2009 Rogue 165k miles - Rattle on rough roads

[Rockhoundrob]

I changed the oil on my daughter's car and took it for a test drive.
There is a metallic rattle on the front end of the passenger side (front end or sure, but whether it is actually the passenger side we seem to think so).

When I open the driver door and stand on frame next to the driver seat and bounce it (oscillation), there is no noise.
If I open the passenger door and stand on the frame and bounce it, then we can hear a metallic thump, on every bounce.

I checked lower control arm, engine mounts, calipers, heat shields, etc.. and cannot seem to find anything obvious.

Any ideas?

see below of videos

https://www.facebook.com/robert.turner. ... 7786372997

https://www.facebook.com/robert.turner. ... 3530975776

[VStar650CL]

I don't do FB, but noises that happen when only one side of the suspension is compressed are often in the sway bar or links. The sway bar is basically a torsion spring that spans the chassis, so it only does work when one side is compressed or unloaded and the other side is static or opposed, when both move equally it does nothing.

[Rockhoundrob]

NOTE: the top 2 radiator grommet was worn and I could rattle the radiator real good. Changed the bushings and that was not it.
Was thinking maybe the hood... but daughter will bring the car back tomorrow.

Ok how about Youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7YEt-nADeRM

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yzFe5idwnZA

[casperfun]

Oem 2009 here on everything but on the control arms a few years ago by force, because the dealer was going to fail my inspection even though it drove fine. Funny thing is I overheard a lady on her cell phone that she needed new control arms for inspection too. Not implying but it sure is coincidental.

I don’t have a rattle which I assume is more a clanking sound, Or thumping sounds for that matter.
Ummm I don’t do Facebook either.

But that would annoy me too. If you have a similar weighted person such as yourself, have them jump on the passenger side too and shove your head down there to try to see where the sound is emanating from.

Today I accidentally hit a pothole during this heavy rainstorm but no rattle. Upset at potholes because I drive like grandma through them when possible.

I remember Scotty Kilmer had a camera set up. But me back in the day had to stick my head out the window while backing out the driveway trying to figure out the rattle that was eventually a loose heat shield.

So yeah, I would probably have my kid jump while I look under the Rogue for the rattle because that would test my ocd for sure.

[casperfun]

Heard YouTube. The thumping from the bad road is normal I presume. The sound like a cloths hanger is swinging around in there is the rattling sound.
Don’t know either, like a loose something.

Ps- my rogue does not thump like that on rough roads.
The lower sounding thumps you hear there unless that’s the cheap interior making that. Still nada on those loud thumps unless the recording microphone is playing tricks on my ears.

[VStar650CL]

Much better. Actually, the sway bar could be responsible for both. It certainly seemed like it was doing it only on right-wheel bumps or mixed pavement where both sides were working hard. Bad links or bad bushings will both will rattle, and a bar with shifted locators will thump or clunk. The locators are metal rings that sit beside the bushings and prevent the bar from moving side-to-side, and there should only be a small amount of total clearance (say, 1/8" typical, 1/4" max) when you add up both sides. If there's more than that, it means the locators (which are press-fitted onto the bar) have been knocked out of position and are letting the bar swim around. That can cause all manner of weird noises.

09 Rogue Sway Bar.png (132.25 KiB) Viewed 2883 times

[Rockhoundrob]

So if the issue is the sway bar, then that is not dangerous?

Maybe tomorrow, if my daughter brings the car back, I can drive it up on the ramp and look around.
I have replaced sway bar links, but never the bushings.
I have also never heard of "locators". Learned something new here.

So when it is up on the ramp, I just need to try shaking the sway bar and see if anything rattles?
Or do I need to pry the sway bar in different placed with a large screwdriver?

[VStar650CL]

Not dangerous unless you get into an "emergency swerve" situation, then a bad sway bar can put the car into a fish or spin situation. The locator issue requires a visual inspection, you're looking for an abnormally large gap between the sides of the locator rings and the sides of the bushings. The bushings themselves should be pretty tight around the bar and not deteriorated, you can check the former with a prybar and the latter visually (no cracks or puckering allowed). Make sure the bushing clamps are tight as well. We've seen bushing clamp bolts occasionally break or work loose, and that usually causes one helluva racket.

[casperfun]

Fun fact- I actually got rid of a rear thunk sound by using an impact wrench on the sway bar bolts. I guess my weak skinny arms with a hand ratchet couldn’t torque them hard enough in those tight quarters.

[VStar650CL]

Fun fact- I actually got rid of a rear thunk sound by using an impact wrench on the sway bar bolts. I guess my weak skinny arms with a hand ratchet couldn’t torque them hard enough in those tight quarters.

Not surprised a bit, Casper. Keep this other fun fact in mind: That bar is basically a giant-a$$ spring trying to pivot up to a quarter of the vehicle's weight when you corner or hit a bump. It may not look like much, but the forces it endures and exerts can be enormous. So yah, it needs to be tight-tight.

[Rockhoundrob]

OKAY !!! I am 99% sure I found the rattle!
It looks like the front bushings on the subframe are gone. See video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7zDTfuXuA

I watched a Youtube video by TRQ and they removed the subframe to replace 4 bushings (2 in front and 2 in back).
Is this doable (TRQ uses a hydraulic lift - I don't have one)? It doesn't look too hard, but I am concerned that when I remove the subframe that the other frame on the car will move out of place.

What I would like to do is leave the rear wheels down and jack up the front and use 2 jack stands to hold the front up ( near the front door each side).
There should be plenty of room under the car to do work. I am just mainly concerned about removing the frame and something else pops out of place.

Also... I see the lower control arms are attached to the subframe. I know it rattles, but is it Ok if my daughter continues to drive the car for a few more weeks ( while I order parts)?
The roads here are smooth, so I don't see it rattling too much.
1)Are the Dorman bushings on RockAuto any good? or is there a better brand?
2) Would you also order 4 new bolts that go through the bushings? I have no idea if the bolts might be worn from rattling.
3) Is there any trick - like I could find a 1/2 inch thick rubber washer and pull the front 2 bolts out and insert the rubber washer and put the bolts back through?


Anything else I should be aware of?

[VStar650CL]

Those bushings are usually a complete motherf#<ker to remove, so be prepared with C4 or anfo if necessary (not really, but you get the point). We won't even do them at the shop, we tell customers they can buy a subframe or take it someplace else.

The subframe should drop fine the way you propose, but make sure the nose and transmission mounts are both good. If you have doubts, use a support bar.

[Rockhoundrob]

VStar - thank you for your input!
We know about the challenge of removing/installing bushings. My son and I replaced the bushings on the control arms of his 2006 4Runner.

Now what do you mean by making sure nose and transmission mounts being good? If we use a support bar, where on the engine/transmission would we place the contact point?
In the video, I see a "transmission torque strut" that gets removed. I plan to replace this while the subframe is out.

[VStar650CL]

You straddle the engine hood ledge with the bar and drop a pair of chains to the engine. The mounts at the right (nose) and left (transmission) have to be good to keep the whole assembly from getting ka-ka with the frame dropped and the torque strut removed. If they're tight then you don't need to worry about a bar.

[Rockhoundrob]

I believe they are OK. When we were trying to find the rattle, we had the engine running and shifted the gears from D to R and the engine barely moved.
I will check again for cracks or missing rubber.

Now assume, the mounts are a bit bad, does that mean when we loosen the bolts on the subframe, the engine/transmission will put pressure on the subframe and will be pushing it down?
If so, then the subframe will be moving down as the bolts are coming down. Then we can stop and tighten the bolts back up and then we get the bar and support the engine.

Thanks again for your advice!

[VStar650CL]

Yah, and the engine may move down far enough or angle enough to complicate getting the frame back up. But if you didn't see much movement when rocking the engine, then I'm sure they're fine. They get very clunky when they're bad enough to cause issues.

[Rockhoundrob]

I am doing my homework in preparation to start on this Tuesday-Wednesday.
I watched a TRQ video and some of the torques that the video says don't seem right.
I think all the numbers are 25% too high.

Video says:
1) The 4 MAIN bolts that go through the bushings of the subframe is 95 ft lbs.
2) The 4 rear bolts for the other smaller frame is 72 ft lbs
3) Transmission mount is 81
4) Bolts to hold rack and pinion is 147... (NO WAY!!) He even says to be careful that the rack and pinion is aluminum.

I think it should be more like:
1) 60
2) 60
3) 50
4) 90

Anyone have a link to the torque specs?

[VStar650CL]

Nissan torque specs are almost always embedded in the exploded diagrams. You can find the torque specs for the mounts on EM-61 here...
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 9%2FEM.pdf
...the rack on ST-14 here...
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 8%2FST.pdf
...and the FSU file for the '09 seems to be corrupt, but the '08 should be identical and you can find the subframe here on FSU-18:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2FFSU.pdf

The specs are in Nm (Kg/m, Lbs/Ft), so the second numbers in parens are the ones you'll be using.

[Rockhoundrob]

GREAT!! Thank you.
I booked marked the link!

[VStar650CL]

[Rockhoundrob]

Thank you again VStar, all went well.

There is one contribution I'd like to make about an issue I ran into.
You said removing the old bushing is hell. So I bought an air chisel hammer. It did OK on one bushing, but it was taking too long (like 10 minutes and only 1/2 done).

So I got a long chisel and used a grinder to taper the end very sharp.
Put the chisel on the back side of the bushing ( between the metal part of the bushing and the metal part of the sub-frame).
Then use a mallet to hammer the chisel between the 2 metals. This buckles the bushing and it pops out.
It took less than a minute for each bushing.

This is what the bushing looks like when it came out.