Help, We have a 2012 Nissan Altima. We've had it since March 2012 and it has been starting fine. Took it in for 2nd oil change and upon starting it at dealership, it took severals seconds of the starter cranking over before it started. Has done it now multiple times since and seems to do so more when it is warm but has been sitting for a while.
Took it back to dealership and they agree it did it for them too, however they do not have any idea what is wrong. Insisted they call Nissan tech who said they have has this problem reported to them and they do not know what is causing it either. Code is not coming up on computer.
Sounds like a vaccumn issue or fuel issue as once it is started and if turned off and restarted it doesn't do it again, starts right up.
Please please any help out there? We traded in other make of vehicle because of issues and we don't want to go through car trouble issues again. Any help most appreciated.
2012 hard start issue
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sstroudwku
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2014 Pathfinder - Location: Ravenna, Mi
Re: 2012 hard start issue
Unfortunately I have not seen this yet at my dealership. However based on previous models and the issues I've had to deal with associated with them the issue you describe sounds like a fuel pressure regulator is failing. Do me a favor and try this, without putting your foot on the gas turn the vehicle for to the ON position, allow it to sit there for 5-8seconds and then start it. If it fires right up you're looking at a fuel pressure issue. If it does the same thing than you're more likely looking at a failing crank or cam sensor and it's just not throwing a code yet.
Re: 2012 hard start issue
Thank you very much for the help, took your info to tech at dealership and he put fuel pressure gauge and found it was losing pressure down to zero and it just wouldn't hold the pressure so he is replacing it. Thanks again for the help or direction for us to look in.sstroudwku wrote:Unfortunately I have not seen this yet at my dealership. However based on previous models and the issues I've had to deal with associated with them the issue you describe sounds like a fuel pressure regulator is failing. Do me a favor and try this, without putting your foot on the gas turn the vehicle for to the ON position, allow it to sit there for 5-8seconds and then start it. If it fires right up you're looking at a fuel pressure issue. If it does the same thing than you're more likely looking at a failing crank or cam sensor and it's just not throwing a code yet.
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sstroudwku
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:47 pm
- Car: 2013 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 - BlueJean Blue
2014 Pathfinder - Location: Ravenna, Mi
Re: 2012 hard start issue
You are welcome, I'm glad you were able to get this issue resolved. Please ask the technician to send the information up to techline so other technicians chasing a similar problem have some database information.
Re: 2012 hard start issue
We are having a similar problem with our 2008 3.5 sedan. Background info: Purchased new; now has 78,000 km. Replaced the battery 1 year ago and just had it tested...it's 100%. The car is parked inside our garage, so this is not an extreme cold start issue.
Here's what is happening...a couple of months ago, my wife went to start the car (cold start) while I was out of town. It cranked over fine but wouldn't fire up. She tried this several times and then called me in distress. Not being able to do a thorough diagnosis over the phone, about the only thing I could suggest was to hold the gas pedal to the floor in the event that there was a flooding problem, however unlikely. I presume that the gas pedal to the floor method shuts off the fuel injection system, as it does in other makes, perhaps not. Regardless, the car didn't start. Being under extended warranty, I advised her to get it towed to the dealership. I followed up with the dealership and their diagnosis - dead battery!!! I challenged the service manager on this indicating that the car was cranking over just fine - the battery had lots of cranking power. Of course he deferred to a breakdown in communication between the front desk and the technician and said all he knew was they boosted the car and it started. I asked if a load test was done on the battery - no...so I had it done a couple of days later and the battery tested fine. I advised that I would take the car home and follow up on his diagnosis even though I doubted it's validity. The service manager said that the car would need a boost to get started in their lot, I said - let's see...the car started up just fine. The only other thing that I can add is about 3 years ago, I once started the car in cool fall temperatures, just to move it and it would have ran for less than a minute. The next day when I went to start it, it cranked over longer than usual, then fired up, knocking and black smoke from the exhaust. I thought that was strange, but never had the problem occur again. Of course, I couldn't get a straight answer from the service manager about how the car started after it was towed there, perhaps this happened again. Interestingly, the day before my wife had this problem I had started the car just to move it from the driveway to the garage - running for less than a minute.
Since this one time that the car was towed, it has not failed to start, but it certainly is not starting properly. It cranks over longer than usual (cold starts only) and seems to sputter or hesitate before getting to a full fire-up. Seems like it just barely catches, but it does. I've considered a possible fuel filter problem, but that seems to be a non-issue as these cars don't have a serviceable fuel filter. I've wondered if there is a fuel pressure problem and am considering taking it back to have this tested. It has not thrown any codes according to my OBDII code reader, but I am going to check the codes manually. It was also suggested in this thread that it could be a failing cam or crank sensor...or a possible vacuum issue. Before I go back to the dealer with these possible causes do you have any other suggestions?
Thanks
Here's what is happening...a couple of months ago, my wife went to start the car (cold start) while I was out of town. It cranked over fine but wouldn't fire up. She tried this several times and then called me in distress. Not being able to do a thorough diagnosis over the phone, about the only thing I could suggest was to hold the gas pedal to the floor in the event that there was a flooding problem, however unlikely. I presume that the gas pedal to the floor method shuts off the fuel injection system, as it does in other makes, perhaps not. Regardless, the car didn't start. Being under extended warranty, I advised her to get it towed to the dealership. I followed up with the dealership and their diagnosis - dead battery!!! I challenged the service manager on this indicating that the car was cranking over just fine - the battery had lots of cranking power. Of course he deferred to a breakdown in communication between the front desk and the technician and said all he knew was they boosted the car and it started. I asked if a load test was done on the battery - no...so I had it done a couple of days later and the battery tested fine. I advised that I would take the car home and follow up on his diagnosis even though I doubted it's validity. The service manager said that the car would need a boost to get started in their lot, I said - let's see...the car started up just fine. The only other thing that I can add is about 3 years ago, I once started the car in cool fall temperatures, just to move it and it would have ran for less than a minute. The next day when I went to start it, it cranked over longer than usual, then fired up, knocking and black smoke from the exhaust. I thought that was strange, but never had the problem occur again. Of course, I couldn't get a straight answer from the service manager about how the car started after it was towed there, perhaps this happened again. Interestingly, the day before my wife had this problem I had started the car just to move it from the driveway to the garage - running for less than a minute.
Since this one time that the car was towed, it has not failed to start, but it certainly is not starting properly. It cranks over longer than usual (cold starts only) and seems to sputter or hesitate before getting to a full fire-up. Seems like it just barely catches, but it does. I've considered a possible fuel filter problem, but that seems to be a non-issue as these cars don't have a serviceable fuel filter. I've wondered if there is a fuel pressure problem and am considering taking it back to have this tested. It has not thrown any codes according to my OBDII code reader, but I am going to check the codes manually. It was also suggested in this thread that it could be a failing cam or crank sensor...or a possible vacuum issue. Before I go back to the dealer with these possible causes do you have any other suggestions?
Thanks
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sstroudwku
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:47 pm
- Car: 2013 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 - BlueJean Blue
2014 Pathfinder - Location: Ravenna, Mi
Re: 2012 hard start issue
Dan,
I tried to PM you but you have them disabled for receiving. Here's what I had said.
To me this sounds like a fuel bleed off issue. The problem would lie in the sending unit/pump assy it self. There is a check valve in there that is supposed to hold 30psi of fuel in the main line to the rail assy. A properly operating fuel pump on that model should be holding 51psi while running, and then bleed off to around 30psi in the first 10minutes after shutting off the vehicle. I would have the fuel system checked for this possibility. That was the last year for that particular revision of the VQ35DE engine before it's revamp in 09 being introduced into the z51 Murano/Maxima platform. That engine did have Crank/Cam sensor issues but you should get a check engine light for those. Now a failing sensor may not initially give you a code. If you do, replace them with Nissan parts, all to often I've seen people replace these with autozone type parts and then end up bringing it to me for me to fix it. There is possibly an ECM update for your car, I can recall a cold start issue that was remedied with this. I hope this has helped, it really is hard to diag the car from the internet, however, you did a fantastic job explaining the problem to me. I wish I had customers like you everyday. If I can be of further assistance please let me know, if your local dealer continues to be useless please call your regional Nissan rep.
Steve
Jim Johnson Nissan
I tried to PM you but you have them disabled for receiving. Here's what I had said.
To me this sounds like a fuel bleed off issue. The problem would lie in the sending unit/pump assy it self. There is a check valve in there that is supposed to hold 30psi of fuel in the main line to the rail assy. A properly operating fuel pump on that model should be holding 51psi while running, and then bleed off to around 30psi in the first 10minutes after shutting off the vehicle. I would have the fuel system checked for this possibility. That was the last year for that particular revision of the VQ35DE engine before it's revamp in 09 being introduced into the z51 Murano/Maxima platform. That engine did have Crank/Cam sensor issues but you should get a check engine light for those. Now a failing sensor may not initially give you a code. If you do, replace them with Nissan parts, all to often I've seen people replace these with autozone type parts and then end up bringing it to me for me to fix it. There is possibly an ECM update for your car, I can recall a cold start issue that was remedied with this. I hope this has helped, it really is hard to diag the car from the internet, however, you did a fantastic job explaining the problem to me. I wish I had customers like you everyday. If I can be of further assistance please let me know, if your local dealer continues to be useless please call your regional Nissan rep.
Steve
Jim Johnson Nissan
Re: 2012 hard start issue
Hi Jim,
Thanks so much for your prompt and thorough response to my question(s)...sorry about the PM thing - I'll try to figure that out. And, thanks for your compliment on being a knowledgeable *customer*...like you, I wish I could say that about some of the service managers that I have dealt with.
I've been a car guy all my life so doing some further diagnosis is not a problem. I've got an '85 Corvette that keeps my fingers dirty! (I see you live in Bowling Green...gotta get to the NCM sometime soon.)
I agree, it does seem to be symptomatic of a fuel issue. I have a good fuel pressure tester and now that you've given me the numbers, I'll hook it up and see what numbers I get with the engine running, and shut off. According to my OBDII code reader, it hadn't thrown any codes when I checked it about a month ago, but I'll keep the Cam/Crank sensor issue in mind if the fuel pressure issue doesn't prove to be present. Good point about and ECM update - I'll definitely ask about this when it goes in...I presume that they should have received some kind of service bulletin on this??
I forgot to mention one other thing that I'm going to look into...last fall the dealership advised me that the master cylinder failed some kind of test that they were advised to do through a service bulletin and they changed the master cylinder. I'm thinking that there might be a vacuum issue caused by this repair when they monkeyed around with the plumbing in that area. I have never seen such horrible workmanship...when I brought the car home after that repair there was brake fluid leaking on my driveway and when I looked under the hood there was brake fluid all over the place even on top of the engine cover and the transmission casting crevices were full of it too. When I was wiping things down, I discovered that one of the hose clamps on an emissions tube had not be replaced and the air filter box which had been removed to get to the MC was loose. The technican had cross-threaded one of the retainer studs inside the air filter box and it was only turned in about 3/4 of a turn. So, who knows what else happened while he was in there. Coincidently, this cold start issue began shortly after this work was done...hmmm....I'm definitely going to check the hoses.
We really like this car and it's still under extended warranty. The 3.5 is an amazing power plant - just gotta get this bug figured out. I'll post any updates as they occur. I arranged with the dealership today to drop the car off on Monday night next week and I'll stop by on my way to work on Tuesday morning to do a cold start demo with a technican present.
Thanks so much for your prompt and thorough response to my question(s)...sorry about the PM thing - I'll try to figure that out. And, thanks for your compliment on being a knowledgeable *customer*...like you, I wish I could say that about some of the service managers that I have dealt with.
I've been a car guy all my life so doing some further diagnosis is not a problem. I've got an '85 Corvette that keeps my fingers dirty! (I see you live in Bowling Green...gotta get to the NCM sometime soon.)
I agree, it does seem to be symptomatic of a fuel issue. I have a good fuel pressure tester and now that you've given me the numbers, I'll hook it up and see what numbers I get with the engine running, and shut off. According to my OBDII code reader, it hadn't thrown any codes when I checked it about a month ago, but I'll keep the Cam/Crank sensor issue in mind if the fuel pressure issue doesn't prove to be present. Good point about and ECM update - I'll definitely ask about this when it goes in...I presume that they should have received some kind of service bulletin on this??
I forgot to mention one other thing that I'm going to look into...last fall the dealership advised me that the master cylinder failed some kind of test that they were advised to do through a service bulletin and they changed the master cylinder. I'm thinking that there might be a vacuum issue caused by this repair when they monkeyed around with the plumbing in that area. I have never seen such horrible workmanship...when I brought the car home after that repair there was brake fluid leaking on my driveway and when I looked under the hood there was brake fluid all over the place even on top of the engine cover and the transmission casting crevices were full of it too. When I was wiping things down, I discovered that one of the hose clamps on an emissions tube had not be replaced and the air filter box which had been removed to get to the MC was loose. The technican had cross-threaded one of the retainer studs inside the air filter box and it was only turned in about 3/4 of a turn. So, who knows what else happened while he was in there. Coincidently, this cold start issue began shortly after this work was done...hmmm....I'm definitely going to check the hoses.
We really like this car and it's still under extended warranty. The 3.5 is an amazing power plant - just gotta get this bug figured out. I'll post any updates as they occur. I arranged with the dealership today to drop the car off on Monday night next week and I'll stop by on my way to work on Tuesday morning to do a cold start demo with a technican present.
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sstroudwku
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:47 pm
- Car: 2013 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 - BlueJean Blue
2014 Pathfinder - Location: Ravenna, Mi
Re: 2012 hard start issue
There is not a TSB for the update, it was an engineer that had given me the information. However with their Consult III+ they can pull the part number for you ECM and check for an update. Make sure you request the confirmation printout when it's finished. This way you know it was actually performed. The recall you mentioned is a known Master Cylinder campaign. The plunger seal were defective in some and would leak fluid into the booster. To test this you removed the vacuum tube from the booster and shoved a pneumatic vacuum tool in the hole to see if you could suck fluid from the bottom. If so then the master cylinder was replaced. I don't see why they took so much apart to get it out typically you can do it much easier than the way you described. This recall even with the emission line left loose would not cause a cold start issue. Let me know if I can be of any other help.
Steve
Jim Johnson Nissan
Steve
Jim Johnson Nissan