2 quick questions

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Took the MG out on a 300-mile drive through some really twisty hills. Car ran like a champ. Perfect engine for this car. A couple of questions though.

1) I mismeasured my new dipstick and didn't realize I was low on oil. Oil pressure was great the whole time during normal driving, but I noticed that it would start to drop in oil pressure under hard acceleration and then go up immediately when I let off the accelerator. The lowest it ever got was down to 40 PSI, usually not lower than 50 though. I don't know when the problem started, though, and because my gauge is analog and old I didn't know if it was normal. It showed no other signs (no strange noises, etc.) and ran great. When I got home I added a quart of oil, drove it on the highway, and the problem was gone. Any possibility of long-term damage? I think I'm OK, but as people know, I have bad luck with engines sometimes.

2) I really beat the crap out of this engine and when I got home the oil was lower than I expected. Does going into high RPM burn oil or I have have a leak somewhere?

I love my CA. Running through those gears she never missed a beat.

Thanks.


User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

1- MAYBE you wore a little off the bearings, but I doubt it. You're not making gobs of power, so I wouldn't be super worried. If you want to be OCD cautious, change the oil. Otherwise, don't lose any sleep over it. It sounds like you just need to get the dipstick sorted out and then you'll be fine.

2- CA's are infamous for oil consumption in the higher revs. It has a poor PCV design and tends to allow the crankcase to build up pressure in the high revs/load range. When this happens, oil pool in the head, which then gets sucked out of the valve covers. I personally think the issue is with the tube under the intake manifold that goes up to the intake side valve cover. I think it's too convoluted and restrictive. I speculate that Nissan did this to keep the oil down in the block, but it ended up not allowing the gasses up to the head like it should. In my setup, I've removed that tube and used a large diameter tube, and then reduced that down and used an SR air/oil separator. Since doing that, I've had little oil make it out of the valve covers.

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

I now know how much oil I need. At least I caught it soon enough. I probably went into boost about 200 times, but all seems well...

I'm having trouble imagining what you did with the intake side PVC. Do you have a picture somewhere?

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

No pics. I only had it tha way for maybe 500 miles before the issue with the scored cylinder showed up and I had to tear the motor down again. The fitting I'm talking about is the one on top of the oil filter mount on the block. It comes out and it's a HUGE line, maybe an inch or more? But the hose that connects to it IMMEDIATELY reduced it down to about 5/8" IIRC. Then it goes over the knock sensor and then makes a sharp 90° turn up to the head, at the back of the intake manifold. People don't realize this, but (at least on mine) Nissan also shoved what looks like a plastic bristled pipe cleaner inside there too. Ultimately, it ends up near the back of the intake side valve cover. It's what the second fitting on the intake side valve cover connects to.

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

OK. Now I get it. So you just used 1" tubing down to that part above the oil filter?

User avatar
Izento
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 pm
Car: RPS13

Post

I'm curious about this as well.

I've noticed slight oil consumption after beating the piss out of my motor. A good top off of half a quart does it all good.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Yea, but I still had to restrict it down so I could connect it to the SR20 oil/air separator. My thinking was that keeping the piping diameter big would allow room for the oil to drain back to the pan, and the crankcase gasses to escape. I mounted the separator high in the engine compartment, next to the ABS motor/actuator assy. Then from there I ran it into the valve cover. It seemed to work because the outlet of the oil separator never had any oil in it.

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

update

I now know what my "oil consumption" issue was. There was a leak here, that got much, much worse today:

Image

I noticed my oil pressure falling and stopped the car. Filled up a quart of oil, and the oil pressure was fine. I ended up adding two more quarts to get home. (I was stopping often it was leaking like a sieve.) The oil pressure never fell again on the trip.

The whole time the engine sounded great.

I drained the oil and saw this at the bottom of my oil pan:

Image

Part of me says it's OK because the engine is running fine, but I know that glitter is always bad. I suppose there's the chance that this is still break-in debris. The engine was rebuilt 5,000 miles ago.

Please be honest. Am I screwed?

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 29308
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

Glitter is good on strippers, bad in oil. Flush it a time or two and use a magnetic drain plug and see what you get.

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

I already have a magnetic oil plug. There was a little metal on it, but that's nothing new. Dee built the engine and said not to worry about that.

The glitter doesn't stick to a magnet. I guess I just have to run it and pray...

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 29308
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

Not magnetic? It's either aluminum or you actually ingested a stripper.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Yea, that could be some bearing material. It's non-ferrous and won't stick to a magnet. That being said, I wouldn't worry too much and I'd just keep driving it. Did you get the oil leak fixed?

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Thanks for responding. This is a little long, but maybe someone might find it interesting.

There actually was a little bit of metal on my magnetic oil plug, but no more than usual. Dee built the short block 5,000 miles ago and it's been shedding metal onto the plug. He said this is normal because of how he built it. He honed the cylinders and said that you "want the rings fighting the cylinders." I've never built an engine before, but I think I know what he means.

I fixed the leak. I found this page:

how-to-make-turbo-lines-t254366.html

I also did some searching and found out that the front brake hose on a 86 Mustang V8 is M12X1.0 male inverted flare and 7/16-24 female inverted flare. Perfect size.

The guy who set this up used solid brake line. My theory is that the turbo manifold flexes and vibrates slightly which over the years caused the steel line to split leading to my leak.

My solution was to tighten the 90* fitting into the block so that it's parallel to the ground instead of vertical. I then screwed in the Mustang hose. The hose isn't long enough, so I made up the difference with steel brake line. My logic is that since it's only steel on one side this will allow it to vibrate and flex without cracking anything. In any case, I'm on vacation this week, money is tight, I want to drive my car, and I didn't want to wait for braided hose and fittings to arrive in the mail.

The brake hose is rated at 4000 PSI. Brake fluid is oil so it's rated for that. The whole thing cost me $16 to fix. As always I'll be watching my oil and temp gauges like a hawk. I can post an update later if anyone is curious.

blownhemi
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:39 am
Car: S13 200SX CA18DET HX35
Location: Hungary, Eu.

Post

dhen wrote:Thanks for responding. This is a little long, but maybe someone might find it interesting.

There actually was a little bit of metal on my magnetic oil plug, but no more than usual. Dee built the short block 5,000 miles ago and it's been shedding metal onto the plug. He said this is normal because of how he built it. He honed the cylinders and said that you "want the rings fighting the cylinders." I've never built an engine before, but I think I know what he means.

I fixed the leak. I found this page:

how-to-make-turbo-lines-t254366.html

I also did some searching and found out that the front brake hose on a 86 Mustang V8 is M12X1.0 male inverted flare and 7/16-24 female inverted flare. Perfect size.

The guy who set this up used solid brake line. My theory is that the turbo manifold flexes and vibrates slightly which over the years caused the steel line to split leading to my leak.

My solution was to tighten the 90* fitting into the block so that it's parallel to the ground instead of vertical. I then screwed in the Mustang hose. The hose isn't long enough, so I made up the difference with steel brake line. My logic is that since it's only steel on one side this will allow it to vibrate and flex without cracking anything. In any case, I'm on vacation this week, money is tight, I want to drive my car, and I didn't want to wait for braided hose and fittings to arrive in the mail.

The brake hose is rated at 4000 PSI. Brake fluid is oil so it's rated for that. The whole thing cost me $16 to fix. As always I'll be watching my oil and temp gauges like a hawk. I can post an update later if anyone is curious.
I've read it over and over again, and I can't quite make out what kind of hose that brake hose is, but it sounds like some regular type of hydraulic hose. They tolerate any pressure an engine can throw at them, the problem is not that, it is TEMPERATURE. Unless it is a PTFE/teflon tube, it will not tolerate engine oil temperatures! If it's some regular run-of-the-mill hydraulics hose you've got there, DO NOT START the engine, you will melt it! Wait for your braided teflon lines!

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate anyone's input.

I'm not trying to argue, since it would be pointless to ask for advice and then argue, I'm just trying to get all the facts. I found this Federal regulation online:

" Except for brake hose assemblies designed for use with mineral or petroleum-based brake fluids, a hydraulic brake hose assembly shall meet the constriction requirement of S5.3.1 after having been subjected to a temperature of 248 degrees Fahrenheit (120 degrees Celsius) for 70 hours while filled with SAE RM-66-04 “Compatibility Fluid,”"

It's just a normal hose, but since it's a brake hose I'm guessing it's probably over-engineered with the fear of lawsuits, etc. My oil has never been above 240. But, I'm not totally sure if this hose was designed for "mineral or petroleum-based brake fluids."

Thoughts? I know AN line is the right way, but I'm just wondering if this will hold for a week or two.

blownhemi
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 3:39 am
Car: S13 200SX CA18DET HX35
Location: Hungary, Eu.

Post

It's not just your oil temperature. There will be radiant heat from the turbo manifold, the side of the block, and quite a lot conducted heat through the feed banjo bolt on top of the turbo. Brake lines are not subjected to this. What if at the tip of the banjo, where is meets the hose, it will go 30*F over the tested 248*F, cracks just a bit, and you start losing oil at pump-ish pressure? What if you oil does contain some petroleum derivatives, and gunks up the line, or develop a leak?

Nothing short of an opinion from a material engineer from a big name rubber company could convince me to risk an engine or turbo for that 1 more week of fun. In my eyes, it's just not worth it. Nevertheless, you may have no issues at all, and I'll look like an overly cautious fool.

I've just remembered you saying Dee built your engine. What does he say?

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Nothing foolish at all about your concerns. It's not foolish to be cautious.

Dee thinks I'm OK on the engine. He didn't really say anything about the rubber hose. He did say, however, that using a steel line for the whole feed line is a mistake because it will crack, which is exactly what happened to mine. I didn't know this.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

it's a steel line from the factory, but it's REALLY thick too. I think it would be hard to find tubing that thick off the shelf anywhere, so a braided line is probably the only good option.

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Thanks guys. I'll replace it soon with some AN line. It's holding up so far, though. I've got a fire extinguisher in the cabin. LOL

After reading this, my main concern isn't that it would burst, but it might degrade over time and start crumbling inside putting bits of rubber into the oil.

On a positive note, I've put 500 miles on it since it sprung a leak. I hope I'm not jinxing it, but everything sounds and runs great, so I think I caught the leak in time...

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Update:

So I've done 700 miles since the oil incident. I think it sounds fine, but I would really love to get a second opinion. Anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nweB82Z ... e=youtu.be

Thanks

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 19857
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Sounds perfect to me!

User avatar
dhen
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
Car: MGA w/ CA18DET

Post

Thanks for letting me know. Looks like I caught it in time.


Return to “CA18DE / CA18DET Forum”