2000 Altima: Problem #1

[stocker2000]

I was going to cover these in one, long post, but decided that idvidual short posts were more courteous.

2000 Altima GXE with 58K miles on it. New noises appearing with surprising regularity. Here's number 1:

?Whirring, whining sound from passenger side when accelerating. Can't hear it within thecabin until 4000 RPM, when the noise abruptly steps up in volume. IF above 4000 RPM, noisedissappears when throttle is released (even if engine remains above 4000 RPM, and vehicleis coasting). Thought it might be something with intake/fuel injection since noise only appearedwhen depresing throttle. Tried to reproduce noise when at a stop, and revving the engine up past4000 RPM: no noise. So, what makes a high pitched whirring noise when the throttle is depressed and the vehicle ismoving, and gets appreciably louder at 4000 RPM?

[NISTECH]

if you put it in a forward gear and power brake it to about 1500 -2000 rpm does it make the noise?

[s13sr20chris]

i have heard many fwd ka24de's make that noise. i have no idea what it is though. sounds like a belt squeal?

[NISTECH]

Chris I was thinking it might be that center idler[you know the one..lol] But he says it only does it under load??? so it has confused me. I also thought motor mount might be vibrating againt the body on the mount in fornt of the pullies but in another thread he says he has replaced them???? lost here. If it where the idler or the P/S pump it would do it at a stand still too.

[s13sr20chris]

yeah, i have seen a lot of those and never figured it out. i have seen some that would do it off load but not all. on some of them i have thrown all the common parts at them to no avail.

[NISTECH]

I think I know what noise your thinking of that would be the one in the valve cover are near the chain. I have seen many people chase that noise with no success. I have never tried as I learned from others.

[s13sr20chris]

not the guide? hope im not learning of more impossible noises:)

[NISTECH]

The altima and the 240 both have what is reffered to as the mystry noise from the front of the timing chain area. It is usually more predomanant at idle. Its a type of squaking noise that lopes.

[s13sr20chris]

i am prob used to it as i dont recall listening to it.

[NISTECH]

As the squeek and rattle sheet defines it a "creak" [like on old wooden door on rusty hinges] Except this wooden door is being swung back and forth at a faster pace because some 5 yr old is doing it to annoy you.

[s13sr20chris]

yeah, thats about right.

[stocker2000]

if you put it in a forward gear and power brake it to about 1500 -2000 rpm does it make the noise?

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I don't know how to power brake with a manual?

Regardless, I can confirm that the noise is always present (I drove around with my windows down for awhile) regardless of RPM. Same observations: only makes noise when accelerating, but goes away once I stop accelerating (I am still holding throttle to maintain speed, though), and won't do it if I'm sitting still.

I would have thought that my observation that it increases in volume at 4000 RPM would have been telling, or at least relevant. Does the KA24 engine have some type of variable valve timing system (I didn't think it did). Does anything with the operation of the engine change at 4000 RPM?

Chris, it doesn't sound like a belt squeal. My only description would be that it sounds like gear whine (but I don't think that's it) combined with hissing gas (I've checked my exhaust for leaks too, none to be found)? Stumped here.

[NISTECH]

I would have guessed something with the final drive if it wasnt rpm dependant just speed dependant. the idler pulley we were talking about is the only thing I can think it might be.

[stocker2000]

I brought the car in to the dealership to have some maintenance performed, and to have them check into these 3 noises. And as I was expecting, they said they coudl not here any of them, except this whirring/whining/hissing at 4000 rpm. Their reply was that it's very likely just the belts whipping around. Um, ok...I mentioned the idler pulley, and that from what I had researched, it seemed to be a fairly common problem on these engines. The service manager gave me the most idiotic look, as if to say "listen here, sonny-boy, why don't you stop playing arm-chair mechanic and leave the diagnosing to us. We know Nissan's, and we ain't ever heard of this problem. So pay us for the oil change, and get out of here." (no, really, he said all that with just a look).

In any case, I wasn't with them when they went for the test drive, so I booked another appt. to go with them again. I know I'm not crazy, since all of these appeared within the last month or so, and they do exist. I know I'm paranoid, and picky, but I figure that when a new noise appears in a vehicle, it's very likely an indication of a problem. Am I wrong? I can appreciate that a mechanic doesn't have the luxury of driving a customers car everyday, and can't be intimately familiar with every nuance of a person's car. So when someone says "my car's making a noise", they may be at a loss to distinguish which noise. I tried to give them all the info I could on conditions, too. But noises, even consitent ones, are probably the hardest things to diagnose, I would imagine.

In any event, since this whirring/whining/hissing noise goes away when I ease up on the gas after accelerating (even though the engine is still past 4000 rpm), I was thinking if maybe it could be the injectors or something with the throttle body or related component. Any thoughts.

[s13sr20chris]

just hope it aint the intage manifold gasketit prob isnt of it would set a fuel sys lean codenissan injectors are really really loud, but thats the price you pay for having galley feed injectors. galley feed is better by the way.

[NISTECH]

Upon your return to the dealer ask them for a "Squeek and rattle sheet" to fill out for them. Do one per noise. People have no idea how helpful it is to have the customer fill that out before the technician gets in the car. It is a pretty detailed sheet you fill out describing the sound and when it most happens. I wish my advisors would use it more. That way my customers dont have to return to the dealer several times to find the noise.

[s13sr20chris]

yeah, if your dealer actually uses them...-its my turn to be the grouch-:)

[stocker2000]

That "squeek and rattle" sheet sounds like a great idea. I'll bring that up when I go in tomorrow.

Thanks guys.

BTW, what is galley feed? And what other kinds of injectors are there, and why is galley better? (I searched around, couldn't find any info, but I'm curious to know now).

[s13sr20chris]

galley feed is also known as side feed. the other common variety is top feed. galley feed is better because the injector sits in the fuel rail. this means that it is constantly cooled by the fuel. not just the fuel going through it but also the extra fuel on its way back to the tank. also has a much larger screen area to avoid getting clogged up.

[stocker2000]

Took in back in to the dealership today, and went for a ride with the mechanic. Great guy. He picked up on my other two noises in the other threads (suspension and clunk when taking off) right away. He figures it's a bad left control arm bushing causing both noises.

He showed it to me under the car. He said that the bushings are glued/bonded to the control arm itself, and that the bushing itself can't be replaced, but the whole control arm needs to be replaced.

Coupla question then:- is it true that you can't replace just that bushing? am I getting fleeced?- do I need to get an alignment done afterwards

As for the whining/hissing, he said not to worry about. He had some trouble hearing it, but once I pointed it out, he didn't think it was anything to worry about.

[NISTECH]

thats true control arm bushings are part of the control arm. you should get it aligned after wards.