2001 Infiniti QX4 with SERIOUS frame rot

[gostauffergo]

4 years ago a bought a solid 2001 Infiniti QX4. It had 115k miles, it now has 145k. There's been typical repairs throughout the years, nothing major. Car is great inside and out, runs and looks great.

I took it in to get some work done two months ago. Mechanic noted some serious rust on the frame. I was alarmed but busy, so I ended up bringing it back two months later so he could take a closer look. In just two months it got much much worse, and the frame is in a dangerous state now. He says it would cost about $2k to fix properly with new metal.

I researched the issue and found out about the strut mount recall. So I took it to the dealer and the second they looked at it, they said it was a frame rust issue and wouldn't be included in the recall. They also said it would cost about $2k to fix. So they took the car, did the rust coating (the strut mounts, wheel wells were fine) and sent me on my way.

Has anyone successfully got Infiniti/Nissan to actually correct a frame rust issue like this before? I know the Infinitis and Pathfinders have a history of the frames rusting, but this starts pretty much exactly where you typically see the wheel wells rotting out, which is usually included in the recall. It seems to be an effect of the strut mount issue.

Thoughts? I don't know what to do next or who to appeal to.

[Hawairish]

Yes, that is very serious rot...to the point it should not be driven until fixed. Those are structural points for the transmission (crossmember) and subframe (suspension, steering, drivetrain). That cover in the area also shields your brake and fuel lines. As they weaken, they put additional stresses elsewhere on the chassis.

$2K to fix would be a deal. I would not be surprised if that number soared once actual work began, unfortunately. The corner of the subframe looks questionable, and removal of the subframe (and all components) would be necessary to properly repair the area. If the subframe is damaged, they'd need to transfer everything off it to a new (used) assembly, or replace the entire complete subframe with everything already installed on it. That's a lot of shop-hours and/or replacement parts.

The nature of that rust does seem suspicious, to be honest, compared to the rest of the vehicle. The chassis metal and the cover have different protective coats on them, the cover itself being fully able to drain water. The chassis has holes for drainage, and perhaps those holes were blocked. But, not sure it explains why the cover is so terribly rusted. I would expect a different degree of rust (that cover isn't thin metal, either). It seems possible that some chemical saturated the area and either caused/promoted corrosion, or prevented water from repelling properly (but that would be surface rusted). Is the water we see in the pics because it was recently hosed down?

[gostauffergo]

I think the water in the pics is from the air conditioning.

So it sounds like you think the rot has nothing to do with the strut mount problem? Are you aware of Infiniti/Nissan repairing any frames in similar situations? I don't possess the slightest idea whether the dealership is completely correct or they are just trying to duck me. Anything I know about these cars, I just learned through searching online the last couple days. So I'm lost.

[Hawairish]

Hmm...I think the condensation from mine is a little more under the engine and not on the chassis. I'll have to check that.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that area falls under the description of the strut tower recall, and I think the dealership has answered faithfully. The recall notice is available online, and indicates two specific areas behind the strut subject to repair: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/ja ... 4-5867.pdf.

Sucks to say it, but I think you're on your own on this. From Nissan's perspective (or any other manufacturer, or dealership for that matter), it would be trivial to deny warranty repair due to a possible lack of preventative or scheduled maintenance. They can always make this argument for any repair outside of a warranty (and sometimes within). In your case, if you think that the AC condensation is the root of this problem, you might have a leg to stand on...but if you can't prove that you've made some effort before now to address it, then that leg is chopped.

I live in a low/no rust state, so I can't say I follow rust issues closely, though. If you live in a region of high rust, then it's probably nothing new to these guys. Somewhere in between...again, you might have a case. But, I wouldn't expect any dealership to sympathize or meet you halfway on the repair.

Wish I had better news for you.

[gostauffergo]

Yeah I am in CT. 2 out of the last 3 winters were absolute beasts.

One of the guys at the dealer said that when he was working in the Nissan section of the business, he repaired tons of Pathfinders with essentially the same problem. He didn't say whether they were under any type of warranty or recall, it sounded like he was saying they weren't.

If I just craigslist the thing, does anyone got an idea what I could expect for a sales price with the damage unfixed?

I'm thinking its about a $4,000 truck with the frame fixed. Is there any type of market out there for people who buy and fix the frames or something? I could see a welding buying these up for $2k a piece, repairing them and then selling them off for $3,500-$4,000. If I could get $2k for it in it's current state, I would probably be happy.

[Hawairish]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was common. A guy on the pinned thread about the recall has similar (worse) issues in the areas where your rust is. 97-04-pathfinder-qx4-strut-housing-corr ... l#p6537301. But, it's just one of those things that if enough owners didn't come forward in a timely manner, then it probably couldn't warrant a recall.

Reselling it is a tough call. Many people flip vehicles...whether they do it correctly, I don't know.

The way I would look at it, if I were in your shoes, that is (and this mentality holds true for any major service repair), is how much return in Y years can I get from the vehicle for an $X repair bill? This is sort of an unwanted investment decision. If the vehicle is still running great, and you feel it can go a few more years, then repairing it might be worth it in the long run...then you drive it into the ground. Although it's worth little in the end, it's worth something until then. OTOH, if it's a lost cause for any reason, take what you can get for it, of course. But then, what's the real cost of a replacement vehicle? More payments, higher insurance (if newer), more debt? Really, all personal questions.

Reselling it may also be a liability if you're not upfront about it. If someone is interested and is aware of the problem and takes every means possible to protect themselves by getting a second opinion before purchase...then yeah, I'd feel fine about selling that. If it's some desperate mom or dad who just needs an affordable vehicle to get around in, I'd struggle ethically to make that sale. But you'll just never know the intended purpose.

[gostauffergo]

I get and agree with all that you're saying. I would definitely disclose all the problems if I resold it. That is definite.

I was thinking of trading it in also, for a new Ford Transit or Ram Promaster (it's a long story, but this is practically a work truck now). How much would a dealer beat me up on this thing if I'm trading it in for something $35-45k? Would they generally want to hand me scrap price on it or do you think they'd toss me $2k towards something new?

Kind of dumb questions probably but up to this point I always paid cash for my cars and then just ran them until they died and were worthless (10 years+). So it's new territory for me.

[Buzzman]

Any dealer taking your QX4 on a trade, in that condition, will either send it to auction, or junk it. probably the latter.
That means you'll be lucky to get $500 off of your new car purchase. It's basically worthless in that condition. Been there done that.
Sorry.

[Hawairish]

I tend to agree with Buzzman, though it depends on what promotions a dealership might have going (like guaranteed or minimum trade-ins). But, it's a game of adjustments...they might give more for a trade-in, but something else will get adjusted. Google "dealer four-square".

If you have a CarMax nearby, ask them to appraise it (free). They will offer to buy it, give you 7 days to think about it (before needing another appraisal), and without obligation to sell it or buy from them. The number they come up with will probably be indicative of any trade-in value you might get in lieu of a dealer promotion.

Carmax in general has been a positive experience for me. I've used them twice in the past 8 years (and traditional dealerships twice in same time). Traded in once, sold a car once. They are no-haggle dealership...price you see if price you pay. It's a good way to avoid the dealership experience altogether if it's new or daunting.

[gostauffergo]

I wouldn't be daunted by the negotiating. I flip houses for a living so I negotiate often and with very large stakes. It's just that I don't know what the usual markup is on vehicles like that and how much leeway the dealers actually have, so I would be flying a little blind, which is not a good place for me to start from.

[Hawairish]

Understandable. Yeah, it's hard to put a price on this situation. I'd probably just get some repair quotes first just to get an idea. If the truck lists for $X and repair is $Y, then it's dealer/auction value is likely 50%-75% of that difference (assuming they can justify any risk for profit). Obviously, any party interested in buying it for any reason will use the damage as an excuse to drop the price dramatically. Not much you can do about that except weigh the offers.