2003 M45 with 30K miles - new owner - fluids to change?

[M45Caliber]

OK -- I just bought my 53rd vehicle last month. I live in AZ but found a pristine 2003 M45, one owner, clean Carfax, all dealer maintained at 2K intervals, new brakes, new Yokohama Avids, etc. I ran the VIN at Cerritos Infiniti prior to purchacing this car for $17,500 -- and eveything has been done @ Infiniti EXCEPT the following (noted by Superstition Springs Infiniti today when I had it in for an oil change today.

They are saying I need to perform a trans. fluid drain/fill, coolant flush, rear Diff. drain/fill, PS fluid drain/fill and PB drain/fill and intake/injector flush. The car only has 30K miles on it, but it is almost 5 years old. It has lived an easy So Cal life at the hands of a 68 YO lady. (BTW - do NOT buy tires from a dealer - she paid $1,700 for these tires, and Discount Tire lists them for around $200 each - yikes!).

I read the owners manual and it does give some idea on the trans and coolant services, but not on anything else. What is the forum's consensus on this? I will NOT do the injector service, as I only use a Tier 1 Premium gas, and I run a bottle of Techron through all my cars at 5K intervals.

I can see the reasons for the trans and coolant, due to age. I am unsure about spending the bucks on the Diff., PS, & PB - especially because of the easy life this car has led (until it met ME!).

SO guys, what are your suggestions -- and why? Thanks in advance -- Will

[Andrew224]

Welcome to the community!

My '03 is at about 34k miles, so I'm in the same boat as you. I intend to keep my car for a while and feel that preventative maintenance now will reap its benefits after my vehicle turns over 100k miles. I'm having all the services you described performed during my next servicing at the dealer. Some are due because of the mileage and others because of the age of the car or a combination of the two.

This is an expensive vehicle and its components require a bit more maintenance to remain high performance for an extended period of time.

Trans fluid, every 30k to 40k miles. After a period of time, the fluid will start to break down and will get dirty as do all fluids. You don't necessarily need a flush. A drain and replace will be good enough.

Break fluid and power steering fluid will get cloudy from contaminates and condensation that have collected in each respective system over the past 5 years.

Coolant should be flushed as well. Fresh coolant mix will ensure you don't get corrosion / blockage within your engine's coolant passages. Also ensures that your engine runs at the proper temperature.

Rear differential... The lubricant breaks down after a period of time. You could stretch this out for a while longer as you have low mileage.

I'm sure you can get away with not changing any of these fluids and your car will be fine up to around 100k. After that, the damage will be done and your car will deteriorate quickly.

Look at it this way... You just bought a fantastic vehicle for less than half what I paid for mine just 3 years ago and about a third of what it cost new, 5 years ago. It's worth the $500 or so to get fresh fluids in your car (and you'll know that they are fresh). You'll thank yourself years down the road when your M is still running strong. You have the benefit of knowing that your M was well taken care of before you, keep that track record going.

So in short, yes, have these services performed. The dealer was not trying to blow smoke up your a**.

Andrew

[szh]

Welcome to NICO!

At 30k (particularly after so many years), some fluid changes are a definite must:

a. Yes, flush (powered using the BG or similar machines) the transmission - not just a drain and fill. Remember to ask for Nissan Fluid J for the ATF. This will help transmission longevity for sure. Every 30k miles is a good interval.

b. Change/flush the power steering fluid. After so many years, it is needed. Again, every 30k miles is a good interval.

c. Change/flush the cooling fan fluid (Yes, there is such a thing on the car! ) Most people don't know about this one!

d. Yes, I'd drain and change the differential gear oil. Use a synthetic gear oil (like Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 or 75W-140). This is relatively inexpensive and easy for you to do yourself if you are mechanically inclined - a lift makes it easier and safer, since I do not trust jackstands.

e. Change the brake fluid if it has not been done in two years. The fluid accumulates water over time and reduces braking capability.

f. The injector rail flush is not strictly needed. I would get a can of BG-44K and use it per the methods I have posted before - only if you have any engine hesitation or stumbling. Using Techron is a good idea, but the BG-44K is a much higher concentration and better - I use one can about 2 tankfuls of gas (500-600 miles) before every oil change (at 3750 mile intervals).

g. Coolant flush is also a good idea after so many years - particularly if it has not been done recently (within the past two years).

And, again, welcome to NICO! You will love your car for sure.

BTW, if you plan to keep the car past the warranty period (which may be the case already based on the years here), then an Extended Warranty is a Good Idea - modern car electronics are expensive to replace if they go out!

Z

[M45Caliber]

Thanks for all of the tips and thoughts. I'll need to do a little more research; here's why. I don't have any problems spending the cash to maintain this 4-door rocket ship. But I don't like tossing money down the drain, either.

The dealer here in AZ tells me I need these services. Last night, I pulled the Print Out Cerritos Infiniti provided me when I ran the VIN prior to purchase. Without boring all of you to tears, here's the run down on what was done: (all service work was performed at Infiniti dealer # 70317 - How to I find out the NAME of that dealer so I can call them about WHAT they perform on the 30K service?)

Oil and filter every 1,900 to 2,200 miles

at 27,000 miles, I show that the 30K service was performed at Dealer 70317, for $540. WHAT did they actually DO?

at 29,515 (a week before I bought it) Dealer 71107 (Cerritos) changed out the accessory belts, oil/filter, 4-wheel align, tire rotation and Brake Fluid flush --- wouldn't that (brake fluid) have also been done @ the 30K service performed 2,000 miles earlier?

So, my questions are two-fold: WHAT is normally done on a $550 30K service? I would guess transmission and coolant, plus oil/filter/cabin filter, etc.

And if this IS the case, why is my new Infiniti dealer recomending that I do this again? Oversight on their part (didn't research the history far enough back?) There are 5 pages of service history on this car, including R&R of the trunk struts, R&R of the CD changer (3 times!) new brakes, new tires, and all of the oil changes, plus the above. Given this, perhaps the dealer didn't "notice" that the 30K had been done and assumed I needed it or -- do they know what exactly was done at the 30K at Dealer 70317?

Sorry for all the details -- I just don't want to throw good money after good money!

I'm taking my wifes new G35EX in for the initial 3,750 service on Friday, so maybe I'll sit down with the service advisor and dig deeper.

This M45 is my 4th Infiniti, and It's GREAT! I basically wanted a Japanese 4-door Mustang GT... and that's exactly what I have!

I'll post pics when I can -- the Borla exhaust looks cool on this car. I also found a Mercedes "V8" chrome emblem on eBay - the exact size of the M45 on the trunk - and installed that on the left of the trunk, opposite the M45 logo. Dealer even asked about that; wanted to know if it was some kind of California "special edition" or something.

Like most of you, I bought this car because it doesn't look like a bar of soap; it's angular and swoopy all at the same time. My 15 YO daughter thinks the front "looks angry" -- I like that!

[szh]

Oil and filter every 1,900 to 2,200 miles

That is excellent ... looks like the owner believed in time-based changes, since she was not driving it a lot.

I do my oil and filter changes every 3750 miles - this is usually less than 3 months.

at 27,000 miles, I show that the 30K service was performed at Dealer 70317, for $540. WHAT did they actually DO?

Probably the basic stuff and extras ... I have a post around here that describes it.

at 29,515 (a week before I bought it) Dealer 71107 (Cerritos) changed out the accessory belts, oil/filter, 4-wheel align, tire rotation and Brake Fluid flush --- wouldn't that (brake fluid) have also been done @ the 30K service performed 2,000 miles earlier?

No, as I recall, the standard 30k mile service does not include brake fluid changes. So, having had it done at this 29515 mile point was good!

So, my questions are two-fold: WHAT is normally done on a $550 30K service? I would guess transmission and coolant, plus oil/filter/cabin filter, etc.

Nope, the transmission is definitely not included, but I forget about the coolant. So, yes, I would do the transmission flush for sure now, and if the coolant has not been changed, then I would do that too.

Like most of you, I bought this car because it doesn't look like a bar of soap; it's angular and swoopy all at the same time. My 15 YO daughter thinks the front "looks angry" -- I like that!

I agree on the bar of soap comparison to just about all the new cars that are available out there nowadays! The unique looks of the 2003 M45 were what got my wife and I hooked on it. Instantly recognizable on the road.

Z

[M45Caliber]

Any ideas? How can I find out the NAME of the Infiniti dealer by the dealer number that is part of the service record print out? Dealer # 70317

[szh]

Any ideas? How can I find out the NAME of the Infiniti dealer by the dealer number that is part of the service record print out? Dealer # 70317

I am not sure ... I'd try calling Infiniti Corporate (the number is in the Owner's Manual, as I recall).

Z

[maxnix]

Here's the deal, dealers have some leeway in services offered. They only have to meet the minimum OEM requirements. A moment of reflection should cause the ponderer to wonder if these requirements are to maximize the life of the car, or just get it out or warranty so the big ticket items fail when it's on the owner's dime?

For an example, I noticed one of my cars had the 30K and 60 K service at the dealer. But I could not verify that the differential fluid had been changed at the 30K service. So I stopped by and asked, "Do you change the differential fluid during the 30K service?"

The answer was, "We inspect it and unless it looks bad we don't change it."

My response was, "Isn't it a little late if it already looks bad?"

Very few dealers perform a mechanical fluid exchange when they service the transmission. None that I know do a pan drop, inspection, clean, internal filter replacement with new O ring, then reassemble with new gasket and one time use bolts. The latter steps can be skipped the first time if the original fluid appears pristine, but at later intervals, it can be fatal if clutch material and other detritus if sufficeint to inhibit the flow rate or even clog the screen. Most don't realize that only the larger particles are on the surface of the screen while most of hte microscopic ones are trapped within its mesh.

Likewise, no dealers recommend the addtion of an auxiliary ATF cooler, something that will stabilize ATF temperature and extend the transmission's life.

Same thing with the even more stressed power steering fluid. Most dealers never change it until it is brown, which is too late.

For an comprehensive account of maintenance routines for as new performance beyond the initial warranty period, read Q45tech's posts. All of them including the links that are still active.

[M45Caliber]

OK -- thanks for all the feedback on this. I called Infiniti corp and got the dealer name and number by giving them the dealer number that I had (Metro Infiniti in Monrovia, CA)

I called and spoke with one of the Service Managers, who looked up my car and said they did the following work @ 30K - it's the $639 service but there was a $100 off coupon used...

Trans Fluid drain/fill (says a "flush" now voids the warranty!)Oil/Filerair filtercabin filterwiper bladesrotate tiresand the usual "inspections" of misc parts, lube hinges, yadda, yadda

I can't believe they get away with charging $640 for this, when you could go in to the dealer and ask for these same services, ala carte, and pay maybe $275. Go figure.

Then the brake fluid and belts were changed 2K miles later @ Cerritos Infinti

The service manager said don't do the PS fluid - it's good for 100 to 150K miles "and never wears out"! That's hard to believe

He also said that coolant is mileage related and time doesn't matter -- that waiting until 60K is fine (who IS this guy?) Ditto comment on the Diff oil.

So -- what I am going to have done @ the next oil change is coolant flush, diff oil changed and PS fluid drain or flush... after 5 years, I think this is a prudent course to take.

[M45Caliber]

Also -- I've spoken with 3 service advisors and 2 service managers (Infiniti) and NONE of them have ever heard of "Cooling Fan FLuid"hrase

I just googled that "phrase" and nothing comes up either --

szhosain - can you elaborate on this recommendation or point me in the right direction as to where this item is located, etc.?

It would be fun to "show the dealer something they don't know!"

thanks --

[maxnix]

Cooling fan fluid? I don't think the silicone fluid can be changed.

[CakeDaddy]

I also found a Mercedes "V8" chrome emblem on eBay - the exact size of the M45 on the trunk - and installed that on the left of the trunk, opposite the M45 logo.

CakeDaddy is crying out loud asking "por que por que. me dicen por que" Tell me why.

You are probably the first to add badges while some of us are trying to rid of them, but anyhow...Welcome to Nicoooooooo!!!

Minus the "M45" stamp:


Modified by CakeDaddy at 4:07 PM 6/6/2008

[szh]

Cooling fan fluid? I don't think the silicone fluid can be changed.

Nope! On the Y34, there is indeed a Cooling Fan Fluid that can be changed - procedure is described in the Service Manuals. It is Nissan PSF II fluid.

Z

[szh]

Also -- I've spoken with 3 service advisors and 2 service managers (Infiniti) and NONE of them have ever heard of "Cooling Fan FLuid"hrase

I just googled that "phrase" and nothing comes up either --

szhosain - can you elaborate on this recommendation or point me in the right direction as to where this item is located, etc.?

It would be fun to "show the dealer something they don't know!"

thanks --

1. Show them page 8-4 of the 2003 M45 Owner's Manual and ask them why item 4 on that diagram points to a "Cooling Fan Fluid Reservoir" if there is no Cooling Fan Fluid!

2. Ask them why they don't check it every time the car is in for service ... show them the instructions on page 8-10 and ask them why they don't check the Cooling Fan Fluid level!

3. Show them the instructions on page 9-4 and ask them why they don't check the Cooling Fan Fluid lines for "proper attachment, leaks, cracks, etc." like it says to do!

4. Show them the Capacity tables on page 10-2 and ask them why it says to use Nissan PSF II for the Cooling Fan Fluid.

By this time, they ought to get it! If not, ask them to look at page CO-18 through CO-20 of the 2003 M45 Service Manual in the Engine Cooling section, which shows how to replace the Cooling Fan Fluid entirely!

Remember to tell them to bleed the air out of the lines properly when they change the fluid, and have them check the fins of the "Cooling Fan Fluid Cooler" while they are at it ... yes, the Cooling Fan Fluid has a Cooler too!

Enjoy having fun with the Service Advisors on this item!!

BTW, I believe in RTFM ... when I first got my car, I read through the Owners Manual front to back and was taken by surprise by this too! When I asked my Service Advisor to change it, he was flabbergasted, but he checked ... and sure enough ... he found it in the Service Manual and I had it done.

FWIW, on my new car purchases, I like to do some crazy things. Somewhere in the first few hundreds to 10k miles, I like to replace all fluids near moving parts in the car. Manufacturing procedures and tolerances being what they are, metal is often "deburred" into the fluids during the early operation of the vehicle. I believe in removing these before they can cause problems elsewhere!

Enjoy!!

Z

[Andrew224]

I was told that the transmission fluid flush may damage the transmission due to the type and amount of pressure that is placed on certain parts that during normal operation, these parts aren't subjected to. That's what my service manager told me anyways. So that's why I went with a drain / refill.

I'm not a transmission expert by any means so I took his word for it. The drain / refill was about $30 less too. Usually the service managers don't down-sell you so I figured it was for good reason.

And thanks for the cooling fan fluid info Z. I know for a fact that mine has never been changed. Guess the next time I'm in for maintenance, I'll go in with copies of those pages of the service manual and request that it be done.

As far as the differential oil change goes... What kind of gasket needs to be replaced for the drain plug? Is it just a basic washer or is it a crush washer or a washer I need to get from the dealer? How accessible are the plugs? And finally, will I need some type of filler tube with a pump to fill-er-up with the new fluid?

Just trying to gauge if it's worth it to try and do it myself or just have the dealer do it and save myself a possible headache. I do enjoy doing things myself to "bond" with my car, but only when I'm well prepaired and feel it's within my capabilities and I can do it right.

Thanks again.

Andrew
Modified by Andrew224 at 9:40 PM 6/11/2008