2013 Rogue - experienced my first CVT slippage

[DTASFAB]

I can't wait for things to come! This is likely not a failure of any sort, but highly annoying nonetheless. This happened to me over the weekend with approximately 4300 miles on the car. I now have almost 4500 miles.

I exited an interstate where I had been driving approximately 65-75mph for several miles. The exit ramp is up an incline and has a traffic light at the top of the hill. As I exited the highway, I shifted into neutral and coasted up the ramp, coming to a full stop at a yellow light. I was the first car there, and I kept my foot on the brake with the transmission still in neutral for the entire light cycle. The incline at this location was not steep, but substantial enough that I would have rolled backwards if I didn't keep my foot on the brake.

So I sat there fiddling with the radio and basically getting distracted until the light turned green, by which time, I had forgotten that I was still in neutral. I gently pressed the gas pedal and I heard the engine rev, but I didn't move. I realized why, and immediately, I shifted into drive, which has always worked for me in cars with a real transmission. Only now, in the Rogue, the CVT didn't catch, and I waddled along into the intersection, moving about 1-2 mph with the engine revving at 4-5 thousand RPMs as I turned left and stopped in the center island.

I put it into park, and sat for about 30 seconds to let everything calm down and reset. Then I proceeded on my way, and I haven't felt any slippage since. When we talk about these CVTs being extraordinarily delicate and sensitive, it's no joke! I still think they're basically reliable when properly maintained, but damn. It's not like I was flooring it when I shifted from neutral into gear. I was only giving it enough gas for an ordinary, gentle start off the line into a turn, and still, the CVT didn't catch like I was expecting it to, like a real transmission would have.

[followingnfront]

Personally, I dont think you should be shifting into neutral at 65mph or while moving at all... That is definitely not good for a transmission. God forbid you have to start accelerating again while going 55mph and you shift back into drive.... Plus, you wear out your brakes faster because now there is an absence of engine braking....

However, while taxing on the transmission, I dont think what you did was necessarily normal behavior for a cvt... Ive seen guys at dealerships in service departments shift from drive to neutral and back with vehicles rolling because they are in too much of a hurry to stop the car first while making a u turn..... The cars still pop into gear (with added wear that may surface thousands of miles down the road but still....).

So while I dont agree with the practice of shifting into neutral at speed/while slowing down, I still think your Rogue should have popped into gear when you shifted into drive.

[ImStricken06]

i never understood why people do strand rituals, hoping to somehow gain something. its like old mentality: "instead of using the window so much to drop the toll-change, i'm gonna open the door instead, and reach around to drop the change" (to somehow preserve the window motor/actuator.)

what people dont realize, is playing around, thinking you are saving yourself fuel, by letting your engine idle while you coast - its screwing with the on board computers. things are confused. they don't understand whats happening. remember: thing are different now a days. EVERYTHING has a computer/sensor attached to it. as soon as you touch your brake pedal, the transmission starts to disengage in a way. your TQ starts to get signals to adjust itself.
people... stop playing your cars. just drive them as they should be. #EndRant

i think your car wanted to stabilize the RPM before engaging the transmission. or i think it was so confused, it needed to perform some kind of a system check before engaging. i think it will be fine from now on. just quit playing with it lol

[kerrton]

Well said.

The CVT didn't "slip", you likely just confused the computer by messing around, the fact that everything worked fine after you put it into Park is a good indicator of this. You actually use a lot more fuel when coasting in Neutral than if you leave the car in gear and coast in "D" - coasting in "D" uses the momentum of the car to turn the engine and shuts off the fuel injectors using no fuel, if you're coasting in "N" the car has to burn fuel to keep the engine running.

And the CVT is a "real" transmission, its just a different design, your chances of it being a long-term reliable and durable transmission should be just as good or better than a conventional transmission, depending on which make and model your comparing to. People do have lots of problems with conventional transmission's all the time!

[ImStricken06]

shuts off the fuel injectors using no fuel

ever try and shut off a car, while in drive? lmfao that biznatch will stop so fast - it will whip lash you.

coasting in D, does use SOME fuel - but not a lot. there is still some load placed upon the engine to keep it at the very least able to idle.

[followingnfront]

ever try and shut off a car, while in drive? lmfao that biznatch will stop so fast - it will whip lash you.

Why is that? I. Wouldd imagine it would just roll until it stops

[DTASFAB]

ever try and shut off a car, while in drive? lmfao that biznatch will stop so fast - it will whip lash you.

Why is that? I. Wouldd imagine it would just roll until it stops

How is it any different than stalling out?

[TrevorK]

coasting in D, does use SOME fuel - but not a lot. there is still some load placed upon the engine to keep it at the very least able to idle.

I believe in many modern cars they are more efficient coasting in D than they are coasting in N:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/al ... el-economy

As for the original post, I think the problems you are experiencing would exist with any vehicle that has a transmission which is highly computerized. I think there are a lot of checks/balances/calculations/safety features that exist with a modern vehicle. When you drive in a manner that was not anticipated, the vehicle can sometimes react poorly. It may even be difficult to reproduce that exact situation, because you might be dealing with something where milliseconds matter. Personally, I would not worry about this as a "problem" that needs to be rectified unless you keep noticing it happening.

[ImStricken06]

ever try and shut off a car, while in drive? lmfao that biznatch will stop so fast - it will whip lash you.

Why is that? I. Wouldd imagine it would just roll until it stops

the engine creates a TON of drag. coasting in D still uses fuel - just less than if you were on cruise control.

[followingnfront]

I'm confused... What happens when you turn off the engine of a car while driving (in drive) that causes the car to stop short?

[ImStricken06]

I'm confused... What happens when you turn off the engine of a car while driving (in drive) that causes the car to stop short?

izakly son! lol it will stop really-really short. much shorter than if you simply let off the throttle while driving 65mph.

[sprocket]

Personally, I don't see any merit in shifting to neutral when driving/stopping.

If your vehicle is in motion and you shift to neutral but suddenly need to accelerate (say to avoid a distracted driver, etc), you've basically disabled acceleration. If you're going downhill, coasting in neutral will not provide any engine braking which to an unexperienced driver, can result in loss of brakes or loss of vehicle control.

While there's less drag when coasting in neutral which in theory means less loss of energy, I've noticed that the instantaneous fuel economy gauge "maxes" out at 75+ mpg when I'm coasting for the most part, until my speed drops low enough for the torque converter to disengage. I feel that leaving it in drive as I coast to a stop is safer and more predictable and doesn't "waste" gas as much as some people may think and has less wear on the brakes.

I've also noticed that the engine actually "idles" lower in drive when the brake is pressed than in park/neutral in my experience, so shifting to neutral actually increases engine idle speed slightly which burns more gas, no? Not to mention the wear on transmission to shift in and out of drive.

To each their own I guess ... I know there are people on both side of the fences when it comes to leaving it in D vs. shifting to neutral when coasting/park when stopped

[followingnfront]

I'm confused... What happens when you turn off the engine of a car while driving (in drive) that causes the car to stop short?

izakly son! lol it will stop really-really short. much shorter than if you simply let off the throttle while driving 65mph.

Lol... Im asking what causes it though... How is it different from coasting in neutral? Nothing is propelling the vehicle in either instance

[followingnfront]

Personally, I don't see any merit in shifting to neutral when driving/stopping.

If your vehicle is in motion and you shift to neutral but suddenly need to accelerate (say to avoid a distracted driver, etc), you've basically disabled acceleration. If you're going downhill, coasting in neutral will not provide any engine braking which to an unexperienced driver, can result in loss of brakes or loss of vehicle control.

While there's less drag when coasting in neutral which in theory means less loss of energy, I've noticed that the instantaneous fuel economy gauge "maxes" out at 75+ mpg when I'm coasting for the most part, until my speed drops low enough for the torque converter to disengage. I feel that leaving it in drive as I coast to a stop is safer and more predictable and doesn't "waste" gas as much as some people may think and has less wear on the brakes.

I've also noticed that the engine actually "idles" lower in drive when the brake is pressed than in park/neutral in my experience, so shifting to neutral actually increases engine idle speed slightly which burns more gas, no? Not to mention the wear on transmission to shift in and out of drive.

To each their own I guess ... I know there are people on both side of the fences when it comes to leaving it in D vs. shifting to neutral when coasting/park when stopped

Im with you... I notice alot of people with stickshifts drop it into neutral too at all speeds when they know theyre ultimately coming to a stop too... And I never understood that... The whole point of having a stick is having ultimate control... Downshifting for engine braking and immediate acceleration if you need it... Duh... I miss having a manual :-(

[DTASFAB]

And the CVT is a "real" transmission, its just a different design

Sorry, a metal box containing two pulleys is not a transmission. A real transmission has GEARS, plural. Nissan can claim their CVT has "infinite" gears, but in reality, it has one gear that is adjustable.

I'm confused... What happens when you turn off the engine of a car while driving (in drive) that causes the car to stop short?

izakly son! lol it will stop really-really short. much shorter than if you simply let off the throttle while driving 65mph.

I still don't understand how it's any different than stalling out.

Going back to the original topic, I'm starting to agree that it doesn't make sense to slide into neutral to coast up an incline and then stop at the top of the hill. But coasting down a long hill of 2+ miles can save gas. There is a hill like this on my way home from work every day where the speed limit is 40 and everyone routinely drives 50. I can coast in neutral starting at 40 at the top and when I'm at the bottom I'm right around 50. If I do the same in drive, I have to continually counter the engine braking by giving it more gas to gain speed and maintain momentum around 50 mph. Obviously this wastes gas.

Additionally, I don't think the problem I described in my OP was caused by computer confusion that resulted specifically from coasting up the ramp as I approached the light. The car had been sitting in neutral and not moving with my foot on the brake at the red light for at least 30-45 seconds after I had finished coasting up the hill. If 30 seconds was enough time for everything to recalibrate itself after the slippage occurred and I was sitting in the center island after the turn, it certainly would have been long enough to recover from coasting up a hill. I think the reason this problem occurred is because I was giving the engine too much gas and the RPMs were too high when I shifted from neutral into drive, and the CVT couldn't handle it. Whether it was a physical/mechanical problem and the belts inside the CVT slipped, or if the computer erroneously thought the transmission was trying to go into limp mode, I can't say.

[DTASFAB]

Im with you... I notice alot of people with stickshifts drop it into neutral too at all speeds when they know theyre ultimately coming to a stop too... And I never understood that... The whole point of having a stick is having ultimate control... Downshifting for engine braking and immediate acceleration if you need it... Duh... I miss having a manual :-(

In your first post, you said shifting into neutral while moving is not good for the transmission. But every time you shift, you're actually briefly shifting into neutral while you're between gears. How is shifting into neutral, coasting for a while, and then shifting back into gear causing any additional wear that you wouldn't get by downshifting immediately? The amount of time you spend in neutral doesn't matter if your only concern is wearing out the transmission.

[ImStricken06]

How is it different from coasting in neutral? Nothing is propelling the vehicle in either instance

WHEN IN GEAR/DRIVE: your wheels are mechanically connected to your transmission. your transmission (when in D/gear) is mechanically connected to your engine.
WHEN IN NEUTRAL: your wheels are mechanically connected to your transmission. (and thats it.) the engine is NOT connected mechanically to your transmission. thats why you can rev your engine and you wont go anywhere. so thats MUCH LESS drag coming back to your wheels. which in result doesnt slow you down as fast, as if you were driving along in gear, and turned the engine off.

[followingnfront]

Im with you... I notice alot of people with stickshifts drop it into neutral too at all speeds when they know theyre ultimately coming to a stop too... And I never understood that... The whole point of having a stick is having ultimate control... Downshifting for engine braking and immediate acceleration if you need it... Duh... I miss having a manual :-(

In your first post, you said shifting into neutral while moving is not good for the transmission. But every time you shift, you're actually briefly shifting into neutral while you're between gears. How is shifting into neutral, coasting for a while, and then shifting back into gear causing any additional wear that you wouldn't get by downshifting immediately? The amount of time you spend in neutral doesn't matter if your only concern is wearing out the transmission.

My concern of damage is for an automatic trans by shifting in and out of neutral in a scenario like yours...

A stick is different. I was just saying that people who have manuals and dont downshift when coming to a stop, but rather shift into neutral are doing it wrong.

[ImStricken06]

people who have manuals and dont downshift when coming to a stop, but rather shift into neutral are doing it wrong.

you are not supposed to downshift versus simply using your brakes. a clutch is nothing but a big brake pad. now ask yourself, loading up the clutch or loading up the brakes. which is easer and cheaper to change?

in a manual car, if you are coming up to a stop light/sign - drop it into neutral, and slow down. down shifting does nothing positive for you - even if your rev-match to reduce strain on your clutch.

[sprocket]

people who have manuals and dont downshift when coming to a stop, but rather shift into neutral are doing it wrong.

you are not supposed to downshift versus simply using your brakes. a clutch is nothing but a big brake pad. now ask yourself, loading up the clutch or loading up the brakes. which is easer and cheaper to change?

in a manual car, if you are coming up to a stop light/sign - drop it into neutral, and slow down. down shifting does nothing positive for you - even if your rev-match to reduce strain on your clutch.

See, I disagree ... you should keep it in gear until you've almost come to a stop and need to press the clutch in. Putting it in neutral may allow the car engine to stall and if that happens just when you're nearing a stop, loss of assisted braking and power steering can be dangerous when it happens unexpectedly.

[ImStricken06]

Putting it in neutral may allow the car engine to stall

its not supposed to stall, by being put into neutral. if that happens, you have a serious problem. by being left in gear, and slowing down - is when stalling becomes an issue. i have well over 100,000miles on a 5 & 6 speed manual btw.

[sprocket]

Putting it in neutral may allow the car engine to stall

its not supposed to stall, by being put into neutral. if that happens, you have a serious problem. by being left in gear, and slowing down - is when stalling becomes an issue. i have well over 100,000miles on a 5 & 6 speed manual btw.

I agree with you but what I meant to say is that if you have a car that is ... umm, not in the best of shape that may not idle right, then you can cause the engine to stall out if it's in neutral ... I'm sure you've seen (or been) that guy who is at a light revving it slightly in neutral before quickly shifting in to a gear! I've had to do it before on a friend's late 80's Prelude with a twin carburetor that wasn't quite running right during the winter, had it happen once in college in a late 80's Escort that didn't run right until it was properly warmed up. I don't miss the days of driving beaters but I must say, it was a lot of fun

I'm sad that manuals are a dying breed in the states ... I grew up driving a manual, first car in college was a manual, garage queen is also a manual! I'm hoping that there'll still be manuals in 15- 20 years so when I have kids, I can teach them how to drive one ... funny thing is, my wife feels the exact opposite and believes that they should not learn with a manual first! I have some time to change that

[ImStricken06]

yea but thats an exception. i dont want to talk about driving stick techniques, and have a wrench thrown into the convo via a car thats not operating properly.

[followingnfront]

people who have manuals and dont downshift when coming to a stop, but rather shift into neutral are doing it wrong.

you are not supposed to downshift versus simply using your brakes. a clutch is nothing but a big brake pad. now ask yourself, loading up the clutch or loading up the brakes. which is easer and cheaper to change?

in a manual car, if you are coming up to a stop light/sign - drop it into neutral, and slow down. down shifting does nothing positive for you - even if your rev-match to reduce strain on your clutch.

Im suggesting you use both your brakes and downshifting while slowing to a stop. Revmatch and Drop the clutch smoothly and now youre now in a gear and can simply hit the gas if you need to accelerate instead of having to spend more time shiftiing from neutral to drive (if youre in stop and go traffic for instance).

I also dont like it when someone is at a red light sitting there in neutral knowing that when the light turnsgreen theyre going to have to... umm... drive, yet they still wait there in neutral until the light turns green before they actually shift into gear.... Sit there in 1st and just go when the light turns lol

[ImStricken06]

i coast to a light; unless i sense some danger. and about 10seconds before the light turns green, im already in gear ready to go.

[followingnfront]

Hypothetical ImStricken, you are going 60 on the highway... This particular highway has traffic lights every so often (Jersey style lol), and 300-400 feet or so in front of you the light just turned yellow then quickly red... So you need to stop pretty quickly and hit the brakes pretty hard... Do you just use the brake with the clutch depressed or do you hit the brake and then switch out of 6th into 3rd, then 2nd and then depress the clutch at around 15mph?

[ImStricken06]

Hypothetical ImStricken, you are going 60 on the highway... This particular highway has traffic lights every so often (Jersey style lol), and 300-400 feet or so in front of you the light just turned yellow then quickly red... So you need to stop pretty quickly and hit the brakes pretty hard... Do you just use the brake with the clutch depressed or do you hit the brake and then switch out of 6th into 3rd, then 2nd and then depress the clutch at around 15mph?

again, there is no reason to load your clutch, to use it as an additional brake.
in a rear wheel drive (like my g37s coupe) that will easily lock up your rear tires. in a front wheel drive, that will place an obscene amount of stress on the clutch. with the weight of the car pushing the car forward, the engine creating drag, and the tires wanting to lock up = the clutch takes the beating (something has to give right?). its easier to replace brake pads, than clutch disks.

if i am doing 60, and i see the light go yellow; (and i decide to actually start slowing down) i will slip into neutral, and start slowing down. i will coast into the stop, and right before the light turns green i will already be in 1st