2011 Rogue CVT vibration

[george168]

Picked up my 2011 Rogue SV AWD, like everything but one thing really bugs me: when I accelerate at around 1200rpm I can feel this vibration on the steering wheel. and the engine sounds like it is lugging (like manual shift gear too high for the speed).

Asked 2 dealers and they both say it is normal CVT behavior. It is designed this way to save gas. Well I wish they could take this "gas saving" feature away from my car! Is this issue only with Nissan CVT or is this with all CVTs? I am going nuts with a 30K car doing this.

Toronto Canada
1999 saturn SC
1997 mazda miata
2000 toyota avalon
2002 BMW 325ci
2011 Nissan Rogue

[casperfun]

Well get a strait jacket because that is the way it is. Or increase the volume of the radio until you have a good bass pumping. Or you can pretend it's a sports car thats vibrates.

Truly never really noticed it until I read it in this forum.

Darn this forum.

[Pescakl1]

Tap on the gas and here goes away the lugging vibration,... and the fuel economy.

Please don't forget to come back in a few months to complain you don't have the listed fuel economy.
When gas will hit the $2 barrier a liter, I believe you will start to enjoy this vibration.

[kerrton]

Hi George, welcome to the Rogue NICO forum!

What you are describing is completely normal for this powertrain, it is designed this way for optimum fuel economy as others have already stated. The trade-off for the gain in efficiency is some minor vibrations under the conditions you described. The sensation is somewhat like driving a manual transmission in a high gear at "around town" speeds - there is no danger of engine lugging or abnormal wear as this powertrain has been engineered to run this way under "light load" conditions, if you encounter resistence from a steep grade or you press on the accelerator the CVT will immediately select a slightly lower gear ratio and the vibration will disapear.

This is one of the hot topics with the Rogue and has been discussed at length in an existing thread, I encourage you to give it a read and you will find a more complete and more technical desciption of exactly what is happening with the CVT and engine:

concerns-about-cvt-trans-t295532.html

[george168]

Thanks for the explaination.

Do you know if other cars equipped with CVT (such as Subaru) also have the same kind of design? I would assume other manufacturers do the same to keep the MPG on par with Nissan...

[kerrton]

There are a lot of tricks and design features that are used to increase efficiency, each vehicle is unique of course and uses a combination of features such as weight reduction, electric power steering (as with the Rogue, no power steering hydraulic pump is used), engine and transmission programming etc. The Nissan engineers that designed the Rogue chose to agressively program the engine/trans for efficiency, which comes with trade-offs (ex. vibrations), and Subaru engineers would not necessarily have made the same decisions. I happen to know that the Subaru's are not nearly as efficient as the Nissan's, and specifically the Rogue beats the Forester in efficiency numbers.

I'm not an engineer but generally speaking I know that the Rogue engine and CVT trans programming is matched up to the specs of the 2.5QR engine. I've read that the QR has a very long stroke and various other design aspects that allows for the CVT "high gearing" programning that we're discussing here. This engine can accomodate the high gear ratios without suffering excessive wear whereas another 4-cylinder may not do so well under those conditions. Other engines such as those used by Subaru would have slightly different specs and engine/trans programming.

My point being, the Rogue powertrain and programming seems to be fairly unique, and I wouldn't necessarily expect other CVT equipped vehicles from competitors to run quite the same just because they share a similar designed transmission.

[philipa_240sx]

Thanks for the explaination.

Do you know if other cars equipped with CVT (such as Subaru) also have the same kind of design? I would assume other manufacturers do the same to keep the MPG on par with Nissan...

Chrysler and Mitsubishi also use the same Jatco CVT's. However I understand each use their own CVT computer so the tuning will be noticeably different from Nissan's. Not sure if they have the same vibration.

[RogueGuy45]

Picked up my 2011 Rogue SV AWD, like everything but one thing really bugs me: when I accelerate at around 1200rpm I can feel this vibration on the steering wheel. and the engine sounds like it is lugging (like manual shift gear too high for the speed).

Asked 2 dealers and they both say it is normal CVT behavior. It is designed this way to save gas. Well I wish they could take this "gas saving" feature away from my car! Is this issue only with Nissan CVT or is this with all CVTs? I am going nuts with a 30K car doing this.

Toronto Canada
1999 saturn SC
1997 mazda miata
2000 toyota avalon
2002 BMW 325ci
2011 Nissan Rogue

Let up on the gas a little or push it down harder. You are lugging the engine. I don't think it's that hard to understand. A CVT doesn't slip like a regular transmission,that is why it is so efficient. I have learned to let the engine and the CVT automatically "mesh" on their own by being much lighter on the gas pedal.

Two things have happened-the shudder has disappeared and the gas milage has increased to the top of the milage estimate on the sticker.

The only issue is the occasional impatient drivers zooming around you so they can catch the next red light one slot ahead.

[george168]

after 1000 KM it is much smoother now...maybe i learned how to drive cvt...lol

[rogue murano]

ASK YOUR DEALER WHERE THE VIBRATION IS COMING FROM AND WHAT ARE THE SPECS FOR VIBRATION. THE DEALER SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU THE ALLOWABLE AMOUNT OF vibration before there is a issue. IF THEY CANT TELL YOU THE SPECS HAVE THEM WRITE ON THE REPAIR ORDER THEY DONT KNOW THE SPECS AND GO TO ANOTHER NISSAN DEALER.

[kerrton]

I see where you're coming from on this one, try to beat them at their own game, but I don't think it will get you anywhere. There are no specs on "vibration", as there really isn't a way of measuring it.

If you read technical service bulletins for various vibration-type issues it's all very subjective, basically the tech takes the vehicle for a drive and "if you notice a vibration go to step 2 etc...". Or, in this case, "if you notice vibration between 5 and 15 mph under light acceleration, this is normal and within design spec, no action is necessary or possible". There is no quantitative spec for the vibration, just the observations of the tech, and Nissan has this within the tolerable/allowable limits of this vehicle, and it isn't a maintenance or drivability concern so that's the end of story. Even if they wanted to fix it there isn't anything they can do, that's how the engineers designed the car to operate. You can't insist that the dealer "repair" something that is a preference.

I personally would like them to fix the engine noisiness and CVT low-gearing and sluggishness in extreme cold weather, but it's not possible, that's the way the car is designed and I have to live with it. Simply put, there is no fix, that's how it was designed and from a technical stand point there is no problem, only my preference that the vehicle should have been designed differently. Your dealer service shop can't address design parameters unfortunately.

[rogue murano]

dealers and repair shops have a few tools such has chassis ears,electronic vibration analyzer, vibration analyzer, dial indicater and a nvh analyzer. the nvh analyzer measures the frequincy of vibrations. The engine, cvt trans, bearings and so on all have there own frequency range. All the tech has to do is plug it in and attach a few sensors that would take about one minute to do. He can go on a test drive or just put up on the hoist. thats how we found a binding axle shaft on my 2005 murano. this was the only problem i had in the 5 years i had the murano. if you complain about a vibration they shoud do more then say they are designed to vibrate. i would suggest keep takeing in to the dealer and complaning

[funissan]

I see where you're coming from on this one, try to beat them at their own game, but I don't think it will get you anywhere. There are no specs on "vibration", as there really isn't a way of measuring it.

If you read technical service bulletins for various vibration-type issues it's all very subjective, basically the tech takes the vehicle for a drive and "if you notice a vibration go to step 2 etc...". Or, in this case, "if you notice vibration between 5 and 15 mph under light acceleration, this is normal and within design spec, no action is necessary or possible". There is no quantitative spec for the vibration, just the observations of the tech, and Nissan has this within the tolerable/allowable limits of this vehicle, and it isn't a maintenance or drivability concern so that's the end of story. Even if they wanted to fix it there isn't anything they can do, that's how the engineers designed the car to operate. You can't insist that the dealer "repair" something that is a preference.

I personally would like them to fix the engine noisiness and CVT low-gearing and sluggishness in extreme cold weather, but it's not possible, that's the way the car is designed and I have to live with it. Simply put, there is no fix, that's how it was designed and from a technical stand point there is no problem, only my preference that the vehicle should have been designed differently. Your dealer service shop can't address design parameters unfortunately.

Hello kerrton, what document name or # can i print out from Nissan publications stating there diag procudure has mention here.

[kerrton]

Well printing out a Tech Service Bulletin or a section of the Rogue service manual for your service tech's probably wouldn't be something I'd recommend, it'd consider it a little insulting considering this amounts to telling them how to do their job and how to read the manual.

The way process works is you report a problem, they retrieve the appropriate guide for the given situation which may be a TSB workflow or a workflow out of the service manual or a standard work flow that they are familiar with ex. check brakes, disassemble, clean lube and reassemble. They know how to perform these tasks and probably wouldnt take kindly in this example to you saying "please diagnose my brake problem, and here is the procedure I'd like you to follow". Not a good way to get on their good side and encourage them to go the extra mile for you.

But for your reference here is one internal Nissan TSB that provides a workflow for diagnosing various vibration issues:

Subject: SB Nissan; Vehicle Vibration Customer Diagnostic Worksheet
Summary of NTB12020:
SERVICE INFORMATION This bulletin introduces the Vehicle Vibration Customer Diagnostic Worksheet. The Vehicle Vibration Customer Diagnostic Worksheet is used to help service advisors gather and document information about the customer's concern. Italso makes it easier to communicate these concerns to the technician. The Vehicle Vibration Customer Diagnostic Worksheet is currently available only in this bulletin. You can print copies of it - starting on page 2 - as needed. When completed, attach the Vehicle Vibration Customer Diagnostic Worksheet to the Work Order. See this bulletin for further detail.

To view the full document you need a paid subscription, i.e. you work as a Nissan tech.

[funissan]

thanks kerrton , i will print it out tomorrow at work. i am surprised like you said previously that if they feel a vibration in the rogue in this case, "if you notice vibration between 5 and 15 mph under light acceleration, this is normal and within design spec, no action is necessary or possible". There is no quantitative spec for the vibration, just the observations of the tech, and Nissan has this within the tolerable/allowable limits of this vehicle, and it isn't a maintenance or drivability concern so that's the end of story. im looking forward to reading it and seeing what the design spec and the tolerable/ allowable limits are for the rogue. thanks again kerrton