2003 M45 keeps stalling when driving [SOLVED - camshaft sensor]

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Dxta
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2003 M45 keeps stalling when driving [SOLVED - camshaft sensor]

Postby Dxta » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:22 am

Before I embarked on a long distance trip last week, I had to replaced my spark plugs, removed and manually cleaned the injectors. I drove the car in town for sometime, before putting it on the road. While I was returning back from my trip, I suddenly noticed the car stalling, each time it gets to operating temperature.
Here are the symptoms I get:
1. Each time I accelerate, the engine kind of losses power, and suddenly goes off.

2. The exhaust tail pipe is black when one touches it, which depicts excess fuel consumption.

3. Before the engine stalls, the ABS light would come on, and no matter how I push hard on the accelerator, the more I get no response. It's at this point, that the engine dies.

4. Trying to crank the engine, it appears as if the battery is dead. I had to borrow a battery from another car to jump start it. Immediately, the car started

5. Drove the car for awhile on the road, the ABS light came on again, and I lost acceleration.
This time around, it dawned on me that this problem wasn't a battery issue.

6. When I engage it on neutral N, the RPM fluctuates between 800-1000rpm, before it dies

7. No battery light that came on the dashboard, to suggest an alternator problem.

Questions:
1. Is it possible for the alternator to go bad without battery indicator light showing on the dashboard?

2. Is this problem some kind of ground related problem?

3. Is replacing the alternator a better option to fix this frequent stalling?

4. I'm leaning towards maybe the cam sensors are bad, and needs replacing.

5. Can bad cam sensors cause the excessive fuel consumption or poor fuel economy experienced?

Has anyone experienced this problem before?
Last edited by EdBwoy on Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated title with solution


EniGmA1987
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby EniGmA1987 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:15 pm

How did you manually clean your injectors? Normally an injector cleaning service is not equipment someone has at home nor is flow checking them afterwards.

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:24 pm

:yesnod
EniGmA1987 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:15 pm
How did you manually clean your injectors? Normally an injector cleaning service is not equipment someone has at home nor is flow checking them afterwards.
By manually removing them, and using battery power source to connect them(energizing them ), while using pressurised injector cleaner through the injectors. That's how it's been done here in my part of town, considering the cost of decarbonization services.

What amazes me is when the transmission is in N, idling fluctuates, but seems to be stable on 1000rpm.

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:28 am

Scanned the car for codes, and retrieved the following:
1. Engine side:
P1772 brake solenoid
P0037 oxygen sensor heater bank1
P0327 knock sensor circuit bank 1
P0445 purge valve

2. Transmission
U1000
P1815

3. Airbag
B1129
B1134
B1054

Can a p1772 and p1815 cause some of the issues I was having pls? Anybody to help?

It appears this makes the battery discharges, even when driving, and the car just stalls.

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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby EdBwoy » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:55 pm

It seems like you have an electrical issue of sorts. That's the only way I can see you getting codes for all these seemingly unrelated systems.

I will answer a few questiins that you asked.
Re: Cam sensor (single - there's only one in the M45)
1. It rarely causes fuel consumption issues to a level discernible by most drivers
2. No reports of it discharging the battery
3. Yes, it can cause driveability issues such as randomly dying
4. It also typically manifests as starting issues
5. Unfortunately it doesnt always throw a code whennit becomes an issue, and thankfully it doesnt trigger wrong codes to mislead you.


The question on fuel is an interesting angle to iron out. Are you using premium fuel?

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm

EdBwoy wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:55 pm
It seems like you have an electrical issue of sorts. That's the only way I can see you getting codes for all these seemingly unrelated systems.

I will answer a few questiins that you asked.
Re: Cam sensor (single - there's only one in the M45)
1. It rarely causes fuel consumption issues to a level discernible by most drivers
2. No reports of it discharging the battery
3. Yes, it can cause driveability issues such as randomly dying
4. It also typically manifests as starting issues
5. Unfortunately it doesnt always throw a code whennit becomes an issue, and thankfully it doesnt trigger wrong codes to mislead you.


The question on fuel is an interesting angle to iron out. Are you using premium fuel?
Thanks for the feedback.
One thing I'm still wondering is, what's the recommended alternator charging voltage? On my previous alternator, it was reading 14.5V, when not loaded. Immediately I load it with headlamps, radio, horn blaring, it drops to 14.2V. I was thinking this was wrong, so had to buy another alternator from a junk yard here. Installed it, and it was reading the same 14.5V on my multimeter.

Is this too high, or what?

Could this be the reason why I discovered the AC fuses at the passenger side blown, and subsequently the AC amplifier board was blown when I was troubleshooting the causes of the AC fuses just keeps blowing?

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:13 pm

I'm also thinking the P1815 and P1772 low coast brake solenoid valve in the transmission, could be the reasons sometimes I get a flare s***, or gears stuck in a certain gear.

I'd open up the transmission pan, remove the TCM, and inspect the valves, boards, before thinking of replacing the transmission.

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VStar650CL
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:34 pm

Dxta wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm
One thing I'm still wondering is, what's the recommended alternator charging voltage? On my previous alternator, it was reading 14.5V, when not loaded. Immediately I load it with headlamps, radio, horn blaring, it drops to 14.2V. I was thinking this was wrong, so had to buy another alternator from a junk yard here. Installed it, and it was reading the same 14.5V on my multimeter.

Is this too high, or what?
The 14.5V is fine, most N/I alternators output 14.1~14.6V on internal regulation. N/I CANbuses usually malfunction starting at about 15.5V, so even 15V will generally damage nothing but the battery.
Dxta wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm
Could this be the reason why I discovered the AC fuses at the passenger side blown, and subsequently the AC amplifier board was blown when I was troubleshooting the causes of the AC fuses just keeps blowing?
Hmm, was there by chance anything rattling around inside the dead HVAC Unit? Maximas from the same timeframe as your ride have a nasty habit we call the "piggy bank". The HVAC Amps were directly underneath the shelf in front of the center display, and there was a gap between the display and shelf that could allow coins placed on the shelf to drop inside the dashboard. There was an open programming slot on top of the HVAC Amps that was exactly the right size for a penny falling down to enter. A nickel or quarter would jam the slot and you'd never have a problem, but a penny or dime falling through would short-circuit the HVAC and cause anything from blown fuses to a dead dash or even a shorted CAN bus. Nissan's fix was simple, new HVAC Amps came with a piece of tape over the slot. I wonder if it isn't possible your M has the same setup. :inout:

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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 am

VStar650CL wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:34 pm
Dxta wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm
One thing I'm still wondering is, what's the recommended alternator charging voltage? On my previous alternator, it was reading 14.5V, when not loaded. Immediately I load it with headlamps, radio, horn blaring, it drops to 14.2V. I was thinking this was wrong, so had to buy another alternator from a junk yard here. Installed it, and it was reading the same 14.5V on my multimeter.

Is this too high, or what?
The 14.5V is fine, most N/I alternators output 14.1~14.6V on internal regulation. N/I CANbuses usually malfunction starting at about 15.5V, so even 15V will generally damage nothing but the battery.
Dxta wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm
Could this be the reason why I discovered the AC fuses at the passenger side blown, and subsequently the AC amplifier board was blown when I was troubleshooting the causes of the AC fuses just keeps blowing?
Hmm, was there by chance anything rattling around inside the dead HVAC Unit? Maximas from the same timeframe as your ride have a nasty habit we call the "piggy bank". The HVAC Amps were directly underneath the shelf in front of the center display, and there was a gap between the display and shelf that could allow coins placed on the shelf to drop inside the dashboard. There was an open programming slot on top of the HVAC Amps that was exactly the right size for a penny falling down to enter. A nickel or quarter would jam the slot and you'd never have a problem, but a penny or dime falling through would short-circuit the HVAC and cause anything from blown fuses to a dead dash or even a shorted CAN bus. Nissan's fix was simple, new HVAC Amps came with a piece of tape over the slot. I wonder if it isn't possible your M has the same setup. :inout:
Thanks so much. Now o can rest knowing the output voltage from the alternator is correct.

There was no noise that came from the blower area. It just suddenly stopped working.

Are there compatible blowers and AC amplifier ( the one attached on the side of the blower from any Nissan/Infiniti that can work for my vehicle?

Here's the part number of the amplifier: 27760 CR910
3W802 34710

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VStar650CL
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby VStar650CL » Sat May 01, 2021 12:45 pm

Dxta wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 am
There was no noise that came from the blower area. It just suddenly stopped working.

Are there compatible blowers and AC amplifier ( the one attached on the side of the blower from any Nissan/Infiniti that can work for my vehicle?

Here's the part number of the amplifier: 27760 CR910
3W802 34710
I looked at a parts diagram for an '06 (don't know what year you have) and the HVAC Amp isn't located in a danger zone like the Maxes. If your only issue is the blower and the Amp wakes up and doesn't blow fuses with the blower unplugged, then chances are you just have a bad blower. The M's use a BLDC (brushless) fan similar to the gen4~5 Altima, so there's no separate VBC, which makes it easy to check. There will be 3 wires into the blower, one small and two large. With the connector loose from the fan, measure voltage on the thin wire while moving the blower speed control up and down. You should see a changing voltage as you change the speed (usually negative, the voltage drops as the desired speed increases). If you see a moving voltage then the Amp is working properly and the problem is the blower.

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Sat May 01, 2021 1:09 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 12:45 pm
Dxta wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 am
There was no noise that came from the blower area. It just suddenly stopped working.

Are there compatible blowers and AC amplifier ( the one attached on the side of the blower from any Nissan/Infiniti that can work for my vehicle?

Here's the part number of the amplifier: 27760 CR910
3W802 34710
I looked at a parts diagram for an '06 (don't know what year you have) and the HVAC Amp isn't located in a danger zone like the Maxes. If your only issue is the blower and the Amp wakes up and doesn't blow fuses with the blower unplugged, then chances are you just have a bad blower. The M's use a BLDC (brushless) fan similar to the gen4~5 Altima, so there's no separate VBC, which makes it easy to check. There will be 3 wires into the blower, one small and two large. With the connector loose from the fan, measure voltage on the thin wire while moving the blower speed control up and down. You should see a changing voltage as you change the speed (usually negative, the voltage drops as the desired speed increases). If you see a moving voltage then the Amp is working properly and the problem is the blower.
My AC amplier, when I opened it open, I was it was blown around the mosfets or so. That means I got to replace the amplifier, and that's why asking if there are interchangeable ampliers that could fit, and also blowers that can work as well.

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VStar650CL
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby VStar650CL » Sat May 01, 2021 1:45 pm

Dxta wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 1:09 pm
My AC amplier, when I opened it open, I was it was blown around the mosfets or so. That means I got to replace the amplifier, and that's why asking if there are interchangeable ampliers that could fit, and also blowers that can work as well.
There are no crosses, but there is a superseding p/n, 27760-CR95A. That's discontinued too, but there's a used one on eBay with 30-day returns if it doesn't work, $61.50 + $10 shipping:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154234946126?e ... SwwVZf0BVa

If your old one has legible numbers on the blown components, I might be able to obtain them and rework it for you.

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:42 am

Today, I replaced the camshaft position sensor, and immediately I started the engine, that fluctuating or dancing RPM suddenly become stable. I have not test driven the car yet to know if it's stall on me like it did before. But with this few test, I know it won't stall, because the RPM thingy got rectified.

I also decided to remove the valve body from the transmission today, inorder to troubleshoot the only remaining code I got now:P1772 low coast brake.

Does the TCM of this transmission, embedded insider the valve body as it's removed, just like you've it in Pathfinders, g35, etc?

There's like a small bunch of stuff like an ECU or harness at the side of the valve body removed. Might need to take some pictures and post here.

Has anyone here removed the valve body of an M45 or q45 2003/4 before?

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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:16 pm

Dxta wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:48 am
Does the TCM of this transmission, embedded insider the valve body as it's removed, just like you've it in Pathfinders, g35, etc?

There's like a small bunch of stuff like an ECU or harness at the side of the valve body removed. Might need to take some pictures and post here.
Yes, your TCM is integral with the Valve Body.

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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:22 pm

The thing to note about my car is that the TCM is external, and not internal like other models.

After removing the valve body, and testing the resistance of the low coast brake solenoid, the result showed it was out of range of the specs. For my car, the range should be between 20-40ohms. But measuring it, it was 41ohms, which was out of range.

Instead of replacing an entire valve body, I opted to replace the faulty solenoid. Tested the vehicle already, and there was no flare-ups.

Thanks

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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:31 am

Finally!!! I have solved this stalling problem. All along, i was busy replacing the wrong sensor.
The part guys where i got the new Infiniti crankshaft sensor from, had new sensors, but i think, the sensor itself in the pack, was for a different infiniti vehicle. I had to spend enormous time researching the exact fit for the car, before I came across what the differences were, from the camshaft and crank sensors.
Huge differences, if one isn't careful.
Thanks everyone.

PS: i had checked the crankshaft sensor wiring diagram severally for potential reasons for the P0335 code, and it checked fine.

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VStar650CL
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby VStar650CL » Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:13 am

Dxta wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:31 am
Finally!!! I have solved this stalling problem. All along, i was busy replacing the wrong sensor.
The part guys where i got the new Infiniti crankshaft sensor from, had new sensors, but i think, the sensor itself in the pack, was for a different infiniti vehicle. I had to spend enormous time researching the exact fit for the car, before I came across what the differences were, from the camshaft and crank sensors.
Huge differences, if one isn't careful.
Thanks everyone.

PS: i had checked the crankshaft sensor wiring diagram severally for potential reasons for the P0335 code, and it checked fine.
Glad you got it straightened away! Cam and crank sensors are more complex than people credit, because there are three different factors that influence them, electrical (the sensor supply and strength and voltage of the pullup resistor), magnetic (the reluctance of the wheel and sensitivity and topology of the Hall element), and mechanical (the gap between the sensor and reluctor wheel and the speed of the wheel). Analysis of all three goes into the OE selection of sensor characteristics. So even parts that seem identical in every way can be non- or mal-functional if they aren't quite what the OE engineers specified. That's why people's luck with cheap aftermarket CMP's and CKP's is so hit-and-miss. Even with OE parts, the occasional parts mixup is almost guaranteed to make everyone involved pull their hair out. :wtf2:

Dxta
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Re: M45 keeps stalling when driving

Postby Dxta » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:51 am

@Vstar. I just wished the Nissan engineers, made such sensors easier or so, like what you have with Toyotas.


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