2001 QX4 with Loose Lug Nuts! HELP!!!

[stillad]

VEHICLE: 2001 Infinity QX4

BACKGROUND: Had brakes replaced about 5 weeks ago. Reputable shop. Never had one issue with the place. 2 weeks later started hearing a "whom whom whom" noise while driving (sounded like a unbalance or misshapen tire). Sound seemed to be coming from the front driver side. Frequency of the sound would increase with speed. Noise would go away when braking. Also had some vibration (shimmy) in the steering wheel. Tires were less then 6 months old so I figured I must be a bad wheel bearing. Vibration got progressively worse over the next 5 days to where I no longer felt safe driving the car . Had it towed to the same shop. Next day the owner calls me and asks if I've had any of the tires off since he worked on it. I told him no. He tells me that it wasn't the wheel bearing, that the lugs on the front driver-side where extremely loose. He said he must not have tightened them well enough and apologized profusely and paid me back for the towing cost. Said he checked all four tires and that I was good to go. Picked up the car and no vibs so I'm thinking I'm good again. Honest mistake. No blood no foul.

NEW ISSUE: So this morning (about 3 weeks later) my wife calls (it's her car). Says the noise and vibration has started up again. I drive over to check it out. Sure enough, the lugs on the front driver side wheel are loose again. Tightened the bejezzus outta them and drove the car around to make sure that took care of it. It did (temporarily at least).

MY TAKE: So i've read a fair amount in this forum about deathsway on these cars. While i've definitely noticed some vibration at higher speeds (<50mpg) it's more of a low jitter felt so I'm not sure if that's it or not. Plus this was both before I had the brakes replaced and after the first loose lug fix so it wasn't something that jumped out at me. I thought it was semi-normal for all cars to have a bit of vib at higher speeds (i'm an engineer and we discussed this phenomenon in one of my design classes). Even if it is the deathsway, how could that be transferring enough force to back the lugs off? And why only on the front driver side? And most importantly, what the hell do i do about it?

PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE OUT WHAT COULD BE CAUSING THIS!!! THANKS!!!

[fueler]

death sway has to do with the rear axle bushings breaking, making a slow side-to-side sway at freeway speed. unrelated to your front wheel problem.


Do you have stock or aftermarket wheels? Different wheels use different styles of lug nuts. Put the wrong lug nuts (acorn vs conical) and you could have this problem...

also, are you torquing the lug nuts to at least 85 ft/lbs ? In a star pattern? (not just simply one lug to the next one to the next one in a circle - thats the wrong way to do it)

[stillad]

Q1: Do you have stock or aftermarket wheels? Different wheels use different styles of lug nuts. Put the wrong lug nuts (acorn vs conical) and you could have this problem...

A1: They are the original wheels and have the original lugs on them. One lug on the front driver side is different now, due to being damaged when backing off the first time. Everything else is OEM stock.


Q2: also, are you torquing the lug nuts to at least 85 ft/lbs ? In a star pattern? (not just simply one lug to the next one to the next one in a circle - thats the wrong way to do it)

A2: I wasn't using a torque wrench when i tightened them back up but I can tell you that i'm a big guy and was putting the beef on it! WRT the star pattern... Yes. It's a 6-lug wheel so it's a modified star pattern, but yes. I'm not just going around in a circle like a moron. LOL.

[ARKQX33V6]

The guys are asking the correct questions! What about someone screwing around in your hood? Torque the wheel nuts to an even 100 ft lbs and then mark the nut to wheel with a permanent marker. Then you will be able to see if the nuts backs off.

At 85-100 foot-pounds a nut would need 100 foot pound counter clockwise force, yet alone 6 nuts acting this way.

You must torque the nuts properly and with a positive torque wrench, a guess is not close unless you do this 10x a day every day. Make sure the threads are clean and both nut and stud have all the threads equal no missing parts and no grease, no messed up threads. Lubrication will change the torque effort.

Also before doing anything remove both front wheels visually inspect the hardware especially the studs and their mountings, look for cracked plate, loose stud mounts then test with a straight edge the mounting plate for uneven warped and hot blue spots.

Check your brakes for trueness and run out, when wheels mounted test the wheel run out, since this is happening too often it's either some thing on the car or some one acting on the car.

Test the preload rotation of the front wheels, they should not spin very easily when turned, it should take some effort. With the wheels up check the wheel horizontally and top and bottom for play, by hand there should be zero.

[alexf20c]

Test the preload rotation of the front wheels, they should not spin very easily when turned, it should take some effort. With the wheels up check the wheel horizontally and top and bottom for play, by hand there should be zero.

the front wheels SHOULD spin easily. there SHOULD be play. by design, a tapered roller bearing (as used in the front hub) needs a certain amount of play to function properly. with the weight off the wheel/tire, there should be noticeable play as you push/pull the tire on top/bottom or left/right.


stillad, what are you using to tighten the lug nuts? a short wrench will make it very difficult to put 100lb-ft on the lug nut. it may feel like you're really cranking down on them, when actually you're not.

[ARKQX33V6]

Test the preload rotation of the front wheels, they should not spin very easily when turned, it should take some effort. With the wheels up check the wheel horizontally and top and bottom for play, by hand there should be zero.

the front wheels SHOULD spin easily. there SHOULD be play. by design, a tapered roller bearing (as used in the front hub) needs a certain amount of play to function properly. with the weight off the wheel/tire, there should be noticeable play as you push/pull the tire on top/bottom or left/right.


stillad, what are you using to tighten the lug nuts? a short wrench will make it very difficult to put 100lb-ft on the lug nut. it may feel like you're really cranking down on them, when actually you're not.

If this is about a 4 x 4 the front wheels should not spin freely! Only if the wheels are segregated by locking hubs will the wheels spin freely as in a 2 WD vehicle

[alexf20c]

whatever dude, your intentions are good, but your information is almost always wrong. neither you nor i know if their QX4 is a 4x2 or 4x4. regardless, you are WRONG about the front wheel bearings. that, and you over-analyze everything.

no matter how out-of-round the hub or rotor or tire or whatever, properly torqued lug nuts will not loosen - assuming the studs and lugs are in good working condition.

[ml21]

yea i totally agree with u alexf20c why is bearing preload even being brought up with lug nuts. ARKQX33V6 i know your trying to help out but your information is really irrevelant because no matter how wobbly your hub bearing is the lug nuts actully studs i should say are apart of the integral design of the hub so they would follow each other not work against one another.

[K03sport]

I would also inspect the nut mounting seat on the wheels to make sure they are still uniform. I would also make sure each lug hole is round and not ovaled due to driving around on loose lug nuts.

If it is just that one wheel, try that wheel on another location and see if the problem remains with that wheel or if the problem occurs again on the front with the newly relocated wheel.

What happens if you try using the spare in the location of the lossening lug nuts?

[WPGQX4]

K03sport is on the right track. I'll put my 2 cents in. I've worked in a tire shop for 13 years now. First torque should be 108 ft/lbs. Why? Because every torque wrench is going to give you a bit different torque. Max torque is 108 on Pathys and Q's. If you dial in the max and the wrench is out of calibration you have some insurance on not under torquing it.

As for the wheel off. Did the brake shop put anti seize on the studs and nuts? You can not torque a wheel properly with that garbage on your studs. Wheel offs are greatly increased with it on the studs. And I can't count the number of times we find it on vehicles and ask if they had just had the brakes done, with their answer being yes.

You really need to inspect all studs and nuts yourself to make sure they are clean and dry. Nuts don't just back them selves off. If they are clean and dry, inspect the center hub to see if there is any corrosion build up. If there is, use a wire brush and clean it ALL off. Particles in the mating surface can cause wheel off a swell.