Hi,I've owned it for a few months and observed rathar high oil consumption - a quarter or more every 1000 miles (57k mileage). When I was looking for this car I saw another with a brand new engine, replaced by dealer under warranty due to a high oil consumption (unfortunately I did not ask how high it was). The car is on mineral oil (dealer recommendation), used in CA. No oil leaks.
What is the oil consumption you guys consider normal? Will it keep on increasing? Does it make the smog check difficult to pass? Is it a known problem with those engines and what do the dealers do about it (mine is still on warranty - till 60k).thanks
2002 Q45 Oil Consumption
Sounds a bit high, but not terrible. The problem is that there's probably no way to prove the car needs any warranty service. The manual doesn't have a maximum specification for oil consumption. Not sure if there would be any recourse even if it was belching smoke and failing smog, though the dealership might fix it on principle (the Q with the new engine). If all the rings are worn, the vehicle might (unlikely) fail a compression test, for which specs are listed. Checking it would be on your nickel though.It amazes me cars burn as little oil as they do. The pistons moving up and down hundreds and thousands of times per minute...maybe 10 million times between oil changes.
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Re: (DAEDALUS)
A quart in 3,750 miles would be excellant for a 2002 Q engine design.Think they consider a quart per 1,000 miles to be acceptable on the newer 3.5 V6.
When you design for extreme power per cubic inch..........oil ring tension is the first thing you reduce, as this is the bulk of the friction in an engine! [Ring sealing via tension]. Everyone demands more power but they don't realize the side effects.
The 22% [14% for torque] bump up in HP for the same displacement [278 vs 340] for the same 4.5 liters.........what's 20-100 EXTRA quarts of oil per 70,000 miles.
Be sure to check the newer design every week and add oil as needed.
Long ago Toyota announced they did not intend to get in a radical HP war with Infiniti for this very reason..........oil consumption.
The easiest way to increase power is to reduce friction.........looser bearing/ring tolerances.......just as American designs have used for 40 years.
We all got spoiled on 90's Nissans which were great compromises.
When you design for extreme power per cubic inch..........oil ring tension is the first thing you reduce, as this is the bulk of the friction in an engine! [Ring sealing via tension]. Everyone demands more power but they don't realize the side effects.
The 22% [14% for torque] bump up in HP for the same displacement [278 vs 340] for the same 4.5 liters.........what's 20-100 EXTRA quarts of oil per 70,000 miles.
Be sure to check the newer design every week and add oil as needed.
Long ago Toyota announced they did not intend to get in a radical HP war with Infiniti for this very reason..........oil consumption.
The easiest way to increase power is to reduce friction.........looser bearing/ring tolerances.......just as American designs have used for 40 years.
We all got spoiled on 90's Nissans which were great compromises.
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elwesso
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2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
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Re: (Q45tech)
So is it safe to say that the new Q45 engine wont last as long due to the looser tolerances?? It should become a smoker sooner, and we may not see 250k+ out of them? Even with good OCI's?Q45tech wrote:A quart in 3,750 miles would be excellant for a 2002 Q engine design.Think they consider a quart per 1,000 miles to be acceptable on the newer 3.5 V6.
When you design for extreme power per cubic inch..........oil ring tension is the first thing you reduce, as this is the bulk of the friction in an engine! [Ring sealing via tension]. Everyone demands more power but they don't realize the side effects.
The 22% [14% for torque] bump up in HP for the same displacement [278 vs 340] for the same 4.5 liters.........what's 20-100 EXTRA quarts of oil per 70,000 miles.
Be sure to check the newer design every week and add oil as needed.
Long ago Toyota announced they did not intend to get in a radical HP war with Infiniti for this very reason..........oil consumption.
The easiest way to increase power is to reduce friction.........looser bearing/ring tolerances.......just as American designs have used for 40 years.
We all got spoiled on 90's Nissans which were great compromises.
Re: (pito11213)
These arent problems but design choices.Consumers want power the design chopices you need to mkake in order to have that w/o upping displacement excessivly result in extra oil consumption.pito11213 wrote:If that is the case then what the hell is going on at Infiniti. As much as these cars cost new I dont want to have any problems.
One thin I am unclearwith the original post is is it a quarter of a quart or a quart every 1000 miles?
A quarter ofg a quart is just fine a quart is the high limit thats considered acceptable.
Original poster:about the emsssions question:No it wont introduce problems with passing emissions.
Fred...
Well I understand that but if that is the case why not just up the motor up to a 5.0. Is there a downside to this. I just hate the fact that I have to be under my hood checking my oil level on my 2002 Q. (Well not me literally but you know what I mean.) I mean I do understand that 340HP is alot of power from generally the same size motor but come on.
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elwesso
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Re: (pito11213)
Because more displacement with the same friction = less gas mileage..
Exactly why the 02s can get 24ish MPG highway on a car with more HP and probably a little heavier....
The northstar in the cadillacs consider 1qt/1000 mi acceptable..... I think that even in the VH some oil consumption is normal... Especially if you use thinner oils...
Exactly why the 02s can get 24ish MPG highway on a car with more HP and probably a little heavier....
The northstar in the cadillacs consider 1qt/1000 mi acceptable..... I think that even in the VH some oil consumption is normal... Especially if you use thinner oils...
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szh
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Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO! - Location: San Jose, CA
On my 2003 M45, with essentially the same engine, I had thought that I was not consuming any oil. But with more careful monitoring, and measuring consistently on the same level ground, I seem to be going through about 1/4 quart every 3750 miles. This seems very good to me, after reading all the above!
Maybe my careful regimen in the early few changes (very often oil changes), plus proper seating of the rings with reasonably hard driving, seems to have helped!
Hopefully, this means that my engine will last a good long time! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Z
Maybe my careful regimen in the early few changes (very often oil changes), plus proper seating of the rings with reasonably hard driving, seems to have helped!
Hopefully, this means that my engine will last a good long time! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Z
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metaverse3
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Re: 2002 Q45 Oil Consumption (carnut)
How about you try to run synthetic blend for a bit..see if that does anything. Castrol syntec is one oil to consider.. If that makes a change..move to full synthetic.. As silly as this might sound, make sure you're not dripping oil on the ground.. I had an uncle with an altima that had a oil pan leak not noticed since it was parked over a sewer grate !! Hopefully it is not serous..
Re: 2002 Q45 Oil Consumption (metaverse3)
Thanks to all who replied. I meant it takes a quart (1qt = 946 ml) per 1000 miles, but it sounds like it still should be acceptable (even though szhosain's car takes only 1/4 of it per 3750 miles - congrats!!!). It's still a bit of a pain to keep on checking the oil in an almost new car - apart from oil-burner RX7 and a 911 none of my previous cars were that bad (British and Italian ones were dumping too much oil on the ground to measure the consumption, so I don't use them for comparison :-)
The more HP from less friction = more oil consumtpion makes sense.
For the synthetic switch I'm still not convinced, if the dealer is using mineral in the car and if I do frequent (3500 miles) oil changes - why bother with the switching?
Speaking of mpg - 24 is something I've never seen - the best was 22mpg at around steady 80mph LA->SF (perhaps it would do 24 at 60mph). In normal driving I get 18, when my right foot is a bit heavier 17.
Anyway, if someone learns about a precedence of a dealer doing something about it - please let me know, otherwise I'll just keep on adding oil :-)
thanks
The more HP from less friction = more oil consumtpion makes sense.
For the synthetic switch I'm still not convinced, if the dealer is using mineral in the car and if I do frequent (3500 miles) oil changes - why bother with the switching?
Speaking of mpg - 24 is something I've never seen - the best was 22mpg at around steady 80mph LA->SF (perhaps it would do 24 at 60mph). In normal driving I get 18, when my right foot is a bit heavier 17.
Anyway, if someone learns about a precedence of a dealer doing something about it - please let me know, otherwise I'll just keep on adding oil :-)
thanks
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sijoko
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Since the car was used, you have no idea how the engine was broken in.
From what I have read so far, the first few hundred miles are the most important in the engine break-in process. Some people have even suggested that the first quarter mile is the most important.
If your car is still eligible for the Infiniti extended warranty, I suggest you purchase it.
Once the warranty is up, the chances of you getting the engine replaced due to high oil consumption is very limited.
I would also suggest that you experiment with different oil viscosities to see if that has any effect.
-sijoko
From what I have read so far, the first few hundred miles are the most important in the engine break-in process. Some people have even suggested that the first quarter mile is the most important.
If your car is still eligible for the Infiniti extended warranty, I suggest you purchase it.
Once the warranty is up, the chances of you getting the engine replaced due to high oil consumption is very limited.
I would also suggest that you experiment with different oil viscosities to see if that has any effect.
-sijoko
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Re: (sijoko)
There is an ideal size for an engine bore/stroke that is ~~ 500 cc per cylinder and 600 cc at the upper end so a V8 is 4.0-4.5/4.6------4.7/4.8 liters at the extreme. You must balance the bore vs stroke vs useful rpm.
The 4.0 liter Lexus was an extremely reliable simple unstressed V8 which could easily go 400,000 miles with timing belt, plug, plug wire and oil and filters changes and egr and plenum cleaning.
The 4.5Q was higher stressed to deliver higher useful rpm [6300 vs 6900 rpm redline] and more real unpublished torque [5%] more per cc. It was doubtful that Lexus met published HP and torque specs except over very NARROW rpm ranges in 90-95 LS400..........thus the 1.0 second differences in acceleration.....0>60 as the gearing was the same more or less cruise highway rpm.
US designs are bigger but they don't last as long due to ring diameter and friction they must wear rings faster or have looser tolerances to begin with, .......5.65 Chevy V8 or 5.7 semi Hemi [in name olny]
The newer 5.6 liter Nissans are more American like except for the 32 valve heads.........looser bearing and ring fit yields more oil burning/faster.
Even BMW has abandoned 5.0 liter V8 going to V10 to accomplish their goals while MB seems to be able to make it work since 1990.
I think buyers of newer BIG V8's [>4.6 liters] will be in for an unpleasant surprise at higher mileage............no more 300,000 mile engines in extremes of daily driving. But new buyers don't care as the MAJORITY sell the car before 100,000 miles..........the used market takes a while to react and understand long term reliability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most normal places [except US/Canada] tax based on displacement and a 4.0 liter engine is BIG and expensive to pay for each year. Japan let you slide some what at 4,499.9999 cc. But a 3.999 liter is almost $1000 less per year to pay taxes on.
France, UK, Germany, and Italy are more extreme making only 3.499 liters [usually V6] affordable by the masses. A big MB limo in France might have 3.2 liter engine thus turbos and the decreased reliability unless diesels!
Maybe we need a displacement tax in US to force us to be more efficient?
The gas guzzler tax is not working but an annual tax would, just as long as it doesn't start till 4.5 liters or larger. Love my 4494 cc engine.
Thiswill never happen because of GM/Ford/Chrysler and now the Japanes are getting into the act to compete by making US only engines > 4.5 liters for our market.............don't expect to find JDM take out engines in the bigger size as they don't won't exist.......made for export only!
The 4.0 liter Lexus was an extremely reliable simple unstressed V8 which could easily go 400,000 miles with timing belt, plug, plug wire and oil and filters changes and egr and plenum cleaning.
The 4.5Q was higher stressed to deliver higher useful rpm [6300 vs 6900 rpm redline] and more real unpublished torque [5%] more per cc. It was doubtful that Lexus met published HP and torque specs except over very NARROW rpm ranges in 90-95 LS400..........thus the 1.0 second differences in acceleration.....0>60 as the gearing was the same more or less cruise highway rpm.
US designs are bigger but they don't last as long due to ring diameter and friction they must wear rings faster or have looser tolerances to begin with, .......5.65 Chevy V8 or 5.7 semi Hemi [in name olny]
The newer 5.6 liter Nissans are more American like except for the 32 valve heads.........looser bearing and ring fit yields more oil burning/faster.
Even BMW has abandoned 5.0 liter V8 going to V10 to accomplish their goals while MB seems to be able to make it work since 1990.
I think buyers of newer BIG V8's [>4.6 liters] will be in for an unpleasant surprise at higher mileage............no more 300,000 mile engines in extremes of daily driving. But new buyers don't care as the MAJORITY sell the car before 100,000 miles..........the used market takes a while to react and understand long term reliability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most normal places [except US/Canada] tax based on displacement and a 4.0 liter engine is BIG and expensive to pay for each year. Japan let you slide some what at 4,499.9999 cc. But a 3.999 liter is almost $1000 less per year to pay taxes on.
France, UK, Germany, and Italy are more extreme making only 3.499 liters [usually V6] affordable by the masses. A big MB limo in France might have 3.2 liter engine thus turbos and the decreased reliability unless diesels!
Maybe we need a displacement tax in US to force us to be more efficient?
The gas guzzler tax is not working but an annual tax would, just as long as it doesn't start till 4.5 liters or larger. Love my 4494 cc engine.
Thiswill never happen because of GM/Ford/Chrysler and now the Japanes are getting into the act to compete by making US only engines > 4.5 liters for our market.............don't expect to find JDM take out engines in the bigger size as they don't won't exist.......made for export only!