200LB-FT????

[pushnlacs]

Hey whats up?? as some of you might know my goal is 340hp or so at the wheels(400 at the crank) but this will strictly be a street car and i need good low end so i was wondering is 200lb-ft by 3000rpm possible on a 340whp sr with the right mods and tuning????

thanks

[RMiller]

I don't think so. It would be close. Look at dyno charts.

[Nismo_Freak]

No and unless you are pulling a trailor there is little use for shifting at 3k in a 240. The gearing easily allows for normal driving by a quick spurt up to 4k.

[pushnlacs]

i wasnt planing to shift at 3k, but not having at least 200ft-lb by 3k means the car will actually fell pretty weak until u are moving for a while huh??

iv driven a turbo car with 200 by 3k and i liked it, it didnt feel laggy or weak of the line at all because it got up and moved right as i got on it but to only have less than 200lb-ft by 3k im wondering if that would feel pretty weak.

just wondering if a turbo hits full boost between 3200-3400rpm would the tourqe peak be in that rpm range??? and as a guess how much tourqe would u say a 340whp sr will make??? thanks

[Nismo_Freak]

i wasnt planing to shift at 3k, but not having at least 200ft-lb by 3k means the car will actually fell pretty weak until u are moving for a while huh??

iv driven a turbo car with 200 by 3k and i liked it, it didnt feel laggy or weak of the line at all because it got up and moved right as i got on it but to only have less than 200lb-ft by 3k im wondering if that would feel pretty weak.

just wondering if a turbo hits full boost between 3200-3400rpm would the tourqe peak be in that rpm range??? and as a guess how much tourqe would u say a 340whp sr will make??? thanks

You can't compare two different cars like that... there are significant differences in just how gearing affects acceleration as well as power to weight ratio.

Torque peak will always be at or above 4000 RPM for the SR engine, especially for the high port engines.

If you are concerned with driveability I would go with an S15 turbo and live with what it outputs.

[pushnlacs]

that sucks if your only option for a good sr powered 240 street car ais "go with a s15 turbo and live with what it puts out" i mean why even go with that choice of car then???

the s15 turbo can put out 250 crank hp max and to me thats weak for a finished product, 300-350 is cool in a fwd honda just for a cool little car but 350 in a rwd car isnt that great.

id really like 400 at the crank and have been told full boost will be around 3200-3400rpm and the power curve will be instantaneous, so i figured that meant low end tourqe would be pretty good.

i know i probly sound stupid but iv never built cars so..... i really like the idea of a sr powered 240 with 400 at the crank but i dont want to spend the money and find out i dont like it.

oh and porting , doesnt that allow for better airflow and spool up??? so wouldnt that increase low end tourqe not worsten it???

[s13sr20chris]

whoa, s15 is only good for 250bhp? i believe you are selling that fine piece of garrett gt engineering short.

id really like 400 at the crank

i would venture to say what you would really like is for the car to pull "really daggone hard" and your number you assigned to this is 400 crank hp. that or you want to be able to say you have it. either way, thats not really here nor there. i am not bashing you btw.

porting prob would not help spool out as much as what you want. maybe a minor street port could help a little but any real porting will move the powerband up not down.

swaintech coatings can help spool(so i hear).

[pushnlacs]

my bad that was a typo, i was saying 350 crank for a s15 t28.

and the porting thing is crazy, thats the first time i heard it moves the powerband up, i dont get it. how can flowing more air therefore causeing quicker spoolup cause the powerband to move up in the rpms???? i know drift cars all have high hp and need to their power down low to brake the tires lose and most of them are ported.

it sucks cause i know about cars but dont at the same time you know? like iv heard a 15 silvia has great take off and pretty much no lag but yet only makes 200 or 250?(cant remember) lbs of tourqe at 4800rpm but yet a car that makes 270lbs at 3500 iv heard to be laggy whats that about???

im thinking about going to uti and taking its performance classes and that way ill know what i need to know im sure a 400hp sr powered 240 would be bad *** and id love it but not knowing how it would feel for sure makes me think to much.

[Bryants95240sx]

do you have any idea how 300-350 hp will feel in a 240 its going to be freaking fast ,a 240 isnt a big car.a sr is a pretty rev happy motor so revving to 3500 or above to reach the power really isnt a big deal.

[pushnlacs]

so a 400hp sr powered 240 that hits full boost at 3200-3400rpm will be all good????

[driftking777]

yea i have a 240 with an sr motor and its hard to stay below 3500...btw a 400hp 240 would put you in the like 11 sec 1/4 mile or so...that is really really damn fast...and even if you hit full boost at 3200-3800 your doing pretty damn good with even 350hp...like these guys said 400hp in a 240 would be insane.

[driftking777]

oh and another thing...who the hell trys to be go off the line really fast without atleast revving there motor alittle...i bring my 240 to near 3 grand before starting off the line...driving a turbo car is something you get use to...you learn to drive in the boost...there fore never seeming laggy

[pushnlacs]

yea 11's is what im going for. id like a high 11 sec street car and 400hp at the crank with a little weight reduction will be just that and all the shops i talked to said with a 400hp sr full boost will be around 3200-3400rpm and that doesnt seem bad but i dont know how that will feel.

also about the fast off the line, you rev it up at every stop you have to make???? and my main cosern about" off the line fast" is say im making a turn and cars are coming quick since i have a 400hp car id like to get up and go so i dont get hit you know??? not have to look at the turn as if im driving a regular old 4 banger cause my car lags. i dont mean i have to fly off the line full power like im racing at everystop but you know just some good get up n go.

[spider_slayer]

have you ever been inside an 11 second car?? i never have....i was in a 12.5 ss camaro and it puts you firmly into the back of the seat. if you want something that fast you could save your self >5,000 and jsut buy a bike.

[BaliLover]

Do you even have a 240 or an SR?

The KA is plenty torquey if what you want is off the line, the SR is apossible monster at 4000 RPM. I reach full boost at 4800, putting 314hp to the ground, and I have traction problems. My friend has an S15 turbo and no tuning running 12lbs and has worse traction that I do.

My experience with the 240s, at least without LSDs, is that the lower the max spool hits, the worse off you are with traction.

And I don't know what world you live in, but 300hp is FAST in any kind of light weight car, I don't care if its a Honda or a Nissan, or a Vette. It sounds like what you want is a car with big torque down low, and if thats the case, you shouldn't be looking at the SR as a motor option. You'd be better off turboing the KA, or doing and RB, or going out and finding a V8 domestic.

And yes, increased airflow moves the power band up and lowers the lowend tq for the most part. Thats why a 3" exhaust increases top end power, but drops your low end torque.

[Onizuka]

I'm hitting about 165 ft-lbs@3000rpms and 185 ft-lbs@3250rpms at the wheels on my S15 turbo at 7 psi. Im sure I'll have that figure at around 200ftlbs@3000rpms and 300hp@Xrpms once I figure out how to make my boost controller not suck.

[pushnlacs]

ok first off , yea bikes are coll but i dont want one inplace of a badass car, 2nd i now i can get good low end from the 2.5l+ 6's but ill do one of those up when the times comes and as for v8's i dont want a v8 at all , iv had them and theres nothing special about a fast v8(at least not enough for me to want to build one up)

ok and no i dont have a 240 or an sr because im not going to buy a car just to end up putting money into it and being like damn i shoulda got something else.

bail the stock s15 hits peak tourqe at 4800 and your does to right?? is it your daily driver/street car???? oh and i dont want big tourqe down low but i dont wanna feel like damn my cars slow when i first hit the gas thats all.

plus 300hp in a vette aint really ****. only reason a 300hp hond that runs 12's is cool is because its a honda running 12's other wise 12';s and really that big a deal for a final goal.

[BaliLover]

No offense man, but you're talking like a kid in highschool thats only dreaming. 300HP is fast in just about any street car, 12 second 1/4 miles are fast for any daily driven street vehicle, and to think otherwise is pretty stupid.

And no, I'm pretty sure the S15 turbo hits max boost lower than 4800, but I don't know if its hitting 19psi or not. There are turbos out there capable of 400+ RWHP that can make spool closer to 4000RPM, but I'm not sure exactly what ones.

Any car with a small displacement, low compression ratio motor is going to feel slow until boost kicks in, so its a matter of getting the car to rev faster or launch it at a higher RPM range. Like it or not, displacement is where its at (other than nitrous) if you want to get moving off the line fast.

[pushnlacs]

for one thing iv long been out of high school, 2nd my cadi has 300hp and to say 300 is alot of power sounds like something a little kid would say and 12's isnt slow but its isnt like whoa or anything hard to do, it isnt much to have a 12 sec. car. again its not slow at all but isnt that great for a final goal imo unless its a honda just because its a honda and shouldnt be fast at all.

and i never said the s15 t28 hits full boost at 4800 i said the s15's tourqe peak is at 4800rpm. and i know for a fact that 400 at the crank can be acheived with full boost by 3200-3400rpm im just wondering how that will feel because unlike wat u said iv driven other small displacment boosted cars and they didnt feel slow of the line at all.

oh and again is your your car a dailydriver bail????? and what turbo are you running???

my main point is im wondering how laggy a car that hits full boost at 3200-3400rpm will feel compared to the cars iv driven that hit it at 3000rpm thats all. im not trying to argue about anything or bs around.

[Nismo_Freak]

Sigh...

Ok.

1. Some rant...

2. 300RWHP is fast as hell in a 2800lb. car

3. It is always a trade-off... you need to quantify what you want more. Power or response... plain and simple.

4. 350+ RWHP will call for higher than pump gas octane to be safe

Ball bearings maybe decrease lag times by 100-200 RPM, they are built for transient on-off throttle response and longevity.

Head porting will increase lag. Mass flow is what spools the turbocharger, in order to incrase the mass flow with a limiting source ( displacement ) you need to increase either the rate of product ( RPM ), or the velocity of the product ( head flow velocity ). Increasing the port size will reduce the velocity of the flow at lower RPM resulting in less mass flow. It's all a game of maintaining deltaP as close as possible to the critical point.

[pushnlacs]

nismo freak , like iv said i dont claim to know everything about cars at all but you sound like an idiot considering those people that you say havnt driven a sr powered anything are some of the very sponsors of this site and im pretty sure 240sxmotoring and phase 2 have driven sr powered cars.

to be exact phase2 said on a s14 sr a hks gt2530 will produce around 350whp at 20psi using pumpgas and will hit full boost before 3500rpm reliably (they just dynoed it) and 240motoring said with proper tuning and mods a 400 crank hp sr will hit full boost around 3200rpm so im going to trust them over you since they make a living doing it and all.

i think im just ganna give up on this site since all people seem to want to do is act better than everyone all in the while saying something that makes them look like they know less than me eventhough they act like they know more. i dont know why everyone trys to argue i asked a question thats all, damn.

[240SXer]

Maybe you should look for dyno charts and such instead of just coming up with these crazy ides. Who cares about 200ft lb by 3000rpm? What is the big deal? Do you realize how fast a SR revs to 3000rpm? Power that low isnt really important, especially when it's only for 1 second in 1st gear only. I have a GT2540R .86 a/r turbo and I put down around 320whp at 15psi. I don't spool till about 4300rpm. Just deal with it. What you describe you shouldnt be looking at SRs. Look at other motors. How many people do need to tell you that it's not realistic what you want before you'll believe anyone? If you have your mind made up why did you create this thread?

Dude, you want a 2.0 liter TURBO engine, that has lots of power and yet has the band of a Chevy 350. Then you act like everone else is dumb when they tell you you're being stupid.

nismo freak , like iv said i dont claim to know everything about cars at all but you sound like an idiot considering those people that you say havnt driven a sr powered anything are some of the very sponsors of this site and im pretty sure 240sxmotoring and phase 2 have driven sr powered cars.

to be exact phase2 said on a s14 sr a hks gt2530 will produce around 350whp at 20psi using pumpgas and will hit full boost before 3500rpm reliably (they just dynoed it) and 240motoring said with proper tuning and mods a 400 crank hp sr will hit full boost around 3200rpm so im going to trust them over you since they make a living doing it and all.

i think im just ganna give up on this site since all people seem to want to do is act better than everyone all in the while saying something that makes them look like they know less than me eventhough they act like they know more. i dont know why everyone trys to argue i asked a question thats all, damn.

[Nismo_Freak]

nismo freak , like iv said i dont claim to know everything about cars at all but you sound like an idiot considering those people that you say havnt driven a sr powered anything are some of the very sponsors of this site and im pretty sure 240sxmotoring and phase 2 have driven sr powered cars.

to be exact phase2 said on a s14 sr a hks gt2530 will produce around 350whp at 20psi using pumpgas and will hit full boost before 3500rpm reliably (they just dynoed it) and 240motoring said with proper tuning and mods a 400 crank hp sr will hit full boost around 3200rpm so im going to trust them over you since they make a living doing it and all.

i think im just ganna give up on this site since all people seem to want to do is act better than everyone all in the while saying something that makes them look like they know less than me eventhough they act like they know more. i dont know why everyone trys to argue i asked a question thats all, damn.

I'm a sponsor of this site, and I've also been doing this for a living for the past 3 years.

Do you have a S14 SR? If not you have to factor out the benefit of flow that the VVT system gives the engine. It also has a low port head design whereas S13 engines have high port designs. There are differences in actual engine design between the two therefor you have to assume that the same exact results can't be applied verbatim to the earlier motors. The engines also have some degree of differentiation due to the tuning differences between what you are going to have and what P2M has on their car.

I would like to see 240 Motoring substantuate this claimed full spool by 3200 RPM with a car making 350rwhp. Mainly because if they know of a turbocharger capable of this then I certainly want in on it.

I'm not trying to discredit anyone. I'm looking for a similar turbocharger setup and power goal. So to me it would help to know what exactly they have done, as well as what exactly they are setting up the car for. I've retracted my statements.

[BaliLover]

I have been in contact on many occasions with Enthalpy (one of the big names in tuning SRs) and he has ALOT of experience with different turbos. I've been discussing new turbo options with him and I've basically realized that even a .64 AR turbo will only reach max spool around 4000rpm, and most .86ars reach it around 4800. There is no turbo that I know of that has instant boost with no lag, and I've yet to see anyone hit max spool and 350 WHP at 3200 on an SR.

You are getting mad at us for giving you facts and telling you that you are expecting the impossible and being unrealistic? You are arguing against people that own these cars and motors.

What you are looking for won't be found in an SR powered 240. That should answer your question. You will find what you are looking for in a 6 cylinder engine an 8 cyl. in a 240, but not in a 4.

And I have ridden in SR powered cars that felt quick off the line, but they were still using smaller turbo and not looking for maximum power at the crank.

[madbouncy]

First off, it really sounds like you've been beat by one to many hondas.

Do you honestly expect that you will be able to make a car that'll match a shops car? I'm not trying to say you're bad with cars, but you have to remember these are full shops and the guys do this for a living. Plus phase2 knows SR's a lot better than you, so unless you plan on trying to just copy everything thay do, I doubt you'd get the same results. There's nobody here that woudln't love to have a car with no lag and yet still flow great on the top end, but it's a matter of money. The more you bring down your spool time, the more expensive it'll be, and the less of an effect it'll have. YOu'll find easy ways to knock it down a few 100 rpms, but then you start to have to make compromises.

If you're main concern about having 200ft/lbs of torque at 3000rpms is so you can make a left turn quickly, why not just rev it a little higher? It's going to be the same as learning to drive a new car anyways. Some cars you just learn to rev a little higher to do the same thing. As long as it gets to the rpms quick enough, it's not going to matter. Also, for every 10tq you add at abour 3000rpms, you'll be getting only about 5hp. I've never been able to feel that kind of difference on the low end of a car. Then again, maybe you can, I still think that 5hp will be in your head whether you have it or not. I've never done anything in my life where I thought, man, if I had 5 more hp at 3000 rpms, I would've been able to do that.

[k6kicker]

"it isnt much to have a 12 sec. car"

have you ever been in a 12 sec car....that is hauling major *** for a street car man...and isnt exactly 1+1=2 for most cars

[X180sX]

look..... your not understanding the idea of a turbo... typically, if you want a turbo putting out mass amounts of power, your not gonna feel it all until later in the powerband. If your looking for off the line fast, then you should stop daydreaming and just get a supercharged car. and 300 hp is gonna feel extremely fast in a little 240. My friend has a grand prix gtx putting out only 300 and its supercharged.... and it feels like a lot more. it will throw you back in your seat easily. Now imagine that in a car 2/3 the size? Turbo are best for top end, unless you throw a hairdryer on it, where you won't be reaching very high hp numbers. Supercharger are good for low rpm high torque. make up your mind first, then pick something out. But right now, your trying to get the best of both worlds and it ain't gonna happen.

[RobDET]

I own an S15 T28 powered S13 coupe. I'm running stock 7psi and have just started messing with my AEM EMS... The car pulls so hard on GT mustangs it's a joke. It will spin in second gear for as long as you hold the gas down... And i'm probibly only making 220-240 RWHP. My goal is 300 at the wheels. As far as torque is concerned i've owned all of the 2.0 Turbo cars form japan except the MR2 and my friend lets me drive his all the time The SR is EASILY the most torqey of the bunch. Even more so than the Subie 2.0

[240SXer]

I know how to fix the problem. What he needs is a twincharged SR20, you need a supercharger to handle the low-end, then the turbo can handle the top. There, problem solved. 200ftlb @3k is no problem with a supercharger.

Good luck..

[redheadedredtop]

You were talking earlier about wanting basically the torque of any v8 at 3k rpms, but you really dont need it because the car revs so much faster than the v8 does.

I know how to fix the problem. What he needs is a twincharged SR20, you need a supercharger to handle the low-end, then the turbo can handle the top. There, problem solved. 200ftlb @3k is no problem with a supercharger.

Good luck..

LOL......

Listen pushnlacs, I have driven the a 240 with the sr20 swap, with just basic bolt ons, prob making around 225rwhp, and it would have had no problem pulling out into traffic. It was quick. If you want 350rwhp, you will have a lot of trouble pulling out into traffic. If you have anything but the best tires made, you would probably whip the car around and spin into the ditch. -Josh