2008 Rogue posessed by electrical demons

[alfaguy]

Hello all,

We have a 2008 Rogue with 255,000 KM (160K miles) on it and have had it since new, Transmission replaced under warranty at 150KM just as an aside for those with trans questions.

In the last few weeks it started having the abs come on when braking, I think the right front wheel, even when the road is dry and just barely using the brakes. Like even at 10 km/hr going through a parking lot, just touch the brakes and the abs module would chatter, and slip light would light up. The brakes are all newish and the pads are free and sliding fine. My first thought was that I was losing a wheel sensor and the abs module thought the wheel was not moving and tripping the traction control into action. Then the problem disappeared for three weeks until yesterday......

When we went to start the car it drove fine for a few minutes and then all hell broke loose. The ABS and Parking brake light came on and the speedometer speed needle started fluctuating between a real speed indication and gibberish bouncing reading. On the tach side of the dash the the VDC and slip lights are also on. Then the ABS module chatter returned when we went to stop but not always with every brake application.

But wait, there's more!

We stopped at the store ( the liquor store by now) to try and get a sense of what was happening. When I unlocked the passenger door from the inside to let people into the back of the car the alarm went off and we couldn't get it to shut off, we had to drive out of the parking lot with it alarming and flashing headlights. The alarm did stop eventually, so we parked again and turned the car off. We started it again and the alarm went off again but this time pushing the unlock button on the fob stopped it. The first time pushing the red button on the fob or starting the car had no effect on stopping the alarm.

And finally we get back home and into the driveway, now when parked the car ABS unit is chattering all the time when the car isn't even moving, and all four lights as mentioned are on, whether the key is in ON or START positions

I am going to go out and do some troubleshooting this morning and will report back but in the meantime I could use any ideas or incantations that may assist,

Thanks, Andy

[alfaguy]

Another note on this, I was thinking it might be a problem with the brake light switch on the brake pedal originally but yesterday when we stopped I checked the rear brake lights and they were always working with no issues. I also tried manipulating the switch manually and giving it a couple of good whacks to see if it was intermittent and it did not change any of the symptoms that were occurring.

[alfaguy]

Using the Torque app on my phone I can see that the speedometer information via the OBD port is also changing erratically, this probably means that the dash cluster is only reporting what it sees from the other modules and that the dash cluster is probably OK. I am just checking the ground and voltage connections to rule out basic corrosion issues that could be making this a bad ground or voltage drop.

[Rogue Jarhead]

Often problems like this are related to under voltage. Your torque app should have a place to display battery voltage. Try that and see what it reads. It should be right around 14v with your car running. If you have a multimeter check the battery with the car off it should be right around 12.6.

[bill875]

I can almost guarantee it is a defective wheel speed sensor based on my experience: topic610755.html

[alfaguy]

I checked that with the car running and stopped, 14.25 running 12.5 stopped and settled down. Cleaned up connections but all looked good, no voltage drops across fuses, checked grounds between engine block, frame and battery.

I then looked at some other postings and found this one which describes the problem that they had that was very similar, it headed me down the road of the wheel sensors being an issue:

viewtopic.php?p=6678772#p6678772

I disconnected battery and then pulled the plug on the ABS control unit and using the service manual diagram on page BRC-52 in the Brake Control Systems section I individually checked each wheel sensor, three of them were in the neighbourhood of 400-600 Kohms when measured with a ohmmeter, the right front was around half that and not steady like the others, the reading was wandering all over the place. The pinout for the connector is on page BRC-53 but be careful as the connector pinout is shown looking at the control unit, if you are testing the wire you have to reverse the diagram. The staggered layout of the pins will tell you which way to read the numbering.

So I may have a bad wheel sensor. I will try that and see if it corrects the problem.

The alarm going off issue is a whole different issue that threw in a red herring. Our car after about the 200K km mark started doing that about once every six months, sometimes the car locks itself as well. My wife and I joke about it but we always make sure never to leave it with the keys in it!!

[macgiver]

mac here, I believe Rogue Jarhead is on to something , my background Union electrician/mechanic . Sounds like voltage fluctuations and no volts indicator(meter) other than"Idiot light" ??
In short , and this will make sense to you in the end of these typical engineered features - an OVERVOLT will most definately / usually cause SRS (Airbag System) flashing and unbeknownst SRS SHUTDOWN is what's being done by that module and probably seen in the ECM ; lights may appear brighter , a window motor may be noticed to operate more vigorously etc. Safety says a HI VOLT may trigger an Airbag! Is why it drops out w/warning.
An UNDERVOLT will most definately / usually cause the ABS system and thus flash the "ABS warning lamp" to warn first and subsequently SHUTDOWN , likely seen in the ECM too. For ABS needs relatively high AMPERAGE whence itkicks in , it's the relays enabling little HI-PRESSURE pumps sending hydraulic pressure pulses dozen+ times a second ! Safety says - Let driver know that you may skid ,one reason light IS ON = system is down , in this case due to insufficient voltage to supply proper current (ABS fuses are several in the order of 40A or more )
So , usually a high voltage or only a low voltage you may wonder - what would possibly do this and BOTH ///
What ought to be rule out in my opinion is Alternator , now it can be over/undervolt many hundreds of times a second AND in an intermittent manner which can easily falsify simple VOM (voltmeter) readings , YET because those mentioned electronics SRS / ABS operate as in microchips under high clockrates(Mhz) in order to act in split-second crash or panic skids THEY WILL BEHAVE most eratically , yet also being a good indicators of where to start looking . So I would bet that a PERFECT alternator coupled with a PERFECT battery ( however you want to achieve this ) will correct your situation . Still cheaper than the $100 initial diagnostic shop/dealer and the subsequent SEVERAL hundreds of dollars repair they may conjer up. You need if it appears to be what I suspect,an HONEST mechanic to do a SPECIFIC repair order of Alternator AND Battery replacement , unless of course you like me tackle virtually everything yourself .
p.s. All the other WEIRD electrical glitches present themselves as you see when a long enough duration of over/undervolt is seen by all the other "SLOWER" devices like relays ,light bulbs, motors etc.
Good luck,Glen 2/18/2018

[Rogue Jarhead]

14.25 is good, 12.5is about right, 12.6-12.8 would look a little better but 12.5 shouldn’t give you any problems. I think you may have more than one thing going on here. A wheel speed sensor definitely, I’d replace the one you found different. The wheel sensor will cause a lot of the lights you described, brake, slip, vdc etc to come on, and of course the abs light and chatter. I was not aware it would cause a speedometer to malfunction, but I suppose it might do that. The alarm problem though is almost certainly unrelated to the wheel sensor.

Monitor your charging system with your torque app while driving and see if goes down in the low 13’s or even lower. That would be an indication of imminent alternator failure, or a bad connection, voltage fluctuations can cause weird things to happen electrically.

I have an ultragauge on my daily driver, not my Rogue, and I keep an eye on voltage, water temperature, turbo boost, speed, rpms and any trouble codes that may pop up.

Mac is right electric fluctuations can cause all kinds of electric havoc in a modern car that has so many toys and gadgets installed

Let us know what you find and what the solution is..

[alfaguy]

Just a follow up and a thank you to all who helped with this. I appreciate your taking the time to wade in!

Yesterday I changed the wheel sensor. I had to remove the brakes to get enough room to work as the sensor was cracked. As soon as I undid the bolt it was obvious we had an issue as the sensor plastic was cracked and the wire was all that was holding it. I imagine driving it like that did it in. Using the new sensor as a depth gauge I marked off my drill with tape so I didn't drill too deep, and left my self a 1/8 inch buffer for safety. I drilled a pilot hole and then when I drilled slowly with the larger bit closer to the sensor size, the bit grabbed and twisted out the remains of the old sensor. A little filing of rust out of the hole and using shop vac and air hose was able to get all the remaining pieces out of the hole. Put some anti seize on the bolt and sensor body and popped it back in. All in all about an hour from wheel off to wheel on.

When I restarted the car the VDC and slip light came on but once it did the ABS self test the fault cleared and I went to town and back last night (50 KM round trip) and all was fine.

Thanks , Andy

[amc49]

All from a wheel sensor................you'd think as soon as the error in sensor readings is seen the system would simply disable to not impact other things like the Ford ones do. Those simply switch off.

Some cars pull the wheel sensor readings to use them for speedo instead of a VSS speed sensor. Or use them as a comparo to VSS for verification.

FYI for future use, I used to test batteries and alts by the hundreds on cars of all brands and I came up with 12.3 volt as a minimum number to never let a battery go under to prevent problems as a good average that seems to work on all.

[Rogue Jarhead]

The wheel sensor will trigger all those brake and anti slip lights, but I would never guess that it was responsible for the alarm also. Hopefully this solves your problem completely. Thanks for posting back the solution, little things like this add to the knowledge base of what makes these cars tick.

Putting the never seize on the sensor is a good idea, up here in the salt belt removing wheel sensors always involves a hammer, drill, file and occasionally a few other tools.

[alfaguy]

Just wanted to clarify that I think the alarm is unrelated, it has been doing that for the last couple of years intermittently. VW Jettas are bad for this type of fault and it is usually a door switch for the alarm.

The problem with the Rogue is that when it only does it once or twice a year its hard to track down!

[DTASFAB]

The alarm thing might be a quirky user error, especially if only happening once a year. On my 2013, I once parked at the grocery store and left the driver window down with all other windows shut and the doors locked. When I got back to the vehicle, instead of using the fob or the key or the smart push button on the outside door handle to unlock the door, I reached in and pushed the power door lock button to unlock from inside the vehicle. The thing went crazy and wouldn't shut up until I'd started the engine and drove off the parking lot for about 30 seconds. Then when I got home and shut the engine off, it started screaming again. Then, finally, I held the panic button on the smart fob long enough to make it simmer down. These alarms are completely useless except to annoy the neighbors and they're extremely temperamental. I wish it was a removable option. The chip in the key to kill the ignition is ok, but the alarm is flat out stupid, pointless, and useless. Nobody calls the police when a car alarm is going off, precisely because 99% of the time, the vehicle is not being stolen. Stupid annoying feature of living in the modern world.