2006 M35X on stagger set-up.

Forum for Infiniti M35 and M45, and Nissan Fuga owners.
Quis
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:01 pm
Car: 2006 M35x
Location: Newport News, Virginia

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I've seen a lot of post with people asking if it's safe to run a stagger set-up on our AWD Infiniti's. From my personal experience, and having friends with EVO's and Audi's with stagger set-up with out any problems.......I would say it's very safe.

People thinks that it's the width of the wheel that will cause problems with the AWD, but actually it's the circumference or the tires.
My rims are 20x8.5 (F), and 20x10 (R) on 245-35-20 (F), and 285-30-20 (R). With this set-up my rolling circumference is within 0.07% between the back and front.

Most people will tell you that's it's a bad idea to run staggers on an AWD car.........which is fine. This is my 3rd AWD Infiniti with this set-up. First I had G35X, FX35, and now M35X. Between all 3 vehicles I've put over 300K running staggers.

Here are a few pics of my car.
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IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2gybywg.jpg[/IMG]
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Ilya
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Car: 2011 M56x but I spend a lot of time on my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S. Former owner of a 2007 M35x. Also take care of my wife's 2016 QX60.
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No one says it isn't safe in the sense that it's actually dangerous. We do not recommend it because:

1) It wasn't designed for that (the AWD system)
2) Most people are too lazy to do the proper calculations (as you have done) to achieve the necessary balance.

Number 2 is where most of us tell people to just stay away from staggered...because then we get a bunch of threads of, "Why is my AWD light on?", etc.

Good for you that you found a combination that works...maybe this will help others.

In my opinion, staggering is about as dumb as that 'stance' fad that is going on. You can't rotate the tires, unless you get ones that aren't directional, which will kill your tread life, etc.

It's just not functional to me. Like negative camber. This is what I'm referring to:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/512 ... c460_o.jpg

^^^ STUPID. :gotme

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szh
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Car: 2018 Tesla Model 3.

Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO!
Location: San Jose, CA

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Folks, staggered wheels are definitely not recommended for the Nissan ATTESSA system used in the AWD Infiniti models - I have spoken with Infiniti engineers on this topic and confirmed this statement.

The system relies on measuring the differences between the front axle and rear axle rotations for its normal operation and may not work properly if the difference is large enough. In some situations, the wear and tear of the AWD system will be greatly accelerated and cause problems later on.

You may think that staggering the front and rear wheels could be compensated for, by selecting different size tires, but this is simply not good enough. The rolling diameter of a tire changes as the velocity changes for example. So, what might be close at one speed may be too far at another.

Most tire manufacturers don't even specify rolling diameter - you have to calculate this carefully from the "revs per mile" number (if it is available) and this is usually at some set speed. Different tire material may also flex differently - particularly when the tire aspect ratio is not the same.

Indeed, different tire brands/models of the exact same size may have different revs per mile! This can be seen from the tire specs ...

So, while staggering may have "worked" for other car models as mentioned in some post above, please stick with identical wheels, and identical tires, on our Infiniti X models.

NOTE as an FYI: I did not say "stick with the OEM wheels", I said "stick with identical wheels". So, if you want to change the wheels to something other than OEM, just get four identical ones and put on four identical (size and brand and model) tires.

Z

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szh
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Yikes, and those tires are badly "stretched" too ... wrong width wheel/tire combo.

At speed, a tire could easily come off the wheel when the bead breaks or comes loose. If fast enough ... the people in the car will be dead when it goes out of control. :ohno:

Z

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Ilya
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Good post Z. I don't understand the infatuation with staggered setups. It seems like a ton more hassle than it's worth.

Quis
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:01 pm
Car: 2006 M35x
Location: Newport News, Virginia

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I'm not here to tell everyone to run out and put a stagger wheel set-up on their AWD Infiniti. I'm just simply saying that from my personal experience with 3 AWD infiniti's putting around 300k on them and having friends with AWD cars with the same set-up, and that none of us ever had a problem with our AWD system.

If anyone feel uncomfortable putting this set-up on their AWD car, it's simply........don't do it. I'm just here to share my experience.

I'm not sure how a stagger set-up is a fad when for years car manufacturer have been using that kind of set-up on their cars especially on their sedans that have a sport package. The stagger set-up is a personal preference that I like, and going in I knew that I wouldn't be able to rotate my tires.

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Ilya
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Quis wrote:I'm not sure how a stagger set-up is a fad when for years car manufacturer have been using that kind of set-up on their cars especially on their sedans that have a sport package. The stagger set-up is a personal preference that I like, and going in I knew that I wouldn't be able to rotate my tires.
The key point here is manufacturers. Who have entire R&D departments to make sure everything works perfectly and it's NEVER on AWD sedans (at least not in Nissan/Infiniti's case). But hey, we are digressing. I'm glad your AWD system is functioning properly on your setup. I still do not condone what you are doing and don't recommend it to other reads reading. But you are right, it's all up to each individual to decide for themselves.

More power to ya.

fat3oy
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:09 am
Car: 07 M35X, 06 350z, 06 RSX, 99 Dajiban
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Awesome calculations... Pain in the a** eh?

I've run a staggerd setup on my X for a good 25-30k miles... no problems at all, and my calculations were very similar to yours. It's all about that rolling diameter.

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szh
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fat3oy wrote:I've run a staggerd setup on my X for a good 25-30k miles... no problems at all, and my calculations were very similar to yours. It's all about that rolling diameter.
And that rolling diameter changes with speed, sidewall flexing (depending on the tire aspect ratio), bumps that you hit, degree of staggering, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, you may not be getting the AWD light because of your closer calculations, and you may indeed think that there are no problems at all, but the ATTESA systems is experiencing more wear and tear than it was designed for. Like I said, I spoke with Infiniti engineers who confirmed this - the company that I work for is in the automotive arena (for tracking systems) and we work closely enough with most of the car manufacturers that I have access to the people who should know. :yesnod

BTW, using staggered wheels on the X model does nothing for handling or ride quality, etc., on our cars. The suspension tuning was designed for identical wheels and tires and, if anything, you are probably reducing some of that design quality and capability.

So, why bother? Like I also said elsewhere, if you want wider wheels and tires, do all four corners on the X model! :yesnod

Finally, you and anyone else can, of course, choose to do staggered wheels on the X models (and I certainly cannot tell you to stop! :yesnod), but I do hope that if/when you sell your car, the next buyer does not regret the cost of fixing the ATTESA system if/when it dies prematurely. :ohno:

Z

fat3oy
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:09 am
Car: 07 M35X, 06 350z, 06 RSX, 99 Dajiban
Location: Charlotte, NC

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I agree does nothing for ride quality at all... Was a form before function decision as i am a stance whore. I have an upgraded valve body, and soon clutch packs, but I monitor the transmission often as I am soon going FI. Have had zero issues.

The changing rolling diameter you described happens with the same wheels on all corners... If the rolling diameter matches at standstill the deviation is small enough to not cause considerable wear.

And my X is payed for and an experimental car for me. I change a lot of things often... actually on a non staggered setup now, as I liked a different wheel set better. Hell on the X i am running 350z coilovers with relativly extreme camber... had to cut off front struts and customize the strut housing just to fit... these things are not an issue.

One thing I do agree with. Doing this to your car is not for those who are not readily educated on the possible issues you can run into.

Thank god I have a shop and can drop the transmission or suspension any time i need.

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CPJ LB
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Car: 12 G37X Sedan- stealthy modded
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^Hey Fat3oy!!!! What's going on my man!!! Haven't seen you on the forum in a while!!! Hope all is good!!!

Would like to know if the 350z or G35 shocks fit our cars ( non X models) seems like they make more shocks options for them compared to the M (I can't find the thread of a fellow member checking the specs)... Also if the drop in air filters are the same???

Anyways, good to hear from you man!!! Keep the mods going!!!

Btw Quis, nice wheel set up you have... Looks good!!!

fat3oy
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:09 am
Car: 07 M35X, 06 350z, 06 RSX, 99 Dajiban
Location: Charlotte, NC

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CPJ LB wrote:^Hey Fat3oy!!!! What's going on my man!!! Haven't seen you on the forum in a while!!! Hope all is good!!!

Would like to know if the 350z or G35 shocks fit our cars ( non X models) seems like they make more shocks options for them compared to the M (I can't find the thread of a fellow member checking the specs)... Also if the drop in air filters are the same???

Anyways, good to hear from you man!!! Keep the mods going!!!

Btw Quis, nice wheel set up you have... Looks good!!!
Whats up bro! Been busy man, overseas at the moment, but shop is going strong.

I would measure first but I am about 90% sure the shocks from a Z will fit just fine. I would pick something stiffer than stocks lbs rate, but as far as size and mount compatability you shouldnt have any issues.

I ditched the stock airbox ages ago... sorry I have no idea if the drop ins are the same... they are def similar in size, but I cant give a for sure answer.

Good to see you are still on here.

Quis
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:01 pm
Car: 2006 M35x
Location: Newport News, Virginia

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CPJ LB wrote:^Hey Fat3oy!!!! What's going on my man!!! Haven't seen you on the forum in a while!!! Hope all is good!!!

Would like to know if the 350z or G35 shocks fit our cars ( non X models) seems like they make more shocks options for them compared to the M (I can't find the thread of a fellow member checking the specs)... Also if the drop in air filters are the same???

Anyways, good to hear from you man!!! Keep the mods going!!!

Btw Quis, nice wheel set up you have... Looks good!!!
CPJ LB.


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