2002 q45 shaking/shudder at 62-70 mph.

[Jason B]

My dealer has had my car over a week and it still shakes at 62-70. The wheel doesn't shake, the car does. The rotors are new and fine. You can feel it in the drivers seat in your legs especially. It's not very bad, but it shouldn't shake at all. There is an ITB/TSB for this, and they say they did it all, and replaced two front tires this time.

They have already replaced the tires AND rims before in the past. This problem has been there from day one and they are telling me it's a known problem with the new Q. Unaccpetable!!!

More info:

Service Bulletin Number: ITB01034 Date of Bulletin: 06/01 Component: SUSPENSION Summary: CUSTOMERS MAY COMPLAIN OF STEERING/BODY VIBRATION AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS.

ITB/TSB HERE ON THIS HERE, click

Part II:

When I leave my keys in the car with the car off, the car sometimes locks itself, or will lock every door but the passenger door. They can't find the problem with this either since day one. Say you go to a friend's house, turn you car off, buy leave the keys in ignition... This is when it happens.

Any advice? They cannot fix the car and I told them I'm not taking ot back until they do.

[AZhitman]

Perhaps you should mention to them that you're posting the outcome on an international Nissan/Infiniti website that sees 8 million hits monthly....

Would you like me to call my service manager at Scottsdale and see if he's ever heard that it's a "known" problem?

[Jason B]

That would be nice of you.

[911/Q45]

You're a good man Jason, most guys that buy an expensive new car would endure being boiled in oil before they would admit troubles like this publicly.

[Q45tech]

16 pounds of radial force is excessive: a good tire and wheel combo should be able to reach 5 pounds..............to me the spec [in TSB] is way to broad!

[AZhitman]

That would be nice of you.

Eric at Scottsdale is researching it. He says they have had a few 02's come back with problems but they ALL had chromed factory (or aftermarket) rims. The tires were spinning on the rims and throwing off the balance. They had to "buy-back" a couple sets of chromed factory rims for that reason.

Interestingly, NO problems with M45's, even with chromed rims...

He's pulling the TSB and has a few techs in his office discussing it. I'll post his reply.

[greg_atlanta]

Part II: When I leave my keys in the car with the car off, the car sometimes locks itself, or will lock every door but the passenger door. They can't find the problem with this either since day one. Say you go to a friend's house, turn you car off, buy leave the keys in ignition... This is when it happens.

I would guess the power lock relay needs to be replaced. The power locks on my '92 Q don't work at all from time to time (maybe 2-3 times a month). Replacing the relay should fix it, but I'm going to bother unless it gets worse. (I think it's buried under center console somewhere... part is $25).

Anything that happens sporadically and it electronics-related is usually a relay failing periodically (common problem on J30s).

As for the vibrations... first of all, I'm impressed how well written the TSB is, esp. the part about customers demanding larger wheels & lower profile tires but not fully aware of the consequences.

Do the vibrations improve after 10-15 minute of highway driving? A lot of tires feel funky when they're cold, esp. if weather is also cold (summer tires are bad about this, some high-performance all-season tires are also bad).

I get very annoyed with my car in winter since I have a 10 mile drive home on interstate at midnight with cold tires....

[szh]

A funny thing: On my wife's Acura 2.2CL, there is a "feature". If you use the remote fob to unlock the locked car, then don't actually pull the door open, it relocks itself after some short period of time - about 2 minutes. I assume that this was some sort of alarm/remote/protection fail-safe, but it is very disconcerting when not anticipated!

My wife accused me of locking her car on her after she unlocked it. And then she couldn't find her remote and could not take our son to school and I had gone to work. I was able to prove my point to her after she calmed down. I locked and unlocked her car with the remote, then placed both fobs (hers and mine) on the hood while we both stood there without touching anything, and we heard the car relock itself!

Z

[Jason B]

Do the vibrations improve after 10-15 minute of highway driving? A lot of tires feel funky when they're cold, esp. if weather is also cold (summer tires are bad about this, some high-performance all-season tires are also bad).

No, they are there all the time at that speed.

[Jason B]

I locked and unlocked her car with the remote, then placed both fobs (hers and mine) on the hood while we both stood there without touching anything, and we heard the car relock itself!

Z

Yes, a lot of new cars do that. The Q45 will do that and it's normal. That is, if you have the keys in your hand and unlock the car, but never get in it, in a few minutes it will relock.

Now, MY PROBLEM IS DIFFERENT.

Say I come home and pull in the garage. I turn off the car, but leave KEYS IN IGNITION. WHen I come back, sometimes the WHOLE car is locked, or every door is locked except the passenger door or another door is. This makes no sense since you can't electronically lock/unlock an idividual door like that. Sometimes you will be locked OUT with your keys in the ignition!

greg_atlanta, I will metioned relay to them.

Thanks everyone.

[firstq]

Damn - may be it is a Japanese thing that one should enjoy the vibes in your seat...something that really should be in a luxury car, and we here are trying to solve this as an issue from day 1?

May be it aint so bad that my 13 year old is still shaking the booty...

[Jason B]

bump

[Q451990]

Say I come home and pull in the garage. I turn off the car, but leave KEYS IN IGNITION. WHen I come back, sometimes the WHOLE car is locked, or every door is locked except the passenger door or another door is.

The lock relay is getting a ground pulse from somewhere...

Any chance the ignition switch isn't properly sensing that the key is in there, and then trying to "auto lock" the doors like you described as normal without keys? When it autolocks, do all of the doors lock?

I'd recommend trying to unplug different control modules (especially the anti-theft) - assuming the car is set up anything like the old Qs and everything isn't done by fiber-optic modules from a mother brain disgrontificator or something! You need a good trouble-shooter and they're hard to find, especially on electrical problems.

Maybe the dealership can call in one of the "roving experts?"

Heath

[szh]

Yes, a lot of new cars do that. The Q45 will do that and it's normal. That is, if you have the keys in your hand and unlock the car, but never get in it, in a few minutes it will relock.

Now, MY PROBLEM IS DIFFERENT.

Oops, sorry! I did not mean to imply in my post that you were experiencing the same "problem" as my wife's car. Clearly, you were/are seeing something entirely different. My story was just about something I had not expected.

Hope you get your difficulty taken care of!

Z

[Jason B]

The lock relay is getting a ground pulse from somewhere...

Any chance the ignition switch isn't properly sensing that the key is in there, and then trying to "auto lock" the doors like you described as normal without keys? When it autolocks, do all of the doors lock?

I'd recommend trying to unplug different control modules (especially the anti-theft) - assuming the car is set up anything like the old Qs and everything isn't done by fiber-optic modules from a mother brain disgrontificator or something! You need a good trouble-shooter and they're hard to find, especially on electrical problems.

Maybe the dealership can call in one of the "roving experts?"

Heath

Thanks, I will pass this on. From what they last told me, they can replace the door lock module since they can't replicate the problem, go figure.

[Jason B]

UPDATE:

As I said above, it's had the shake from day one, but was never enough to make me want to get it fixed. Now it seems worse. The dealer has had the car for over 3 weeks now. I got an update the other day that the new tires they got in failed the road foce. These must be crappy tires. I swear they can't make them round, unless they are making excuses. I had 4 new tires put on before, and they ended up getting 8, since half of them were out of spec on the road force machine. They want to make sure the new tires are perfect.

[Q45tech]

A problem since day one, many times the wheels are out of spec [or go out of spec] and the combination can't get to spec.. Plus the factory spec is too high considering the low spring rate.

Michelin has a running battle because many of the returned tires are fine in their testing [on a precision wheel].

Have the wheels tested without tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! using a 0.0001" dial indicator..........same with wheel hubs.

Such is the life of a non forged 18" wheel.

[Jason B]

That will go noted Q45tech!

1) Thanks again everyone. I finally got the car back yesterday. The shake seems to be gone. I went for a quick drive and couldn't detect it, but will be going out when I can really test it on the highway again soon.

They put 4 new tires on, and went through about 12 new ones until they found 4 that went through and passed the road force test! This took a while since they had to take the rims off the car and bring them to a tire shop that had the Hunter road force machine - my dealer just has a regular standard balancing machine.

I have a strong feeling that the tires are just poorly/inconsistently made and quality control is falling at Michelin. The bill was $1,100. Tires were $279 each, plus all the road force work, but all covered under warranty at no cost to me.

2) The transmission/ecu upgrade is amazing! The car feels so much quicker! It takes off instantly. Also, say at 30mph when you mash it, it really goes now and grabs the road behind you pulling you back. The shifting is much smoother and crisper than before and it's MUCH more fun to drive. It feels like it was given steroids. I'm a very anal person with my vehicles and notice everything and this made a big change to me. The new TCM/ECU work ran about $1,200, but again, under warranty since it’s an ITB/TSB!

[Q451990]

They put 4 new tires on, and went through about 12 new ones until they found 4 that went through and passed the road force test! This took a while since they had to take the rims off the car and bring them to a tire shop that had the Hunter road force machine - my dealer just has a regular standard balancing machine.

I thought all Infiniti Dealers were required to have the GSP9700! In any case, I hope the didn't use your rims for all of the tests - all of that lubricant that they use to install the tires could really build up and cause a problem with the tires rotating on the rims... You may need a follow-up balance in a couple thousand miles.

Heath

[maxnix]

Index the tires on the rims now, Jason.