last when I drove around to test things out.
e. Replaced the radiator cap because...why not at this point.
3. Observations: So this what noticed with this car up to this point concerning this issue.
a. The smoke coming out the car is thick white at first and it lingers for a long time. It doesn’t smell good/sweet and does have a slight burning smell to it. Eventually it thins out but it will still smoke a little at idle no matter what.
b. The car drives fine, no check engine lights, mpgs seem good, and the engine seems to pull fine too. The CVT is starting to do what it does (very slightly), but I plan to change the fluid and the known defective valve to get ahead of that soon.
c. The car will smoke at start-up still. Cold or hot and is pretty consistent at this point. It is suuuuuuper embarrassing of course and I park far away from anywhere I frequent lol.
d. The car will smoke under hard acceleration and it can be a lot to slight at times. Sometimes leaving from a stop it will shoot some smoke out too. Again, suuuuuper embarrassing....
e. The coolant doesn’t seem to be dropping in the reservoir, but I am going to mark to make sure. The coolant does not have a slight oily sheen to it anymore or that I can tell, and it doesn’t seem to have any weird colorings at all. Also, the car hovers around 180F - 195F when I monitor it when my OBD scanner. The dash temp indicator is to the left of middle if that makes sense.
f. The engine oil looks fine, it is golden looking still. I will check it more often to see if the engine is consuming oil a lot, but I don’t think this is happening since I only changed it last week.
4. Conclusion: Thank you for getting this far lol! So, I would love to get this fixed asap. I have a road trip coming up and this smoking thing is super concerning. I am really just looking for a quick fix to be honest. Add some magical fluid to unclog, seal, or clean what ever ails this car. If it is the head gasket, which I guess is common with the VQ35DE, I need to find a new gasket sealer then and I am open to suggestions. I do not want to replace the head gasket on this car as it looks beyond my capability and time I am willing to give. Could sludge cause this? I am sure the intake manifold is all gummed up at least and maybe making the car smoke? I plan to take it off and clean it up at some point. Thank you!


04pathse
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White smoke almost always means a failed head gasket.
There are a few head gasket sealers around such as Bars Leaks and Blue Devil.

Of course the best thing is to replace the gasket itself but you may have luck with the sealers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QjIjWa_bCk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEji3vG9DAM

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AZhitman
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Welcome aboard!

If you're confident enough to pull the manifold, you can replace a head gasket. Both are big jobs.

My guess is the sludge is the issue. Cars wind up at Copart because they're either damaged beyond repair or not running, so I'd guess yours was the former. 100k of ignored maintenance will create the situation you have.

Crankcase sludge won't be remedied by Rislone. You'd have to get aggressive (25% ATF in the crankcase, running under controlled conditions) to de-sludge it, and even that will only get SOME of the sludge out. The head is likely gummed up, valves are nasty, valve stem seals have failed, IACV is gummed up and PCV system likely not functioning.

Sadly, there's no "voodoo juice" or "quick fix" that will correct a failed head gasket. If there was, no one would maintain their cars, we'd all be driving $1000 junkyard rescues, and the auto industry would collapse.

The lack of a CEL leads me to believe it MAY have been disabled... Does the CEL come on with the key on (before start)? Have you put a scanner on it to pull any current, stored, or pending codes?

splash1995
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Car: 2014 Pathfinder S 2WD 3.5L V6

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04pathse wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:56 pm
White smoke almost always means a failed head gasket.
There are a few head gasket sealers around such as Bars Leaks and Blue Devil.

Of course the best thing is to replace the gasket itself but you may have luck with the sealers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QjIjWa_bCk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEji3vG9DAM
thank you. i will check those out when i go to autozone soon.

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:45 pm
Welcome aboard!

If you're confident enough to pull the manifold, you can replace a head gasket. Both are big jobs.

My guess is the sludge is the issue. Cars wind up at Copart because they're either damaged beyond repair or not running, so I'd guess yours was the former. 100k of ignored maintenance will create the situation you have.

Crankcase sludge won't be remedied by Rislone. You'd have to get aggressive (25% ATF in the crankcase, running under controlled conditions) to de-sludge it, and even that will only get SOME of the sludge out. The head is likely gummed up, valves are nasty, valve stem seals have failed, IACV is gummed up and PCV system likely not functioning.

Sadly, there's no "voodoo juice" or "quick fix" that will correct a failed head gasket. If there was, no one would maintain their cars, we'd all be driving $1000 junkyard rescues, and the auto industry would collapse.

The lack of a CEL leads me to believe it MAY have been disabled... Does the CEL come on with the key on (before start)? Have you put a scanner on it to pull any current, stored, or pending codes?

thank you for the info. I guess i could do the head gasket, but i just don't want to bother at this point. plus i have this road trip coming up and i want to drive this car, and the only issue is the smoking exhaust right now. it runs fine otherwise, idles fine, and no warning lights....yet. I have a OBD tool and everything is good, plus i just just got it pass emission testing too. I don't have a nissan specific scanner though, so i might be missing something that isn't throwing a CEL just yet.

and you may be right about the copart cars. i bought this sight unseen (dumb, i know lol), which has already bitten me in a** with a X5 i got off them too. at this point if i can make the smoking stop temporarily i will be happy, as the car is in a great shape otherwise. if the valve cover with the PCV valve was near the front of the car, i would tackle that to see if anything else is clogged. But of course it's not! it is on the back towards the firewall of the car with no room to work, so i know it is going to be a b**** to get off. hmmm i did change the PCV valve already, and it didn't smoke after initial start, but started after driving around. it could've been a fluke it didn't smoke that time, but maybe the overall PCV system valve cover tubing is clogged up. Do you think spraying brake cleaner in those orifices or something similar might break up the sludge in those areas? I plan i buying some "magic" fluid for the possible leaky valve seals soon to try that out at least. Maybe I try Seafoaming the intake system too, but i don't want to foul any O2 sensors or any other sensors down the line, as they seem to be working currently. thoughts?

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AZhitman
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I get the sense that I may not have been clear. Let's start over: Does the CEL come on with the key in the ON position? If not, it has been removed. Not sure how you passed emissions with it smoking, but that's none of my business.

Spraying fluids around randomly isn't going to fix anything. At all. You'll do more harm than good. Breaking up sludge is neat, but you don't know where it will go, so why do it?

I've never seen a vehicle (that smokes to that extent) survive a long road trip - but a car that smokes shouldn't pass emissions, either.

You seem convinced the car is fine except for the excessive smoke, so just drive it. The issue will eventually present itself clearly - just hope you're not a long way from home - get a AAA membership and send it! :)

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:10 pm
I get the sense that I may not have been clear. Let's start over: Does the CEL come on with the key in the ON position? If not, it has been removed. Not sure how you passed emissions with it smoking, but that's none of my business.

Spraying fluids around randomly isn't going to fix anything. At all. You'll do more harm than good. Breaking up sludge is neat, but you don't know where it will go, so why do it?

I've never seen a vehicle (that smokes to that extent) survive a long road trip - but a car that smokes shouldn't pass emissions, either.

You seem convinced the car is fine except for the excessive smoke, so just drive it. The issue will eventually present itself clearly - just hope you're not a long way from home - get a AAA membership and send it! :)
I am sure the CEL light comes on at the ON position, i am just too lazy to go outside to check right now, it is too cold lol. But i have a OBD scanner, and it would show any error codes the car has, which of course would turn on the CEL anyways. It wasn't smoking when i took it for emission testing and had no CEL on either. this was less than 4 days after it got dropped at my house from copart, so maybe all the old oil kept it from smoking then....hmmm you just gave me an idea to try for all this too. more to follow on that if it works =).

But what is the issue as you see it? mostly sludge and all its nasty affects you mentioned at this point? i actually hope you are right to be honest, because that is fixable in my opinion. Granted, to do it right i would have to tear most of the engine apart to clean it up, which i don't have time for anytime soon. Hence, i was looking for band-aids that go after the sludge issue temporary. Just to keep from smoking and all that.

I will say it truly "runs" fine, it "feels" like it doesn't have 104k on the odometer, but looking inside the oil fill port tells a different story lol. This is all predicated on the K2 coolant sealer working earlier as intended, and that i am in fact not just burning coolant too. That would be a double whammy then, blown head gasket and engine sludge... :cry:

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AZhitman
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Can't help you if you're going to keep guessing and not following a proven logical process.

I'm not sure what you thought Copart was, but it's not a reputable functional car reseller. You bought a car from a wrecking yard. Twice. A simple Google search would confirm this.

We don't do 'lazy' here. Either you want help, or you want to write walls of text.

You've told us three times you want a "magic bullet" that doesn't exist. You can wish all day long, but that won't fix your engine.

I suggest you take it to a priest. Incantations will be much more effective than what's been done this far.

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:39 am
Can't help you if you're going to keep guessing and not following a proven logical process.

I'm not sure what you thought Copart was, but it's not a reputable functional car reseller. You bought a car from a wrecking yard. Twice. A simple Google search would confirm this.

We don't do 'lazy' here. Either you want help, or you want to write walls of text.

You've told us three times you want a "magic bullet" that doesn't exist. You can wish all day long, but that won't fix your engine.

I suggest you take it to a priest. Incantations will be much more effective than what's been done this far.
you may be right about the magic stuff and all that. but it is worth the few dollars to try at least and see if it will temp fix it.

If i end up tackling the head gasket, i will search this forum for a how to, as the interwebs seem to be lacking in that area. probably because nobody bothers with this engine lol. thanks again for your insight and time.

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AZhitman
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Lots of info out there on the VQ35 - I wouldn't say no one 'bothers with it.'

Hell, it's been available in almost every vehicle Nissan makes, for nearly two decades.

BTW, the FSM is here: www.nissanservicemanual.com

Good luck!

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:42 pm
Lots of info out there on the VQ35 - I wouldn't say no one 'bothers with it.'

Hell, it's been available in almost every vehicle Nissan makes, for nearly two decades.

BTW, the FSM is here: www.nissanservicemanual.com

Good luck!
thank you for the link!

and to clarify, i meant i didn't find a step-by-step guide on youtube about doing the head gasket with the engine in car. most that i found were with the engine out of the car and on a engine stand. of course it looks easy doing that way then lol

splash1995
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So I have an update on what I have done so far for this issue....

1. I add a different brand of gasket sealer, but the same type (copper-ish based), and no difference with the smoking that I can tell after driving to work and back today. Main issue is the sick vape clouds at startup. It “seemed” to work after I put it in at first and the smoking at startup got less and less after each idling cycle I did. Basically, I added it initially, ran per instructions (bring car to operating temp then idle for 20mins-ish). Then I let the car cool down for over 2 hours, rinse and repeat 3 times. That was my “simulated” drive cycles attempts. Smoking got less and less at idle, then to nothing by the third time. However! On the fourth drive cycle around my neighborhood it still smoked while driving around at light throttle and got worst at higher RPMs/load. I will note that coolant consumption was really reduce after all that, but is still happening slightly. I am not sure if it is just air making it way through the system after the coolant drain/refill I did at the same time which will make the reservoir levels change slightly after each drive cycle until the air is completely out (I am guessing at on that), but I monitor the levels going forward.

2. Next, engage smoke screen! Soooo besides the smoke show at startup, I also noticed consistently that I am blowing smoke at higher RPMs and that smoke doesn’t look the same as the vaping at startup. But honestly that is hard to tell when it is in your rearview and you are gassing out the person behind you from the stop light lol. I checked my oil levels when I posted this issue originally and it was at the half-mark, which was odd to me, as it was at the high mark after I drained/changed the oil when I got the car. I just checked today after the engine cooled and it there was no oil on the dipstick! Ok just a dab at the tip of the dip stick, but still, that oil is gone! So, cue the real issue with this engine (possibly)....

3. State of affairs:
a. I still have a blown head gasket of course, but the gasket sealer “seems” to be managing it better, but it didn’t stop if completely of course. I don’t want to try a more serious type of sealant, as I don’t want to risk gumming up stuff and making the coolant system completely inop by chasing a leaking gasket. I might as well bite the bullet and just replace the head gasket...
b. I think the bigger issue I have is probably blown piston rings. Seems to be the thing to explain the insane oil consumption at this point and smoking under WOT/higher RPMs, and even at idle/start-and-stop situations. I also checked my PCV valve again to make sure it was ok, and I noticed some oil/fluid in it and some fluid dripping out of the rubber hose that connects to it. But get this, the hose actually felt cool to the touch after driving the car back from work today (30 miles-ish), which I though was odd for something that is supposed to cycle exhaust gases to the intake manifold. Furthermore, checking the oil dipstick while the engine is hot show oil up and down its whole length. I am not sure if that is normal, but that doesn’t seem right me. Additionally, if I WOT the smoke will clear up after a bit. Even steady highway driving the smoke will eventually disappear. But once I stop at a light for a bit or something and get going again....smoke. Finally, I got a check engine light to come on with all this smoking yesterday. It said cylinder 2 misfiring and when that happened, the car was struggling along with a bunch of smoke of course. So after thinking about everything and using Mr. Google I think I have blown piston rings that are causing huge blow-by. Which is forcing oil where it shouldn’t be, like the PCV system, and probably making me consume oil like crazy at this point. Coupled with a blown head gasket, this is that double whammy I feared I may have....

4. Way forward: dump the car lol I will say I am hitting up copart again to get rid of this car and take the hit money wise. I don’t have the desire/care to replace piston rings if that is the problem. Head gasket, sure! piston rings, no lol. But I haven’t decided that yet. This is what I am thinking.
a. Perform a compression test to make sure the piston rings are shot. I think I can rent those kits from Autozone to run this test. Has anyone done this with a kit from them or any other part store? I will say I was trying to change the spark plugs on the engine today to just....throw parts at it; don’t forget I have a road trip to make lol. But even a 14 mm deep socket can’t get in there and it looks like I need a special thin wall socket to get to them. I will take an Amazon link to one that will work if anyone has one. But yea, I foresee a problem with getting a compression tester all the way down to the spark plug hole because of all that.
b. I want to do an engine flush to reduce the sludge levels at least. But I won’t bother if the piston rings are shot, as I don’t think having sludge in there is going to matter for all that.
c. Finally, I will admit I added one more “magic” fluid to this mix. The Rislone ring sealer...yup I think that stuff burned up with the rest of the oil I had in there at this point lol but that makes me think when I first got the car. It wasn’t smoking, like at all, and I even had it pass smog and all that. The more I think about it, maybe it had just normal oil in it (it looked that way when I drained it), not the synthetic stuff I have in it now. Or maybe the rings just took a dump anyways, and it was just my dumb luck it happened while I had it....
btw, the road trip is cancelled lol

splash1995
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A quick update...Let me introduce you to my cylinder 2,4, and 6's pistons and spark plugs! And a peek into my oil fill port as well :ohno: Of course the other bank is facing the firewall and i am sure it will be a pain to get to so i can see inside those cylinders as well :mad: . But clearly this is where all my oil went and some coolant it seems so far lol. So IF this is JUST a super failed head gasket that needs to be replaced, is it worth desludging the engine and seafoaming the hell out of these cylinders to get things going again? Basically, i don't want to even bother if all this looks like a legit fried/blown engine to the more experienced in this forum. I still have this weird optimism about maybe it is JUST the failed head gasket that caused all the smoking, and i just need to replace it, clean everything up, and off i go. i even hope to see clean-ish cylinders on other bank (1,3,5) to reinforce my weird optimism lol. thoughts?


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AZhitman
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I'm probably wasting my energy here, because logic and experience can't compete with "weird optimism" (or thoughts and prayers). ;)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-NISSAN-PA ... e%3ANissan

Or, sell that thing as a mechanic's special and quit buying cars from wrecking yards.

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:04 pm
I'm probably wasting my energy here, because logic and experience can't compete with "weird optimism" (or thoughts and prayers). ;)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-NISSAN-PA ... e%3ANissan

Or, sell that thing as a mechanic's special and quit buying cars from wrecking yards.
thanx for the link. i may have to go the route obviously...

However, it is apparent my "blind optimism" is jarring to you lol. But i want to know why you think this engine is fried? going back in the history of the chat, you seemed to suggest that the head gasket was an issue at the time. however, it seems my lengthy responses, magic juice wants, and other naive hopefulness seemed to steer you away from diagnosis assistance at this point. I say all that to ask, what are you basing this "throw in the towel" stance on at this point? my wordy responses or legit correlation of symptoms? to be clear, i want to learn and i appreciate your responses thus far, but do me a solid on why i need to chuck this engine at this point?

Finally, if i can get the engine running-ish and working for some time/mileage, that is a win for me in the end (maybe that is where me and you differ). I don't care if it is sludged up still or misfires, as i am well aware of the risk with all this. I may of not made it apparent in the first post that i am handy with a wrench, but i just never dealt with this kind of engine issue before; but i am willing to dig into it. If anything, my copart scavenger hunts will prove more fruitful since i am learning new stuff :cool: thank you!

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AZhitman
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I'm almost 50 and have been running this show since 2002. Let's be clear: Nothing you say would be "jarring" to me. Optimism doesn't fix engines.

Wordy responses are nothing more than mental masturbatlon without useful and actionable diagnostic information. I've not been "steered away." You haven't taken the steps to diagnose the issue. Let's not be confused as to whose responsibility that is. We're not here to entertain, we're here to help.

A compression test and leakdown test would be a good start. Poking around in the dark, while claiming to be "handy with a wrench" are not helpful in the least. The car was in Copart for a reason. We STILL are lacking that information (easily obtained with a VIN search).

Take note: Sludge indicates neglect. Neglect means wear. Wear means rebuild. This isn't guessing, this is empirical knowledge, gleaned from actually rebuilding engines. That crap isn't going to vanish magically. It has to be mechanically removed, usually via hot-tanking the block (the first step in a proper rebuild).

Even new headgaskets aren't going to resolve the sludge and wear in the bottom end (I'm betting the head is as f***ed as the bottom end based on what I see in the oil fill).

I think I said it earlier: Drive it until it explodes, or fix it right. There's no in-between and there's no "easy" fix. Either you're willing to do a full teardown and rebuild, or you're not. A replacement longblock is cheaper than the machine shop bill (again, not simply my opinion, but empirical knowledge). I deal in facts. Not feelings.

I'm glad you're here, and I love your enthusiasm - I'm not always warm and fuzzy, but neither are mechanical issues. Hope that helps.

splash1995
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AZhitman wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:42 pm
I'm almost 50 and have been running this show since 2002. Let's be clear: Nothing you say would be "jarring" to me. Optimism doesn't fix engines.

Wordy responses are nothing more than mental masturbatlon without useful and actionable diagnostic information. I've not been "steered away." You haven't taken the steps to diagnose the issue. Let's not be confused as to whose responsibility that is. We're not here to entertain, we're here to help.

A compression test and leakdown test would be a good start. Poking around in the dark, while claiming to be "handy with a wrench" are not helpful in the least. The car was in Copart for a reason. We STILL are lacking that information (easily obtained with a VIN search).

Take note: Sludge indicates neglect. Neglect means wear. Wear means rebuild. This isn't guessing, this is empirical knowledge, gleaned from actually rebuilding engines. That crap isn't going to vanish magically. It has to be mechanically removed, usually via hot-tanking the block (the first step in a proper rebuild).

Even new headgaskets aren't going to resolve the sludge and wear in the bottom end (I'm betting the head is as f***ed as the bottom end based on what I see in the oil fill).

I think I said it earlier: Drive it until it explodes, or fix it right. There's no in-between and there's no "easy" fix. Either you're willing to do a full teardown and rebuild, or you're not. A replacement longblock is cheaper than the machine shop bill (again, not simply my opinion, but empirical knowledge). I deal in facts. Not feelings.

I'm glad you're here, and I love your enthusiasm - I'm not always warm and fuzzy, but neither are mechanical issues. Hope that helps.
Mental masturbatlon! Haha I don’t think there is a better way to really put that about my posts. On point lol.

I do plan on doing the compression test and leakdown test once I visibly inspect the other bank, mostly because I never actually done that on an engine, but it seems straight forward according to the interwebs. I am hoping (lol) that I don’t have blown piston rings, but I guess I will know for sure by doing those tests.
As far as the sludge, I am with you that this engine has been neglected, and there doesn’t seem to be any good way to clean that out with tearing down the engine completely. My plan (if the piston rings are not shot) was to add run an engine sludge remover through it, drop the pan and clean out what I can, and of course physically clean the valve covers and any other nook and cranny I can get to from the top. I will give seafoam or something similar a try to clean up the cylinders after all that. Yes, I know, a far cry from what you are suggesting, but I don’t mind throwing magic juices at it at that point.

Once I tear it down to the head gasket, I can probably determine if there are any other issues with the cylinder block or not buy visual inspection, but I will cross that bridge when I get there. Compared to the BMW X5 I was working on prior to this car, this Pathfinder as plenty of room to work in around the engine bay thank god. Getting that timing cover off is probably going to be the hardest part I think though...

As far as copart goes, I do have the VIN history off the lot at the time, and I didn’t see anything alarming. Surprisingly, I would technically be the 3rd owner at this point. It was listed as “run / start” and had no mechanical issues noted. Later research showed it was a repo off some lady in my area, BUT, I bought it sight unseen, so that is on me for being a dumba** on that part. Maybe running it at the yard for a few minutes would have revealed the smoking issue. Plus, it wasn’t smoking when I took delivery and after I got it smogged, so I think just driving it around and putting fresh oil/coolant in it made its issues apparent after some time (but who knows). Life lesson but I know that this can happen of course.
Thanx again for the insight and banter.

splash1995
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Well I am going out of country for a month. When I get back, I will tackle this issue again. for those that are following (and wondering wtf is going with this dude’s posts lol), this is what’s next in my mind.

1. Visual inspection of cylinders 1, 3, and 5. If clean-ish for some reason, do a cart wheel down the garage and proceed to the next step. Otherwise, cry about it and show pictures on there again lol

2. Do the leakdown and compression test on both banks. There is Autozone and O’Reilly’s in my area, so I am guessing I can rent the equipment for them. Open to words of advice on doing these tests on this engine. IF numbers look good, do a cart wheel down the garage and crack a beer. Otherwise, going to go the junk yard route for an engine, or drag it back to copart and work something out to recoup costs.

3. Assuming the piston rings are good, I am going to take it down to the cylinder block and replace the head gaskets at the minimum. I will deal with the sludge the best I can as well.
That’s about it for now and Happy New Years!

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AZhitman
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You're a good sport, and if you follow through, you're gonna learn a ton (and maybe help others in the process).

Compression tester is cheap: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=compression+tester

Safe travels.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Yeah I'd torch that thing and collect the insurance or just replace the entire engine and pray that CVT doesn't let go just after engine replacement.

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Sending good money after bad.

I've known of some less than scrupulous people who run the thickest lubricant that will flow out of a bottle, before selling a vehicle - in a bid to mask such issues.

I'd not even bother rebuilding that engine, it's probably seen enough magic-in-a-bottle to clog an artery. Fix the head gasket (with all your novice) and the piston rings rear their ugly head. Then the CVT...then something else that gives up the ghost due to the various brands of snake oil catching up to it.

VQ35DEs are cheap and plenty. Pitch that boat anchor & buy an engine with a warranty - perhaps from LKQ or other reputable seller.

As mentioned, a late model vehicle with decent cosmetics & mileage does not end up at Copart because of how much hope the owner has for it. Whoever took it to Copart had good reason to.

Best of luck on this trip.

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PalmerWMD
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AZhitman wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:04 pm
I'm probably wasting my energy here, because logic and experience can't compete with "weird optimism" (or thoughts and prayers). ;)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-NISSAN-PA ... e%3ANissan

Or, sell that thing as a mechanic's special and quit buying cars from wrecking yards.
Wow thats a good price on that motor!!!!

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PalmerWMD
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Been following this thread.. Good on the OP for posting up a lot of details and good on the Greybeards for their sage advice.

splash1995
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Ok, I am back! And, I spent no time putting my wrench back to work lol. Here is the latest...

1. I took off the intake manifold collector to get to the other spark plug wells. I noticed quite a bit of oil oozing out of it once I got it off, but mostly from the PCV port. But there was some slight fluid build-up on the inside bottom of the throttle body plate though, which I think is odd to have oil that far up the intake. I doesn’t look like I can take the actual intake apart more, so I have it sitting in a way to let the oil drain out of it. The gasket looked fine on it and it doesn’t seem to have any issues that I can see. I left it off for the compression check later on.

2. Unfortunately, that is no happy cart wheels in the garage or cracking of beers after I peeked into cylinders 1,3, and 5 :mad: . They look like the same baked up cylinders as the other ones. Here are cylinders and the spark plugs. Sorry, I took crappy pics, but it looks basically like the other ones. Oh, I did take a look at the back of that valves since I had the intake off, and they looked clean and not damaged at all. I am guessing due to the fuel being injected behind them and cleaning them anyways. A small win I guess...

Image
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3. After that inspection, I got myself a compression tester from Autozone. It only has a 5 PSI gauge resolution, so I rounded my readings as appropriate. I used the process outlined in the service manuals found on this site and it was pretty straight forward. Some words of caution though, make sure to have all spark plugs holes open. I left the ignition coils in on the other spark plug holes to act as covers once the spark plugs were removed earlier...and I forgot to remove them all when I ran the first test. Let’s just say, flying ignition coils sound scary as hell when you do this test for the first time ever in your life lol. I thought I destroyed the engine on that first test somehow! Now I have to fish around the engine bay to get them all, as they all popped off somewhere once the pressure got high enough lol. Anyways, here are the readings I got and some other notes.

Cylinder #1: 175 PSI
Cylinder #2: 160 PSI
Cylinder #3: 175 PSI
Cylinder #4: 160 PSI
Cylinder #5: 175 PSI
Cylinder #6: 160 PSI

Well, it looks like my piston rings are good-ish...Standard is 185 PSI, with a minimum of 142 PSI. BUUUUT this was on a cold engine, not a hot engine, which is how the service manual tells you to do it. Also of note, the car will crank itself 10 times automatically and then stop. I couldn’t control the number of cranks by releasing the brake or anything, so there isn’t any reason to count the cranks when you do this test. It was just me doing the tests, so I would hook up the compression tester, get in the car and crank it, then come out and see the readings. I did make a video of one of the tests to see if there were issues on each crank, but the pressure built up uniformly and quickly in that video.

3a. Analysis: So, here is my thoughts on the compression test results (flawed thoughts lol). First, each cylinder bank is uniform, so that is good I am guessing. There is a 15 PSI difference between banks, which may not matter in the grand scheme of things, but maybe someone smarter than me can chime on that. I will say there is a 14 PSI differential spec between cylinders from the service manual, but I think they mean from the cylinders in the same bank, not across from each other (if that matters?). Also, the cold engine is going to have different readings from a hot engine, due to piston ring expansion and oil viscosity changes. But I figure a cold engine compression test is a “worst” case test, and compression will only get “better” once the rings expanded and the oil lubes up the piston better. Regardless, I would have to put everything back together again to just to start the engine up, let it warm up (and smoke constantly), than take everything apart again. Plus, the way the engine sits in the car, there isn’t an easy way to do a compression test, without taking everything apart to do it. That is waaay to much of hassle at this point lol. Finally, the service manual and the instructions for the compression tester have plenty of troubleshooting tips depending on the test results. I am not going to re-hash all of them here, but my test results don’t seem to indicate anything wrong with the piston rings (surprisingly). Finally, I will note I just did 6 compression tests (one test each cylinder), nothing else, and that’s it. I didn’t do anything beyond hooking up the tester and cranking the engine.

4. So what’s next? Well, I am going to take one of the valve covers off to see what the sludge issue looks like. But I wanted to get this compression test info posted beforehand to see if anyone chimes in on it while I work that. Because all I know for sure at this point is that I still have coolant loss (head gasket most likely) and the engine is burning oil up, but I don’t know how oil is getting in there at this point. Looking at the intake manifold collector and seeing the oil in there makes me think the oil is some how being forced into it (via PCV?), and them makes it way back down to the combustion chamber and burned up. Oh! I forgot to mention that there are oil trails in the intake manifold (where intake manifold collector connects to) and it seems like oil is making it way in that way possibly. :gotme

splash1995
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EdBwoy wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:43 am
Sending good money after bad.

I've known of some less than scrupulous people who run the thickest lubricant that will flow out of a bottle, before selling a vehicle - in a bid to mask such issues.

I'd not even bother rebuilding that engine, it's probably seen enough magic-in-a-bottle to clog an artery. Fix the head gasket (with all your novice) and the piston rings rear their ugly head. Then the CVT...then something else that gives up the ghost due to the various brands of snake oil catching up to it.

VQ35DEs are cheap and plenty. Pitch that boat anchor & buy an engine with a warranty - perhaps from LKQ or other reputable seller.

As mentioned, a late model vehicle with decent cosmetics & mileage does not end up at Copart because of how much hope the owner has for it. Whoever took it to Copart had good reason to.

Best of luck on this trip.
thank you for the info on the motors. I may end up going that route after i ask around town to see if an auto shop can swap the motor out for me. i found a youtube video about taking the motor out of a 2014 pathfinder surprisingly, and the dude in it was saying, "it is actually easy to do" lol. I saw the first frame of that video and i was like there is no way i can do this in my garage, nor do i have that kind of time lol. the link is below if anyone wants to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01moP2XYVX8

splash1995
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Sooo...I managed to get the rocker covers off today as well. The only issue was getting an engine wiring harness off its clip and out of the way of a bolt I needed to get off. I couldn’t figure it out and I just ended up breaking the small clip it was attached to and prying it out of the way lol. The service manual didn’t mention anything about that part, but maybe it was in a different section since it was relating to an engine harness and not the rocker cover it was attached too. Either way, the clip is broken and I don’t care lol. But now, behold the chocolate covered mess I got going on!

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

As you can see there is plenty of sludge in there. I am guessing from the hue of the sludge (you can’t really tell from the pics, but it is green-ish) there is/was coolant mixed in with the oil. I stemmed that tide with my magic juice sealers, but I am sure it was way worst before I got to it. General interwebs consensus is to leave that sludge alone and not try to clean it all up with chemicals. Mostly because chucks will clog up passages and oil filter/screens anyways, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. Thoughts on this?

I was thinking a spray bottle full of some kind of degreaser/brake cleaner and what not, target spray around inside, and use clothes for manual cleaning of the really thick sludge areas. Intent is the spray fluid will just drain down to the pan with all the thinned-up sludge, but I will have that all open and it will just slop down into a catch pan. I was going to leave the polished surfaces alone since I don’t want to mar them or have them rust. Speaking of the polish surfaces of the cams, they look great, and don’t show any scoring or anything. Either way, the actual covers will be cleaned up and all that, so hopefully any blocked passages will be opened up after all that. I am totally open to tips and tricks for cleaning all this sludge up while it is open.

Next, I am going to work on getting to the cylinder heads tomorrow. Of course, step one of that process in the service manual is take the engine out of the car lol! I can’t do that, so I will try doing it in the car, but I can tell the working area is going to be suuuuper tight. The front of the engine faces a wheel well and only the bottom section of the timing chain cover is really open once I take the front wheel off that is blocking that area. I am open to any suggestions on tackling this part.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Damn, that thing has been neglected.

splash1995
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Soooo I would like to bring this thread to some semblance of a conclusion. First, I never got to the cylinder gaskets lol. I started on the timing chain cover and just got fed up with all the work that was going to take and the small area to work in. Plus, why would I go this far with a sludge up engine at this point? I was warned already about that and it just came to the forefront when I saw how much more hours/work I would have to do it while the engine is in the car. I also didn’t want to mess with the timing chain and cams, since you can really jack up the engine if you do it wrong. So, I stopped and put it all back together again. Of course, this meant I had at least the car running again, but still in smoke machine mode unfortunately. But this isn’t the end lol. I did a lot since and here is the final state (ish) concerning the smoking and blown head gasket.

1. The coolant leak through head gasket has been fixed-ish! The interwebs are a great place to learn and I found you can run plain tap water just fine in your cooling system. I also found that every other gasket sealer mentions to drain your cooling system, and then fill with water and the sealer to fix your coolant leak. Also, plain water makes steam, but typical 50/50 coolant mix makes steam and smoke when burned. Since I want to still drive this car around to troubleshoot it, I needed to reduce the smoking and I figured a steam show is way more bearable than a full-on smoke show at start-up. Well that worked amazingly well lol! The car doesn’t smoke at start-up at all now. This took a couple drive cycles off course, but running just water and using gasket sealers worked better for me than using it in coolant mix like I was doing before. I will list what I did in order of attempts, and what product I used. I will note that I used all these products as they instructed.

a. K-Seal Permanent Coolant Leak Repair: I used this stuff first because it worked with a BMW I had with a coolant leak. I was running 50/50 coolant mix and dumped it in the radiator. Didn’t seem to work and still smoked at start-up after a couple drive cycles.

b. Bar's Leaks 1111 Block Seal Permanent Head Gasket Fix: I was running 50/50 coolant mix and dumped it in the radiator. I eventually took the top radiator hose off and dump this stuff in there. Waaay faster that trying to do in the radiator cap hole, plus it fast tracked it to the cylinder heads. Didn’t seem to work and still smoked at start-up after a couple drive cycles.

c. Bar's Leaks 1111 Block Seal Permanent Head Gasket Fix (again): This time I was running just water after I drained the cooling system. That seemed to be the magic ticket, because I don’t seem to be consuming water anymore after numerous drive cycles. Basically, that car made steam at first, but it got less and less as I used the car. I will keep tabs on the coolant reservoir to see if it truly is fixed though.

d. Coolant leak conclusion: I don’t seem to be leaking water from the cylinder anymore. That eliminated the start-up smoke cloud at least. I don’t see any steam/water coming out of the tailpipe anymore either. I suspect running water with these gasket sealers (most need too anyways) instead of the coolant mix allows it to work better. Also, I stuck to these copper-based sealers because that was what I got floating around in there anyways, and I didn’t want to chance having more issues by mixing other types in there. I do have a question for the crowd though. I know just running water will likely start making the cooling system rust and what not. Is there some kind of additive (not coolant lol) that will at least keep corrosion down? I live in a desert so I might be able to run just water most of the year, hence why I am asking. Plus, if the leak isn’t really sealed completely, I can deal with steam clouds as opposed to coolant clouds lol. But now with this under control I was able to work on the next issue below.

2. As mentioned before the intake manifold was FULL of oil when I took it off and I know that isn’t normal at all. I suspected this is what was eating my oil up and making more smoke. Cue interweb searches... It seems the 350Z/Infinti dudes with the same engine bypass the PCV system on their cars to control oil consumption. Well that got me thinking...I did notice oil dripping from the PCV parts when I replaced a burned through rubber hose there. Then, I noticed I had an oil filled intake manifold when I worked to get the rocker covers off. Conclusion: I was somehow getting oil sucked right through the PCV into the intake manifold, and then being sucked right into the combustion chamber. The easy fix: just eliminate the PCV side and cut the flow of oil into the intake manifold lol. Here is what I did in detail.

a. I found a youtube vid on doing what I just said for this engine and followed what they did. I went to autozone and found a cheap breather filter and a pack of vacuum caps. I then disconnected the rubber tube between PCV and the intake manifold. I left the PCV in there, as it is new, and just clamped the breather filter to it. I then capped the intake manifold port with those caps I got. Done. Well not really. In the youtube vid comments it was mentioned to drill out the PCV so it was open to atmosphere completely. I did not do this. The Nissan service manual has an air flow diagram for the PCV system on the engine and that side only flows out, not in. So, I think it is better to leave the valve intact, as when there is vacuum in the crankcase area, outside air will not get sucked in there via the drilled out PCV. I also tested this by blowing on the thread side hole of the PCV (the old one I had) and air flowed out. Blowing from the other side made the valve close. But someone smarter can chime on that if need be. Oh, and I haven’t noticed any weird issues so far. No oil sprayed out in the PCV area. Engine idles fine. But I am sure there are gases that come out of course, so long term it might get cruddy in that area...

b. I also left the intake manifold on with all that oil I know that is just sitting in there, but I needed to clean that out. Lazy way...just run the car and let it burn it all off lol. It took awhile for the car to suck down all that oil in there, which it would make large smoke clouds off course. I just ran the car parked and rev it up over some time until the clouds got less and less. Then drove it hard got the rest out after a while. During all this I was finally able to see the “blue” smoke everyone says burning oil makes. I couldn’t tell before because coolant was burning too lol. I will say it isn’t smoking driving (WOT too) around anymore or at all to be honest. It doesn’t even smoke at start-up either. However, I will keep tabs on the oil consumption moving forward, but I can’t imagine it being anywhere near what it was lol.

Conclusion (for realz lol): For those keeping track...why the heck was that much oil blowing through the PCV?! Well I must have really high crankcase pressure or something, but I am going to make a new thread just about all that later on. For now, I have my smoke show under control and that is all I care about right now. I hope all this help someone dealing with similar issues and just needs the car to work-ish and not make embarrassing smoke shows all the time.


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