2003 M45 Oil consumption test?

[M45Caliber]

I am taking my 2003 M45 (currently at 38,000 miles) in for another oil/filter change in a few weeks. I mentioned to the service manager @ Infiniti of Superstition Springs, while I had my wifes EX35 in for an oil change last week, that I am adding between 2 and 3 quarts of oil between changes on the M45; oil changes which I have been doing (only at Infiniti) at 2500 to 3500 mile intervals since the car was new.

He said that when I bring it in they will perform an Oil Consumption test.

Exactly WHAT is that, how is it performed and what has been the consensus and outcome for any of you NICOers that have had this test performed?

I'm assuming they change the oil, double check to make sure the sump is topped off and reading full on the dip stick, then wire the drain plug, dip stick and oil cap shut so I can't eff with it at all? Then have me bring it back every 1,000 miles or something for a look-see?

No smoke at start up, but adding 2 to 3 quarts seems excessive on a motor that has only 38K miles on it and has been serviced every 2,500 to 3,500 miles ONLY at Infiniti dealers. I can't recall ANY car that I've owned in the last 15 years that required more than maybe 1/2 quart max between changes. And this M45 is my 56th car owned (no, that's not a typo).

Will this oil consumption problem get worse, or will it stay at about 2 1/2 quarts added between changes?

And finally, at what consumption point does Infiniti finally break down and replace your engine?

thanks -- M45Caliber

[SteveTheTech]

Ahh my favorite test the oil consumption. We know for the most part a motor will almost always follow but they make us wait and see how much oil it is loosing over a period of time, then we get to put a long block in. Yay Fun

I highly doubt you will find any information about the VK oil consuming specs with any legitimacy, there is a range but you will not find it published. Since you are out of warranty but a multiple owner and loyal service department customer the likelihood of getting a new engine look good in your specific case.

The breakdown is basically Infiniti requires documentation of at least 3 checks withing 3,000 miles, each time we need to inspect the oil consumed. Some people drain the oil every 1K to get an accurate measurement, but that is not always possible and the VKs dipstick is allot more accurate than the VQ and its variance can be trusted. It boils down to red tape.

Given what Nissan had to deal with in the past with bogus warranty claims (big problem in the late 80's early 90's) it makes sense why they would require the service department to perform and document and call for authorization when replacing an engine assembly (in your case a job that will cost the company in excess of 10 grand). They do not want to part with their money willingly, although they will if it is justified they just want to make sure.

Other readers of this-Please note that not all VKs have excessive oil consumption, there is no pattern in this complaint. I have seen a wide variety of VIN ranges and mileages as well as all kinds of service history or lack their of. Given the fact that many of the early VKs are on their second third of higher owner some of them have had colorful pasts. I have seen some 02Qs with almost 200K not consume a drop of oil after being bought at an auction with no dealer service history since it was PDI'd and initially inspected, after it's delivery. Then there is your car five years old and has <40k on it.

I would consider that WIN though, since it seems that you are using more oil than you should be and you are the original owner (that makes a HUGE difference). Infiniti will do allot more for original owners, sorry to rain on the parades of some of the other members here but that is how all companies are, with cars that are out of standard warranty ranges.

[M45Caliber]

S.T.T -- thanks for the feed back --

Question -- isn't the factory drivetrain warranty 6 years/70K miles (which means I'm still covered)? And, I have the Infiniti Elite warranty good for 3 more years/36K miles (zero deductible). Does that help me in this case?

I also currently own a 2008 EX35 and sold my dealer serviced 1999 Q45 and 2001 G20 a few years back -- I've owned 4 Infiniti's over the past 10 years (currently owning two of them) I am hoping that the dealer/Infiniti takes all this into consideration.

Anything else I need to know or be aware of here?

[qship96]

You are still under standard factory powertrain warrany as long as you are less than 72 months from original in service date{date originally sold}

[M45Caliber]

In Service Date was 11/15/03 -- so we are at ~62 months and 38K miles. Plus the Elite warranty (which I added last month) should also cover this if it drags on past 10 more months... I hope. Thanks guys --

[maxnix]

Don't fall for the company line that a qt. every 1K miles is "acceptable."

[Q45tech]

The company line is what ever the company wants it to be.

There is no legal definition of excessive oil consumption. Whatever Nissan decides to pay for unless you can convience them otherwise.

When they redesigned the old 90-96 4.5 liter V8 to increase published HP and torque the use of thinner, narrower lead free bearings and light duty piston rings resulted in more oil consumption compared to the earlier more robust design........................a fact every automotive engineer understands.

High Power Nascar engines consume 1 quart every 50-75 miles so 1 quart every 1,000 miles is ragged edge tolerable considering the design and power output.

The same problem happen to Lexus V8 when they went from 4.0>4.3>4.6-4.7 and now to 5.0.

The downside of too much oil use is the negative effect it has on cats and emissions but that doesn't usually show up until 100k+

[qship96]

You are in a tough spot....do you live with it as is, or gamble with a new engine {that may or may not consume oil differently than what you currently have} and have the added concern of having the complex job of engine removal/reinstall job being done perfectly?

I would not be real confident in having dealer employees remove my engine/swap over all the externals to new motor and reinstall to same level of precision the factory does.....too many small things to go wrong or short-cuts taken

[Q45tech]

All it takes for master technican to do an extraordinary good job vs a satisfactory job is extra monetary motivation to make up for the money he is loosing vs customer paid.....................the 5 hours he is loosing doing an engine swap is an after tax $80- $100.

I once [in 1995] took the technican, service writer and service manager to a very expensive lunch [$164] prior to getting some warranty work done the next day. But I was a regular at this FLA dealership.

Obviously no dealership is equipt to do internal parts replacement vs the Japanese factory.

[SteveTheTech]

You are in a tough spot....do you live with it as is, or gamble with a new engine {that may or may not consume oil differently than what you currently have} and have the added concern of having the complex job of engine removal/reinstall job being done perfectly?

I would not be real confident in having dealer employees remove my engine/swap over all the externals to new motor and reinstall to same level of precision the factory does.....too many small things to go wrong or short-cuts taken

Why is everything you say so negative? If you have nothing constructive to offer the thread please stop throwing your hat in the ring.

I am now in charge of this forum and will not tolerate this bs anymore. In the past no one was in charge of IOM in looking through some of the past threads here and I will not be tolerating this flaming anymore.

[qship96]

Why is everything you say so negative? If you have nothing constructive to offer the thread please stop throwing your hat in the ring.

I am now in charge of this forum and will not tolerate this bs anymore. In the past no one was in charge of IOM in looking through some of the past threads here and I will not be tolerating this flaming anymore.

I stated my opinion based on my personal experience{the last 27 years driving nothing but nissan/infiniti vehicles,all but one purchased brand new and all serviced at authorised dealers}.....I am not "flaming" anyone.....your reply makes you seem too hot headed to be a moderator of a forum where owners speak of their experiences........maybe you should ponder what you wrote and reconsider your position.

[SteveTheTech]

I not thread jacking a legitimate thread with uselessness with you again.

Congratulations on the 20+ years of ownership and your most of your input is very appreciated here, but your attitude sucks.

[qship96]

Apology accepted.......ones attitude towards something is forged by their personal experiences. May you rise above the masses and become a change agent.

[SteveTheTech]

You are in a tough spot....do you live with it as is, or gamble with a new engine {that may or may not consume oil differently than what you currently have} and have the added concern of having the complex job of engine removal/reinstall job being done perfectly?

I would not be real confident in having dealer employees remove my engine/swap over all the externals to new motor and reinstall to same level of precision the factory does.....too many small things to go wrong or short-cuts taken

The standard replacement VK is actually an impressive setup. They actually send you a long block in a crate with almost all the sensors and pretty much the only thing to swap the the accessories (Alternator,PS pump, AC compressor and idlers) the exhaust and intakes. Pretty simple job, it's just time consuming and most techs have done so many of these we can do them in our sleep. When I get a motor I know where every single bolt nut and screw go as well as the tools for the job. In my shop every tech is the same way. It is not that we do hundreds of engines it's just something you learn how to do as part of the job. Most people do indeed ask questions too, as a general group we don't want to have a comeback, it's especially bad for the younger guys their jobs are always on the line.

Don't fall for the company line that a qt. every 1K miles is "acceptable."

Does anyone here have any Caddy experience. They burn a ton of oil. I worked for Benz for a little while and all their V8s burn oil. They also take 12+qts of oil so if you drop a few it's not like a car that burns 2-3 of 5. It is a sad downside to new technology and increased needs and changing federal requirements that many of them not burn some oil on start-up.

To M45Caliber. The reason I made the previous statement is the sad fact that many people are out of their powertrain warranty by time and not nearly close on mileage. They do offer a good will plan in some instances but you do not need that. You will be pleased if they do actually replace your long block. If all goes as it should, and I am sure by now there is a senior tech who primarily works on your car.

[SteveTheTech]

Apology accepted.......ones attitude towards something is forged by their personal experiences. May you rise above the masses and become a change agent.

I can say the same for the majority of old Q owners from my experiences.

[NJ 666]

Every one I did warranty would only give us a short block. Most of the replacements burned oil too. One Q I put a short block in at 11k and another 1 in at 22k. At 35k the owner wanted another one but Infiniti basically said no.

And honestly, I wouldn't want my engine changed by most dealer techs. Dealers do have better support and training but there are plenty of animals there as well. And I can't stand when someone brags about XX years of dealer exp.......maybe they've been doing garbage work for XX years.

If you do have the engine replaced just stop in on occasion and see how the car is being treated, ask the tech a few questions, ask to look under the car when it is done and see if the foreman will go on a road test with you.

[SteveTheTech]

Every one I did warranty would only give us a short block. Most of the replacements burned oil too. One Q I put a short block in at 11k and another 1 in at 22k. At 35k the owner wanted another one but Infiniti basically said no.

And honestly, I wouldn't want my engine changed by most dealer techs. Dealers do have better support and training but there are plenty of animals there as well. And I can't stand when someone brags about XX years of dealer exp.......maybe they've been doing garbage work for XX years.

If you do have the engine replaced just stop in on occasion and see how the car is being treated, ask the tech a few questions, ask to look under the car when it is done and see if the foreman will go on a road test with you.

I have to agree with most of the above. I wouldn't trust anyone doing a short block. That is a stupid idea, and not worth the work at all. Infiniti will indeed pay for a long block and if there is damage to the cams from running while low on oil they tend not to question it.Replacing just a short block is becoming a lost art form, I do not think they want to make a financial gamble when the total cost is so close now. The cost of all the gaskets and 25+hrs of labor plus any subsequent repair will turn out to be more than the cost of a long block and the 8-10 hrs to replace and there is a much lower likelihood of an issue. That's just what I have seen. You can indeed ask to see whatever you want, but most people would not want to see almost everything that makes their car go layed out on the floor. I had a bunch of pics from the last VQ I did let me see if I can dig up what the mess looks like. I know if I were the owner of one of these cars and not a tech I wouldn't want to see that.

I do agree with you that seniority or years in do not mean so much. You need to find someone who actually cares about your car. That is why I have been advising many owners that I meet here on Nico it to put a face to the person who you trust to service your car. If you meet this person and talk to them when you go in, you should be more comfortable or you may ask for someone else. You would be surprised what this little bit of personal contact will do for everyone involved. There is a lot of mystery around bringing your car in to any service center. You are leaving your keys and car with strangers and god knows how many people will drive it while it's there and you don't personally know the person who will be fixing it. So why not take one of those variable out of that equation? Just ask to talk to the guys, if they don't allow you to, then I would be highly suspicious. That is a red flag.

[maxnix]

I think there is some valid empirical evidence in these posts, so black washing them as "negative" is a disservice to the forum's members.

The world is not all soft, warm, fuzzy and rosy. The thorns must be noted.

[M45Caliber]

lots of good stuff within this thread. I didn't know that a single tech might be assigned to a single car; that's something I will ask the service manager about. If so I will ask to meet my tech and if he is the one to do the swap (assuming that occurs) he is the one that I will slip a C-note to when I bring it in. (SteveTheTech - want the job? LOL)

The dealer I go to seems to do great work; I've been very impressed so far. Took in my wifes EX35 a few months back because at "certain" speeds on "certain" road surfaces, you could hear a light buzzing or rattle coming from under the car. I thought it might be a heat shield (assuming there even is one - never been under the car). There are a ton of parts hanging under a car, so finding the culprit can be daunting.

Took the car for a drive with the tech in the passenger seat and miraculously got the noise to reproduce itself for a few seconds total. This has to be that hardest thing to locate and fix. An hour later (including the oil/filter change) the car was brought out and on the drive home, no more buzz/rattle. The wife was thrilled (which means I was thrilled).

The long block vs short block is an interesting question and one I will bring up during the consumption test process. Assuming they decide to replace it, I will push strongly for a long-block, as a good point was brought up concerning cam wear, etc. I will want the block and the heads replaced.

Are there ANY changes to the replacement engines that might mitigate the oil consumption on the new engine? Better rings or different bearings? Or is it the exact engine with the same roll of the dice?

thanks for all the feedback so far --

[maxnix]

The incidences in the later VK seems to be less by anecdotes on these forums.

Just keep the oil and filters fresh, and read Szhosain's post on the ideal break in routine. Most metal is lost within the first few hundred miles!