2011 EX35 AWD Journey: Serious Snow Performance Issues...

[MarkM13]

Greetings,

This is my first post here. I purchase my CPO EX35 in July of 2014; so this is my first winter with it. As soon as I got the car I ordered a set of General Altimax Arctics in 215-65 mounted on 17" wheels (I knew the optional 19" 245s would be a nightmare in the snow). Last weekend I was in VT for a ski weekend. Over two days they received 16" of snow. I knew there was a 2 day storm coming and had no hesitation given my snow set-up. I've used similar set-ups on an Audi A4 Avant and a Volvo V50 T5 AWD. With snow tires these cars were unflappable; even in 16" of unplowed snow.

My problems began when I got off the highway (which had about 2" of snow) and got on local rds which had about 4". The Traction Control [TC] kept kicking in and reduced power as it looked for a wheel with grip. The killer was when entering the ski area. The rd had been plowed but was still snow covered. While going up hill the car slowed and came to a halt as the Traction Control struggled to figure out what to do. I was in a line of cars and it was getting frustrating. I switched off the Traction Control, the snows hooked up, and away I went. The hill wasn't that steep. This scenario repeated itself many times over the weekend. Once, when pulling into traffic from a flat snowy parking lot; a rather hair raising I must say. FWIW, I never turned the Snow switch off all weekend. But, I was hitting the TC button so often I was wishing it was steering wheel mounted.

I'm beginning to think my EX35 has a malfunctioning TC or AWD system. I have also noticed the TC kicking in too soon in the Summer under moderate aggressive cornering. It didn't cut the power as it did in the snow but, I was surprised to see the light flash on. Esp. with rear wheel bias and 245-45-19 tires.

Any thoughts are welcome.
Last thing, I do have an apt with the dealer next week. But, this is driving me nuts. It may be a deal breaker if this is it's typical snow performance. I'd most likely ditch it for another CPO Audi or BMW wagon.

Thanks,
Mark

[jsk11ex]

You didn't say if you had the switch in snow mode or not. i wouldn't expect it to be as bad as your stating even with the snow mode off though.

BTW,I'm still riding on my 19 245's, not a lot of snow this year, but it plows right through what we've had in snow mode.

[MarkM13]

My bad: I never turned the "Snow" switch off all weekend.

[ArcticBlue]

You definitely have an issue with the TC or AWD system !
My 19" OEM Bridgestones went up my 30% grade long driveway in 8 inches of fresh snow without TC ever kicking in last winter - didn't even use Snow Mode. Those tires were awful on ice, and TC was enthusiastic about engaging with them.
The Continentals I have now are hugely impressive on ice/rain, and I have yet to see TC kick in all winter, although, like JSK, we haven't had any significant snow accumulation this season.
Let us know what the dealer has to say !

[AWGD8]

You could have answered your problem if you search the forum.

When you are driving less than 10MPH on a snow covered road , specially inclined or stuck in a snow you need to " turn off " traction control and " turn on " your snow mode. Traction control ON (VDC) will prevent your spinning wheel to spin (Brake will be applied automatically to the spinning wheel) you will lose the momentum to get out of the snow if stuck or if just pulling out of the snow covered parking lot or snow covered road inclined.

" Snow mode On "will give you 50/50 split AWD traction below 20MPH. Just remember, when your car is rolling 20MPH + you can turn ON the traction control or the Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC).

Remember, our car is not All Time AWD like Subaru. Our car is RWD bias, which is unique ! Very nice to have for summer time were it can go 100 RWD or 50/50 etc for winter.

Don't you love a full RWD car in summer and an AWD in winter? Then you got the right car!

Infinti AWD explains.

http://youtu.be/RwUBW8ay-L8


Any cars that are AWD but not all time AWD need to have the traction control turned off.
If pulling out of a thick snow from the parking lot or if you get stuck and need to rock the car back and forth. 4 runners , Rav4 , Honda etc forum discussed this issue before. I remember the old 4runners that did not have the option to turn the stability control off. Most of them got stuck in the snow....

For Summer time, you can turn the VDC off if you want spirited driving in the corner. It does not make sense to have stability control in attacking the corner... Stability control on will prevent the rear of the car to slide off a bit (which you need for attacking the corner) . Once the rear of the car break loose a bit the stability control will lessen the power or apply brakes to straighten the car to gain control.

[MarkM13]

AWGD8 Thanks for the thoughtful response. I hear you as far as the slower speeds. But, it doesn't account for the sliding rear on the local rds at 35mph. Also, coming home from work tonight it was snowing. My rd has a 10% hill but there was just a dusting of snow. The TC was on but at one point the tail slid to the left and then to the right as I tried to correct all with the TC light on. Also, as previously mentioned, it was wagging it's tail too often in the summer.

FWIW, I did do a search of the forums but, missed what you cited.
Honestly I'm hoping there is a TC or AWD issue. I have a 125,000 7 year warranty and stuff like this is what it's for. All cars have issues from time to time but, it's how the dealership/manufacture deals with it that makes the difference. I really like the car but, if this is it's winter performance it's going to have to go. When the snow really starts flying is when I load up the car.

Thanks again,
Mark

[AWGD8]

AWGD8 Thanks for the thoughtful response. I hear you as far as the slower speeds. But, it doesn't account for the sliding rear on the local rds at 35mph. Also, coming home from work tonight it was snowing. My rd has a 10% hill but there was just a dusting of snow. The TC was on but at one point the tail slid to the left and then to the right as I tried to correct all with the TC light on. Also, as previously mentioned, it was wagging it's tail too often in the summer.

FWIW, I did do a search of the forums but, missed what you cited.
Honestly I'm hoping there is a TC or AWD issue. I have a 125,000 7 year warranty and stuff like this is what it's for. All cars have issues from time to time but, it's how the dealership/manufacture deals with it that makes the difference. I really like the car but, if this is it's winter performance it's going to have to go. When the snow really starts flying is when I load up the car.

Thanks again,


Mark

I am not familiar with the brand of tires you have. Maybe check the tires? If it is a cheap tires , it is solid or bricked when temp. drops. It is like solid as a snow board...
Also a powdered snow even 2" is deadly...

[MarkM13]

I did a lot of research on them. When I found this info at Tire Rack I figured I couldn't go wrong:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js ... tab=Survey

AND:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyre ... odClar=AWD

[AWGD8]

Looks like a decent snow tires you have there. I think your issue might be your transitioning from best AWD car like your Audi to better AWD EX35.

As you mentioned from your initial post. Your Audi or Volvo could possibly drive on a 16" unplowed road. I could even think my EX35 can do 8" on my Michelin Xice 2 tires.

[MarkM13]

The dealer spent and hour with it. Tried to recreate the issue in a snowy parking lot.
They couldn't. No codes were present. Looking at a couple of Audis today.

Bummer I really liked this car but it can be a real safety issue in snow even up to 1"

Thanks for all your imput.

Mark

[AWGD8]

I am sorry to hear the EX35 did not work for you.

Have you test drove a Subaru? It will be both fun for winter and summer. Even just the WRX sedan at $26K + will both do the job. Audi is great too, but you get more bang for the back if you go Subaru AWD.

[MarkM13]

Had one, needed a complete engine teardown at 60k miles due to blown turbo. Repair was $7800 under warranty. By 87,000 it left my wife walking 3 times due to electrical gremlins.

[AWGD8]

Had one, needed a complete engine teardown at 60k miles due to blown turbo. Repair was $7800 under warranty. By 87,000 it left my wife walking 3 times due to electrical gremlins.

I heard Audi and BMW are now just a upscale name, but short on reliability if you keep the car in the long run. My cousin is a BMW tech and he does not recommend BMW unless you lease it within the Manuf. Warranty. I had a coworker who hates her Audi. I am really surprise with the EX35. I am 95% harsh on my EX35 eversince I bought it and the engine/ transmission are bullet proof.

Ford will soon come out with their Focus RS something which is an AWD but turbo 4 - 315 HP. Also the Golf AWD R ....

[ArcticBlue]

Had one, needed a complete engine teardown at 60k miles due to blown turbo. Repair was $7800 under warranty. By 87,000 it left my wife walking 3 times due to electrical gremlins.

Interesting - I bought a Subaru because of their vaunted longevity - engine blew out of warranty, repair costs exceeded car's value -never again Subaru! Still have an Audi A6 Quattro - truly a superior AWD system,but very expensive to maintain, and leaks oil - apparently a common problem with them.
The EX is an estimable vehicle, well put together, reliable, fun to drive - sorry you are having issues. Surely they can be resolved......

[MarkM13]

I did some research on BMW reliability. Several of my friends have 3 series. I've driven them and they are a blast. But, everything I read more than confirmed what your cousin knows. They sound like a nightmare. It quickly came off the list. I owned an Audi A4 2.8 Quattro Avant from 98-2005. Was a great care until 100,000 miles. Then at 110,000 everything started going. The engine and Quatro were rock solid but parts around them were failing monthly. Same story with my 05 Volvo V50 T5 AWD except it went 8.5 years and 125,000. It lasted one year longer than the Audi. However the failing head gasket caused me to trade it for the EX35.

Yesterday I did drove a 2013 Audi AllRoad. UnFreaking believable!! The 2.0t had a ton of torque and the fit and finish of the car was second to none. Just beautiful. I did some research and Audis reputation has indeed bettered since I had mine. Still the Japanese Big Three, Toyota, Honda, Nissan will always reign supreme in long term reliability. In the fit in finish department though Volvo and esp Audi are in a whole other league.

I've decided to keep the EX35 for now. The AllRoad was $38,500. It did have only 14k miles but still. I've had my eye on the high performance version of Volvo's new wagon; the V60 R-design. 2015 is their first year. Seeing Volvos depreciate like a rock, as soon as I can find one coming off a lease I'll evaluate it against the Audi AllRoad. Until then I'll ride the EX 35's traction control button.

Thanks for all of your input.

Mark

[AWGD8]

We just had a lake effect snow around 5-6 inches. When I drove this morning , the snow are around 1 to 2 " a bit of slush but the initial snow were powdered.
I was amazed that from dead stop, and about to pull left to merge on the busy street, I had the VSD and snow mode on. Car tends to slide to the right as I was turning left.

It is very noticeble this time that I kinda of driving an all season tires. I tried to recreate the car's reaction and I found out that it could have been the type of snow that fell causing a much slippery road. I never had this issue before, specially with snow mode on. I am thinking that it could be my Michelin Xice2 old tires it . I have this snow tires since winter of 2008. I only drive 30miles both ways to work. Tires are still half the tread. I might buy a new tires next winter.

[MarkM13]

I've experienced the same thing with the new snows cited above.
Never had this problem in my Audi or Volvo. I'll drive the EX35 for another 1.5 years; it is a very nice car (I like the legendary engine just wish it has some more torque; 325 ft/lbs would be nice.

After that it's back to Volvo's high performance models. Which, I know sounds like an oxymoron but, check out the specs of the R-Design models.

M

[AWGD8]

I think I might get a Nokian tires next time. I was just impressed with the Michelin Xice2 since it lasted me more than 5 years (6 winters) and the treads are still halfway through.

I heard that some snow tires only has winter compound on the first half of the tread, the rest are all season compound. Nokian rubber compound are all winter compound.

I might keep the EX35 for a long time since I do most of it's maintenance now.
I just need to lease a Subaru WRX or a Focus RS 2 years from now as a beater...


MarkM13, have you test drove an EX37? It felt a bit peppy on Manual mode than my 2008 3.5liters 5 speed AT. Still, I wanted to trade my EX35 to a slighty used G37x sedan since I already have an Uprev engine management tuner from my EX35 and could easily transfer it to G37x sedan. FYI, my EX35 AWD best 0-60 MPH runs was 6.12 secs 0-60 MPH from dead stop. This was a real world run with so many variables unlike the magazine time. The Uprev tuner has a timer which is very accurate once the car starts to move. My EX35 untuned runs around 6.5-6.7 secs 0-60.

The only thing I hate about the Ex35 is the tamed looooong 3rd gear. I wish they could have made the gear taller for better torque .

[TimGinCentralNJ]

I did some research on BMW reliability. Several of my friends have 3 series. I've driven them and they are a blast. But, everything I read more than confirmed what your cousin knows. They sound like a nightmare. It quickly came off the list. I owned an Audi A4 2.8 Quattro Avant from 98-2005. Was a great care until 100,000 miles. Then at 110,000 everything started going. The engine and Quatro were rock solid but parts around them were failing monthly. Same story with my 05 Volvo V50 T5 AWD except it went 8.5 years and 125,000. It lasted one year longer than the Audi. However the failing head gasket caused me to trade it for the EX35.

Yesterday I did drove a 2013 Audi AllRoad. UnFreaking believable!! The 2.0t had a ton of torque and the fit and finish of the car was second to none. Just beautiful. I did some research and Audis reputation has indeed bettered since I had mine. Still the Japanese Big Three, Toyota, Honda, Nissan will always reign supreme in long term reliability. In the fit in finish department though Volvo and esp Audi are in a whole other league.

I've decided to keep the EX35 for now. The AllRoad was $38,500. It did have only 14k miles but still. I've had my eye on the high performance version of Volvo's new wagon; the V60 R-design. 2015 is their first year. Seeing Volvos depreciate like a rock, as soon as I can find one coming off a lease I'll evaluate it against the Audi AllRoad. Until then I'll ride the EX 35's traction control button.

Thanks for all of your input.

Mark

Hey Mark-

I would tend to agree with your assessments of the top German/European manufacturers and their reliability in this day and age. Not that I'll be buying any of them soon, but I am puzzled by a few things myself:

a.) the makes/models we see the poorest reliability from here in the U.S. are often regarded as the MOST bulletproof models in Europe. How can this be? Different mindsets on what "reliability" means? European vs. American assembly? I have no idea.

b.) In my experience, German cars have ALWAYS required a lot of primarily mechanical "preventative maintenance" which--when performed on a timely basis--usually results in excellent reliability of the vehicle. Problem is, most of us here in the U.S. have been spoiled by having such a huge market of cars which require only oil changes, brakes and tire rotations, and the idea of preventative maintenance is totally foreign (see what I did there? heh heh). Consequently, that maintenance is not performed, and the car may suffer an early death.

c.) The complexity of many European luxury/sport cars seems to be their undoing in more and more cases, and the days of shadetree mechanics of DIYers being able to work on them is waning for sure.

This is why after my '01 7 Series bites the dust, I will likely not get another BMW. Instead, I'll stick with Infiniti and probably buy a used Q50 or older M37. No less complex, but certainly A LOT more reliable.

Tim

[AWGD8]

My EX35 is at 73K miles now and the extended warranty will be done on Sept. 2016. I went to my local dealer to service my car and saw a nice 2011 G37x sedan with 20k miles on it. One owner with very clean Carfax report. I test drove it and it was a blast. The interior and exterior are super clean too.

It only has 8 months left on the original warranty, but can be CPO for an extra $900 with 60/100k miles warranty. I am not sure if this is a CPO Wrap like the Elite Extended warranty or just a plain CPO warranty (less coverage)

Their internet price is $25,000 and CPO for $25,900.

I am so tempted to trade my EX35 in , but I am not in a position to pay another car payment right now. We just paid off the EX35 last Sept. and wanted not to have car payment for another year or year and a half.

Here is that darn car! I walked around and did not see a single dent and obvious scratches on the exterior of the car.

http://www.internationalinfiniti.com/ce ... 0ae50c.htm

[ppan76]

I just experienced bad traction recently in the North East. Fresh snow, maybe 2 inches at most. Stopped at a red light, making right turn and rear end skidded/slid towards the left.

I was going pretty slow so I was surprised it would happened. The first thing that popped into my head was "Whoa!!, the traction sucks in this car". Did I really get the AWD version and not the RWD only version?

*Tires are all new. (2K miles). All Season.
*VDC on, SNOW MODE OFF.

I have very little confidence driving this car in the snow now. My 2009 Murano was awesome in the snow.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

I just experienced bad traction recently in the North East. Fresh snow, maybe 2 inches at most. Stopped at a red light, making right turn and rear end skidded/slid towards the left.

I was going pretty slow so I was surprised it would happened. The first thing that popped into my head was "Whoa!!, the traction sucks in this car". Did I really get the AWD version and not the RWD only version?

*Tires are all new. (2K miles). All Season.
*VDC on, SNOW MODE OFF.

I have very little confidence driving this car in the snow now. My 2009 Murano was awesome in the snow.

Well, if Snow Mode was "off", then your car was only using the default front/rear torque split of 25% front/75% rear which occurs even on dry roads when starting out from a dead stop. Snow Mode causes your throttle to be dulled somewhat, but more importantly, it locks your front/rear torque at 50/50 until around 20 mph. So, this would have a distinct impact on your car's ability to track in the direction you'd like it to.

Also, with regard to many peoples' experiences of the rear end sliding to one side or the other, keep in mind that, just like a rear limited-slip differential which keeps power going to both rear wheels simultaneously, the rear brakes on our cars act as an LSD which means, if both wheels lose traction on snowy surfaces, the rear will slide one way or the other whereas a car w/ out this function will simply stop moving if traction at the front it inadequate.

Hope this helps,
Tim

[AWGD8]

I used to not slide when I turn on " snow mode " and " VSD " but lately It does happen now more often. I believe it is my slightly heavy gas pedal and probably a slightly worn snow tires.

I have the ex35 for 7 winters now with the same snow tires.
I thought something is broke on my AWD system....
But I think if you moderately press the gas pedal, there is a split second delay for the front wheels to catch up, thus making the car RWD for a moment.

I tried to slightly press the pedal a bit harder than normal from dead stop while turning and the way I see it is the EX35 like to slightly drift, while a fraction of secs drift, the front engages and gets nice AWD slide and gripped.

I learn it that when I am turning in a snowy road, from dead stop, I hit the inner most curve of the road (apex) to give me more room to slide a bit. So basically, I turn tight not loose (Loose turn or wide turn will give you more momentum turning and causing the car to speed up more and also not in a straight line and causes more pronounce slide. ) This is turning from dead stop like you are merging in a 90 degree turn. This is not applicable when turning or merging while already in motion (more momentum) if you hit the apex or turn tight, the EX35 tends to oversteer this way. Again this is with Snow mode on and VDC on.

[NJGuy]

I haven't spent that much seat time in the EX in the snow, but for those times I haven't really experienced any traction problems. I run 235/55R17 Michelin Primacy all seasons on the car. I just keep the snow mode engaged, drive moderately, and let the car do its thing.

While I may be comfortable driving in the snow, my wife on the other hand isn't quite as confident. We've been hit with lots of winter weather events the last two years, and especially this year she's had to drive through a number of them in her commute with lots of hills. She's impressed with the EX and it's AWD system and has become much more comfortable driving in snow. Unlike most of us here, she's not hypersensitive about how the EX reacts and handles in specific situations. All that matters to her is that the car predictably responds to her accelerator, brake, and steering inputs; and so far the EX has not let her down.

Sure, Nissan's/Infiniti's ATTESA system may not be quite as good as Audi's Quattro system or Subaru's Symmetrical All Wheel Drive, but I personally think it's plenty capable in inclement weather driving.

To the OP: I think that there is a problem with your AWD/traction control, and I hope you're able to get the issue resolved. The EX is a fine vehicle and surprisingly I've been very happy with my ownership experience of our EX over the past 3 1/2 years.

[AWGD8]

NJGuy, how do you like the 235/55/17 tire&wheel setup? That is not a typical plus1 sizing... The OEM size for 17" rims like mine is 225/60/17.

[NJGuy]

NJGuy, how do you like the 235/55/17 tire&wheel setup? That is not a typical plus1 sizing... The OEM size for 17" rims like mine is 225/60/17.

Without trying to get too off topic...

I didn't notice too much of a difference between the OEM size and the size I'm currently running. I'm guessing that moving to a different tire brand or type would have made a bigger difference in how everything felt. I only strayed from the OEM specs because I found a tire that I really liked in that size. Depending on what will be on the market when my EX needs its next set of tires, I'm leaning towards going back to the OEM size.