2008 M45x premature wear

[Su33]

Hello all, I am not knowledgable enough to be dangerous and really need some help/input, please!

I bought this car brand new and have been having issues with tires and rotors. I've done all the servicing pretty much on schedule at the Infiniti dealership. They see my car for one thing or another roughly every 3.4K miles. I do not drive this car hard, and my daily commute is less than 5 miles each way. Since Feb 08 I have put 45K on it. Here is a brief history:
- 18K: I had to replace all 4 OEM GY Eagle-RSA's because of uneven wear. Why they did not notice earlier and rotate/balance I just don't know. And (since I am now more educated I know this) they put the same crap tires on their again even thought I expressed great concern over how long they lasted.
- 28.5K: Front rotors re-surfaced.
- 31K: Rear rotors and brake pads replaced.
- 42K: Front tires replaced (yes, frikkin RSA's again). Now, another shop I occasionally go to said this is crazy and that you NEVER replace just 2 tires on AWD. I called several other Infiniti dealerships, and some said you never do it and some said you can as long as the tread variance is not too bad.
- 45K: Front rotors re-surfaced and break pads replaced.


I just can't comprehend why things are wearing out so fast with the type of driving I do and the short commute. I decided to meet directly with the service manager and all he could say is that with this type of performance vehicle, everything looks about right to him. I find this very hard to believe, can you good folks please chime in? I'll answer any questions you might have. I'm sorry I'm not smarter about this so please bare with me.

[MOWellsinVA]

Well, it is a fairly heavy, high performance car, so replacing the brake pads at he intervals you mentioned would not be unheard of. I'm surprised no one suggested to you to have the tires rotated every 5,000 miles. Those OEM tires are crap, though. You should have asked for Continentals or Michelins as replacements. It does sound like you have had way too much wear considering your low miles at this point. Do you have to do a lot of braking, as in stop and go traffic?

Go to another dealer and get a second opinion.

[Su33]

Thanks MO.

Yes, will definitely get the tires rotated more often going forward. I'll look back at my records and see how often it happened but it was certainly not anywhere close to every 5K. Does rotation always need to happen with balancing as well? And alignment should only be as needed which they can assess first (free?) and then do if needed, correct?

Yes, I believe the brakes look fair. My concern is more the rotors and tires. As for traffic, no, I live in suburbia in North Carolina and just have a few lights to stop at back and forth to work, easy on the brakes.

At this point, what should I ask for in a second opinion? My fear is there is some type of defect in the car that is causing these issues.

[atlM35]

I've owned several Nissan and Infiniti. The factory rotors are crap.
Upgrade to some drilled replacements up front and you won't have to resurface again.
Go with better tires, the Goodyear set is only good for the first half of tread.

[merlinq2]

Now I have an 07 35x. I do my own brake work and I replace my pads, at the start of the summer. So every year I get a new set of pads. I do have a set of slotted and drilled rotors on the front of the car; I bought brembo rotors for the rear. I was told to go with the Brembos because they are made from a heavier steel and can be truned (milled) two or three times before replacement.

This summer I will replace the pads all the way around and have the rear rotors turned and the front rotors replaced (three year service from the fronts - they just need to be replaced).

I have found that proper bedding in of the pads and the rotors is key, this improves service life and helps keep the surfaces clean.

I bed the brakes in at least three time per year. This I believe improves the service life of the rotors.

These cars are very heavy and they need a heavy tire that can carry a higher load index. I will get michelins (right now good year Egale F1 GS3), with the highest possible load index.

[svard75]

I've owned several Nissan and Infiniti. The factor rotors are crap.
Upgrade to some drilled replacements up front and you won't have to resurface again.
Go with better tires, the Goodyear set is only good for the first half of tread.

I agree the Goodyear RSA's are a bad tire.
For heavens sake don't put drilled or slotted rotors on the car. In my experience most drilled rotors are not drilled out properly and they fracture near the holes after a few years, number two you can't use ceramic pads with drilled or slotted rotors. Trust me on this I spent big $$$ and got DBA rotors for all fours with Hawk pads and they lasted me a whooping year before the hard ceramic pads eat their way into the slotted rotors. Frankly a good organic compound or semi-metalic pad is best. Rotors are more expensive than pads so think of it that way and should you need to resurface your rotors no one will touch drilled or slotted with a 10 foot pole.

http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/r ... d-warping/

[svard75]

Here's a very interesting read from the LS1 forums
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-tech ... -test.html

[GQM45s]

Thanks MO.

Yes, will definitely get the tires rotated more often going forward. I'll look back at my records and see how often it happened but it was certainly not anywhere close to every 5K. Does rotation always need to happen with balancing as well? And alignment should only be as needed which they can assess first (free?) and then do if needed, correct?

Yes, I believe the brakes look fair. My concern is more the rotors and tires. As for traffic, no, I live in suburbia in North Carolina and just have a few lights to stop at back and forth to work, easy on the brakes.

At this point, what should I ask for in a second opinion? My fear is there is some type of defect in the car that is causing these issues.

1. Tires are crap for sure - go for some Continentals DWS those are awesome - most members here would agree.
2. Stock Rotors are crap - yes we have an expensive car but yet the rotors are crap - most of us have to resurface them or just replace them completely with non OEM rotors - brake pads i been using the Akebono pads - love them.
3. Rotation (puff puff pass lol) but rotation of tires are a key essential to wear on tires. every 5k ( i personally do 6k cause i do it with my oil change... running royal purple syn)
4. Try going to Discount Tires if there is one near you - they are really nice people there and we answer alot of tire questions for you as well, they also get comments/reviews from previous customers that purchase a set of tires from them.

5. Good luck with your issues, we are always here if you have additional questions

[merlinq2]

I've owned several Nissan and Infiniti. The factor rotors are crap.
Upgrade to some drilled replacements up front and you won't have to resurface again.
Go with better tires, the Goodyear set is only good for the first half of tread.

I agree the Goodyear RSA's are a bad tire.
For heavens sake don't put drilled or slotted rotors on the car. In my experience most drilled rotors are not drilled out properly and they fracture near the holes after a few years, number two you can't use ceramic pads with drilled or slotted rotors. Trust me on this I spent big $$$ and got DBA rotors for all fours with Hawk pads and they lasted me a whooping year before the hard ceramic pads eat their way into the slotted rotors. Frankly a good organic compound or semi-metalic pad is best. Rotors are more expensive than pads so think of it that way and should you need to resurface your rotors no one will touch drilled or slotted with a 10 foot pole.


39 K Km's on drilled and slotted rotors, no fatigue or cracks - they are durable. You can use ceramic with drilled and slotted- I have and have never had any issues.

Ceramic will not eat your rotors, the rotors will eat the pad.

Re bedding pads is key to longevity. Because you can not mill drilled and slotted, you need to use the pads to clean the rotor. Keeping an eye on ceramic pads is key.


http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/r ... d-warping/

[svard75]

merling2 - I don't doubt you in the least but I am sharing my personal experience with the DBA4000 rotors and hawk pads.
My driving habits are daily driver and my stopping habits are fairly bad (Seriously bad stop and go traffic for about 3 hours per day) My pads and rotors were chewed away and I can tell by using my finger to run along the rotors surface plus the fact that the untouched outer edge of the rotors were higher than the pad contact surface. The pads still had plenty of life left in them but unfortunately they had to go. I also could not get rid of the squealing this setup gave me. I tried every possible squeal-stop trick in the book including buying a new shim kit from Nissan, using the rubberized brake stop squeal blue stuff and servicing my brakes at a dealership. Each time I take it to them they simply say "We can service your brakes but cannot guarantee the squeal will go away since you're using non-OEM equipment."
Since then I had my OEM rotors resurfaced and re-installed with organic pads and have not had any further issues with vibration or noise going on 2 years now.

[merlinq2]

It sounds like you need new calipers of at least a rebuild, I had one caliper go on the rear of the car due to a poorly lubricated pin. That cost me one rear rotor. it went from a minor squeal to a serious grind in less than two weeks. I have replaced both rear calipers and have not had any issues yet. Vibration is due to poor depositing of the pad material on the rotor- this is judder. I had that issue with all of my Nissans etc- high speed stops, daily traffic etc. Since I have been disciplined with bedding the brakes three time per year, my brakes last longer, the pads wear better and the rotors rarely go out of round.

I agree that nothing beats a thick and heavy solid surface rotor, but the drilled and slotted I have been using have been excellent- 385 dollars for parts and half a day in the garage and 39K km's later, the car stops straight and hard with little or no brake fade.

Good to hear that you have a good experience with the current application.

Have you sorted out the ride on the new coil overs, get rid of the bouncy feeling?

[svard75]

It sounds like you need new calipers of at least a rebuild, I had one caliper go on the rear of the car due to a poorly lubricated pin. That cost me one rear rotor. it went from a minor squeal to a serious grind in less than two weeks. I have replaced both rear calipers and have not had any issues yet. Vibration is due to poor depositing of the pad material on the rotor- this is judder. I had that issue with all of my Nissans etc- high speed stops, daily traffic etc. Since I have been disciplined with bedding the brakes three time per year, my brakes last longer, the pads wear better and the rotors rarely go out of round.

I agree that nothing beats a thick and heavy solid surface rotor, but the drilled and slotted I have been using have been excellent- 385 dollars for parts and half a day in the garage and 39K km's later, the car stops straight and hard with little or no brake fade.

Good to hear that you have a good experience with the current application.

Have you sorted out the ride on the new coil overs, get rid of the bouncy feeling?

bouncy is resolved. 06M4.5 told me his settings for the rears and I tried them out. Good to go. The fronts are 30 from S and rears are 20 from S. My wife and I both agree that this drop may be a bit too agressive for the GTA's poor streets. I drive along Bathurst, Eglington, Bayview and Cummer/Drewry and all of these roads are seriously s*** LOL. When I get sick of rattling my brain around I'll try jacking it up a bit and trying a slightly softer setting. Although I am beginning to hear my interior shake and things making funny noises I never heard before. What can I say, either D2s are crappy coilovers or coilovers in general are not for a daily driver. Time will tell...

BTW getting an uprev tune next week. It's in Aurora. Would you be interested? Maybe he would be willing to give a discount.

[merlinq2]

Those roads are really bad for sure. I will have to think about that, not sure I want to spend the money on the car, I bought 1 series BMW and I am going to tune that one, the 35x is the daily driver so it will stay stock for now. PM the price and if make sense I might do it.

Let me know

[atlM35]

I've owned several Nissan and Infiniti. The factor rotors are crap.
Upgrade to some drilled replacements up front and you won't have to resurface again.
Go with better tires, the Goodyear set is only good for the first half of tread.

I agree the Goodyear RSA's are a bad tire.
For heavens sake don't put drilled or slotted rotors on the car. In my experience most drilled rotors are not drilled out properly and they fracture near the holes after a few years, number two you can't use ceramic pads with drilled or slotted rotors. Trust me on this I spent big $$$ and got DBA rotors for all fours with Hawk pads and they lasted me a whooping year before the hard ceramic pads eat their way into the slotted rotors. Frankly a good organic compound or semi-metalic pad is best. Rotors are more expensive than pads so think of it that way and should you need to resurface your rotors no one will touch drilled or slotted with a 10 foot pole.

http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/r ... d-warping/

That's odd. I've had drilled/slotted rotors with ceramic pads on at least 6 of my previous cars without issue... but then again, I haven't kept a car longer than 3 years.

[quinner49er]

Hi Su33,

You sent me a private message concerning my experiences with tires and brakes on my 2008 M45X, however I was unable to reply, since you do not have private messaging (PM) enabled.

I concur with many of the replies above. Aside from regular rotation, alignment and balancing, one other possible concern is what tire pressure you maintain on your tires. I also would never replace only one or two tires on an AWD car, unless the wear differential is very minor. I replaced all four of the original RSAs on my car early, since I got a flat on one tire that was not repairable. I was happy for the excuse to get rid of the RSAs due to the heavy tramlining I experienced. I replaced them with Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires, which in my opinion are a huge improvement.

The OEM rotors and pads on this car are a common complaint on this forum. I have experienced this also. There are many other posts addressing this issue. While the car is large, heavy and powerful, which will contribute to the problem, some have opted for after-market rotors and pads and have found them helpful, as many above have indicated.

If you go into your profile, you can enable PM. If you then send me another message, I will be happy to provide you with more specific details on my experiences with both brakes and tires.

[Su33]

Thanks all. Sorry for the delay in response. I put this to bed for a while out of frustration and some other things that needed attention. The service manager at the dealer where I bought the car ~50 miles away offered to take a look at the car top to down for me. I am going to do that next Friday.

We are getting a lot of pulsing on braking yet again which the resurfacing of the rotors was supposed to fix. The bottomline, I don't think my current dealership has done a lot of good for me and I totally relied on them somewhat blindly, big mistake. I'lll post what the resolution is, which I am hoping is the dealership stepping up to get me squared away mostly on their dime since there does seem to be a bit of negligence/poor advice on their side as well.

quinner, thanks for the PM heads up, I have turned PM on. I probably will ping some time, thanks a lot.

[Partysan7]

Thanks all. Sorry for the delay in response. I put this to bed for a while out of frustration and some other things that needed attention. The service manager at the dealer where I bought the car ~50 miles away offered to take a look at the car top to down for me. I am going to do that next Friday.

We are getting a lot of pulsing on braking yet again which the resurfacing of the rotors was supposed to fix. The bottomline, I don't think my current dealership has done a lot of good for me and I totally relied on them somewhat blindly, big mistake. I'lll post what the resolution is, which I am hoping is the dealership stepping up to get me squared away mostly on their dime since there does seem to be a bit of negligence/poor advice on their side as well.

quinner, thanks for the PM heads up, I have turned jPM on. I probably will ping some time, thanks a lot.

Hey there, I dont know how many times they have resurfaced your rotors but keep in mind that each time they do its takes a bit of rotors thickness which means less metal to absorb heat and that causes your problems. I personally am going to upgrade to Akebono bbk with the 14" rotors( once i gather up some $) the brakes on these cars are way too small to handle the weight. But another alternative is to upgrade to some high quality aftermarket rotors . Also apparently its not good to have full ceramic pads as they bake into the rotor at a standstill after some heavy braking. Good luck

[Su33]

Hey there, I dont know how many times they have resurfaced your rotors but keep in mind that each time they do its takes a bit of rotors thickness which means less metal to absorb heat and that causes your problems. I personally am going to upgrade to Akebono bbk with the 14" rotors( once i gather up some $) the brakes on these cars are way too small to handle the weight. But another alternative is to upgrade to some high quality aftermarket rotors . Also apparently its not good to have full ceramic pads as they bake into the rotor at a standstill after some heavy braking. Good luck

Thanks. Yeah, fronts have been resurfaced twice now....