"2 months without Quella"... The novel.

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AZhitman
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Well, it's time to post THE STORY. I'll try to keep it somewhere between "War & Peace" and "Gone With The Wind".

October 31, 2003: I'm 2 months into working for Scottsdale Infiniti after being laid off by the State... I bring Quella in for her "mandatory" checkup after I ran a Consult PBT and got some weird readings. Turns out the #4 and #8 injectors are outta spec, so those are replaced. While they're at it, I have them replace ALL underplenum hoses (fuel lines and coolant) and check the KS and harnesses. All else checks out OK, so I'm set. Car is completed on 11/13/03.

November 13, 2003: I drive the car home after work - It is all warmed up for me, since they were "burping" the coolant lines. Feeels good, trip home is uneventful. No BMW's to pick on.

November 14, 2003: Start car the next morning (cold). Idles like a big-block '68 Impala with an RV cam and open headers. WHAT THE HELL? Immediately call Scottsdale and request an appointment, can't get in until the 21st. :( Go to work in the "lope-mobile". Smooths out somewhat once operating temp is reached.

November 21, 2003: Drop off car at dealership, grab my G35 and go about my now-miserable life. What is wrong with my baby? No one knows. Dennis doesn't reply. Fred's as baffled as I. I call anyone that will listen. Robert (DAEDALUS) comforts me via phone...

INTERLUDE: Daily occurrences during this time - Every day I show up for work at the dealership (miserable, truly a fish out of water, hate sales), and every day they take my loaner away to give to a "customer" (apparently the hired help doesn't count :confused: ).

November 27, 2003: Service Manager asks me "What's going on with your car?" My reply - "I don't know - You're the Service Manager."

November 29, 2003: I overhear a segment of a conversation between the SM and the Service Writer, which goes something like this: "...Well, of COURSE he's not gonna be in a hurry, HE gets to drive a brand new car instead of his old Q - I want that thing out of my shop!"

*Keep in mind this "thing" he refers to has netted the shop $4500 in repair invoices in the past 2 years*

By the way, I'm still having to "grovel" for a loaner car at the end of my shifts - I'm considering parking a mile away from the dealership and walking to work. :mad:

December 1, 2003: Shop Foreman tells me "It's an old Q - They all do that." I can't help myself - I unload, questioning the sanity of such an absurd statement. Also question his competence as a tech. He retracts statement, swears he will take it upon HIMSELF to figure it out.

I catch the SM in the lunchroom and explain to him that I'd much rather be driving my Q than his damn "rental car" and that I didn't appreciate his comments - Also told him he's not getting my loaner car anymore - I'm a customer too, regardless of where I work. He won't speak to me. I later deduce that he's a world-class jerkoff.

December 7, 2003: Shop Foreman explains there's a "miss" in #5 cylinder. I stare blankly. "And?" He returns to the car.

December 8, 2003: Shop Foreman tells me there's a loss of compression in #5. Again, blank stare. "And?" He asks me, "What do you want us to do?"

- Two thoughts are running through my mind: What did you guys drop down into the intake runner? And please, please, please God don't let her have a cracked block/piston/head/bad ring....

So I offer - "Seems like a leakdown test is in order." SF replies, "We don't have a leakdown tester." *repeat blank stare* I ask him how he expects to determine the cause of the compression loss, he shrugs, refers me to the SM.

I go into the SM's office. He's a surly little guy, probably got beat up a lot on the playground. I'm polite, and ask him if they can do a leakdown test. He says no. I ask him why. He parrots the SF. I explain that it's a $75 tool, and the Snap-On truck is sitting out back. He says, "We're not gonna waste any more time on that car." I explain to him that "that car" has a fat warranty and it puts food on his tech's table, and that it's ridiculous that a multi-million dollar shop with factory-trained techs can't tell me what's wrong with my car! He waves me out of his office and speaks the word:

"Whatever."

You all know me. I don't like "whatever." Now I'm pissed.

Back to the SF. He asks me to give him until tomorrow, and that he's gonna find out what's wrong with it by morning, no matter what. I approve.

December 9, 2003: I show up for work. Can't find my car. Bad sign. I check the back lot. No Quella. I check the roof. There she sits, jammed in Purgatory, with all the "chain guide" victims and blown headgasket cars that the owners haven't made a decision on. There's a piece of paper on her dash. I retrieve it. It's a quote: "68K mile pull-out, 12 month, 12K mile warranty, $2890."

I'd have hit the roof, but I was standing on it. I fly downstairs. This is like hearing your own mother died on the TV news. I ask SF what's wrong with my car - He says, "I don't know - It's either a cracked head or a cracked block." I ask how he determined this. He says, "Well, that's all it could be." I ask him if there was oil in the coolant. He didn't know. I ask him if he observed smoke from the tailpipes. He said no. I ask him if it could be a foreign obstruction in the intake valve. He says he doesn't know.

SM joins the conversation, which doesn't help. I ask him if he would recommend open-heart surgery after talking to a patient on the phone. He says, "We've seen enough of these to know it's not worth messing with."

I decide right then and there I don't want another person from that dealership NEAR my car. I tell the SF to "button it up, I'm getting a second opinion."

December 10, 2003: I pick my car up - SF has the balls to tell me, "We could have that motor pulled and swapped in 6 hours." I restrain myself from the obvious. Make a mental note to get a real job. FAST.

Russ Glindmeier comes to the rescue (russg from NICO). He calls me, and we talk at length. He offers to introduce me to a guy that he trusts implicitly with all his work.

December 16, 2003: Russ and I meet for lunch, and he introduces me to Kenny Wann, SF for Midway Infiniti. Kenny has a kind and nurturing manner that's a little out-of-place for a technician. He adds that he's owned 2 Q's, and misses them. He listens intently to my tale, and strolls out to eyeball Quella. He has a tentative diagnosis, and time would reveal him to be RIGHT ON. He promises to be the ONLY one to touch my car, and I feel I can trust him to take care of her. I'm warned that this could take a while, as he has many other duties... I agree.

FAST FORWARD!!!!

Late January: I stop by the dealership to visit my car - Kenny gives me a full tour. He explains to me what he's done. He started with FOUR de-carb treatments, to make sure we weren't dealing with a carbon issue. He then began disassembly, and every part was cleaned and polished - Plenum, TB, intake runners, all bright and shiny inside. Amazing attention to detail.

He has the driver's side head off the engine, and shows me the problem:

Se how the normally straight bevel is concave? It was "sucked" into the valve seat really hard, enough to "flower" the sealing surface. Says it's the first he's ever seen do that, but there's no evidence of obstruction or any other damage to the valve or piston, and the valve is perfectly straight - Put it in a drill and spun it, no runout or wobble.

Also, he shows me: NO varnish on the heads - they're silver, with a light coating of Mobil 1. NO sludge in the valve covers - they're light tan. NO wear on the cam lobes - They mic-out identical to new specs. NO wear on the cam bearings. He explains that there is literally NO wear on the top end of this engine. NONE. I had considered just replacing the heads with the "crate" set from SoCal91Q45a. He says there's no reason whatsoever. He's replacing the valve and seat.

Then he goes a step further: He shows me the inside of the #5 cylinder bore, which is at the bottom of its stroke. NO lip at the top of the cylinder bore. What can be better? A bright flashlight and a crawl into the engine bay reveals the cross-hatching is STILL PRESENT in the cylinder bore. Phenomenal. He asks me, "What did you expect?"

February 5, 2004: The call comes - She's ready. She has spent almost 2 months there. They kept her 6" off the ground on a lift so as not to flatspot the tires. They've HAND WASHED her. They've put Mobil 1 in her. And an OLD stock OEM filter :). And a 70/30 distilled water/AF mix. AND they installed my 20mm sway bar with new polyurethane bushings (that were in the trunk) at no charge! They've put 40 "test-drive" miles on her to ensure she's perfect. $2,712 is the damage, and guess whose extended warranty company came through AGAIN? You guessed it. :)

Words cannot express the appreciation I have for Kenny Wann, Shop Foreman and Kenneth Hutchings, Service Manager. I suppose the best I can say is, if youre anywhere near Phoenix, consider the Midway team for your service. I'm in awe.

She runs phenomenally - I missed my car! :D


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Touchdown038
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Damn what a read.... good to hear the car is back and running great!

Just goes to show that you don't know what you have until it's gone.

DAEDALUS
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Glad to hear she's all good Greg. I've never heard of a valve doing that either. It's awesome he could pull the head with the engine in the car to do all that. Just awesome. Amazing price too, dealership or not.

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Mr1der
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wow, that sucks but glad to see the car was properly taken care of in the end.

Technicians that care about their work and what it's on kick ***!:ylsuper

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Jesda
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I live vicariously through Quella! Good to hear shes purring like a kitten again!

Q45tech
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Pre/ early ignition [knock] maybe............gotta watch that AZ gas........about the only thing that could exert enough pressure.......coupled with a lean mixture was this a cylinder where the injector was replaced? Ever [you said 4&8?].

nuQ
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GREAT NEWS GREG!!!! glad to hear you're back in the saddle again! that must have SUCKED, going to work at the place that was screwing around with your Q!! couldn't imagine! congratulations on your happy ending!!jeff

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AZhitman
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Q45tech wrote:Pre/ early ignition [knock] maybe............gotta watch that AZ gas........about the only thing that could exert enough pressure.......coupled with a lean mixture was this a cylinder where the injector was replaced? Ever [you said 4&8?].


Both KS were replaced in 1/02. Running 91 octane with Dynotab additive. All injectors have been replaced somewhere along the line...

Dennis - What do you think about the wear comments? Seems to me that if the peripherals of this engine were engineered as well as the internals, these engines are capable of 500K miles or more.

I may be wrong, but I credit the lack of wear, no varnish and perfect bearings to frequent Mobil 1 changes since birth.

HeavyDuty
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Different car but same story here, Greg. My former Fla Hwy Patrol 88LX 5.0 was acquired my me in 1991 with 65k miles. I immediately started using Mobil1 & 12 years later when I pulled the heads for upgrade, the 125k mi 5.0 roller motor w/forged pistons was like new.

I use Mobil1 in my lawnmower, too.

I can't imagine a fellow employee or group of them not rallying to help you with your car. If mine or one of my guy's cars is down, it becomes an immediate priority to get it back on the road, irrespective of the extent of work to be performed.

Glad you got it back.

Altiman94
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thats quite a write-up AZ. Glad to hear you got your car back. I know how you feel in not having your car for so long. Mine seesm to live in the shop, good thing my motor also has a 2 year warranty on it.

Q45tech
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The longest we have seen a Q motor go is 285,000 miles without internal work. Many are trashed in the 150ks from oil abuse.

The 430,000+ mile company Q failed when a ring let go after some [not all] bearing and [not all] ring replacements at around 275,000 miles...........wouldn't call it a rebuild just used what we had on hand

We don't have enough data as a rigorous inspection was never carried out...............mileage means so little because it the number of dry cold cranks that age an engine.

Obviously Mobil 1 helps.

Even mine is suffering at idle but gets ok when warm and above 1500 rpm at 261k..........probably be really annoying by 300k or it may not get worse who knows?

Upper rings don't get much oil and are exposed to all the intake/egr dirt.

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AZhitman
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I hope to combat that by rigorous changing of the air filter (only OEM since birth), changed every 5K miles.

I don't put enough miles on her to see 300K any time soon. She's at 105K now (production date 6/95).

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Rex
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Q45tech wrote:Pre/ early ignition [knock] maybe............gotta watch that AZ gas........about the only thing that could exert enough pressure.......coupled with a lean mixture was this a cylinder where the injector was replaced? Ever [you said 4&8?].


Greg - Think it has anything to dow ith the "Coors Light" you had to run when that pipe line busted, creating a shortage of fuel in AZ??

Glad to hear she's out hunting some Beemer Butt :D

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Q451990
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Glad to hear that it's back up and running again! I guess you know where your car will be worked on in the future... Hate that you had such problems with Scottsdale - at least their Internet Parts Manager is top notch!

Heath

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AZhitman
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Yep - Kenny's the ONLY person who's ever gonna touch her again.

The other techs make fun of him and say he "makes love" to Q45's. Fine with me.

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1qckser
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:birthday: It must fell like the best birthday present you have ever recieved, glade shes back, you should take the paperwork to those other idiots and show em what a reall Technician can find when he knows his job and the product he works on, how does she run now with everything nice and clean?

russg
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Greg:

Glad to hear that my man Kenny came through for you. Obviously worth the wait. I've considered Ken a treasured asset for many years. Before he was promoted to shop foreman, he did all the wrenching on my G50. Too bad that it's so uncommon to find a technician with his kind of talent that will take time out of his day to listen intently to a customer's concerns, and then treat their car like it was his own. Now that she's healthy again, I'm looking forward to cutting in and taking Miss Q for a twirl on the dance floor.

mersidoe
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I'm glad you had a happy ending. If you work there, and had that much trouble with the service department, imagine how bad it must be for those that drive in off the street!

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AZhitman
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T - she runs spectacularly - Smoothest idle EVER, and so quiet.

BTW, the 20mm rear bar with poly bushings was the finishing touch, SO fun to power out of a corner now :).

Russ, I owe you bigtime. Any time, my friend. Any time. Let's plan lunch soon, perhaps a couple of the other locals (Don, Wayne, dkill) will join us?

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elwesso
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**SNIFF SNIFF**

Glad you got her going..... Im very surprised about scottsdale... They seemed like the best people to deal with...... Not to mention you essentially gave them nearly 5000!!!

So you gonna cancel those plane tickets and drive her out to KY??? :D

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diamondj30
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i commend you hitman,i would be in jail if he did that to me.thats one thing about getting older,you dont take any crap.physcotic(who me)-----------ya,goota love those new loaners with crap suspension made for the general puplic.one thing i do when i drive there crappy loner is slow the uck down.they are so ignorant it amazes me.like my spelling,lol

TgduMg
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Jesda wrote:I live vicariously through Quella! Good to hear shes purring like a kitten again!
Ditto!!!...:D...Danisiti 1...(Datsun-Nissan-Infiniti #1)...:ylsuper :ylsuper :ylsuper

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azskygod
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I'm glad to hear everything turned out OK, although I'm surprised you didn't go crazy and start beating people with their own limbs... "It's an old Q -- They all do that." HA! I've actually heard that line from a Scottsdale service manager before, and that's why I decided to do as much of my own maintenance as possible. So frustrating.

I'll be watching for you on the freeway...

AZSKYGOD

maxnix
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Great news! But what caused it and how can a recurrence be prevented? Would love to hear what Ken has to say.

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PalmerWMD
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All's well that ends well.

Fred..:thumbup

rydwhite
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Great to hear Hitman. I think I would have shot the service tech and service manager though. I second Wes, I think you should drive her out to KY for the March meet. I would love to meet Quella in person. I've heard so much about her that I feel like I already know her.

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AZhitman
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maxnix wrote:Great news! But what caused it and how can a recurrence be prevented? Would love to hear what Ken has to say.


Ken said he's spoken with other SF's in other states and no one has seen such a thing.

I'd love to know as well, but I'm too damn busy enjoying my POLISHED TB, plenum and intake runners to worry about it.

I'd like to hear some theories... Dennis hasn't even come up with anything.

maxnix
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Well, I was wondering if these lamebrains had over saturated the cylinder with a volatile starting fluid, and when it lighted, just slammed the valve closed. Don't know exactly how it could be concentrated in that one cylinder more than the others. You know they will not admit anything at this point, but it had to be due to one of their failed strategies. Probably would take a thousand monkeys a million years to replicate it.

I presume it was an exhaust valve?__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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