1st GEN Q45 question.

[Dave 88 LSC]

Hi I am a new member. I am so glad to have found this board, good information is hard to come by these days.

I am planing to get a 94 Q soon and was wondering what are the problems that haunt these cars, weak spots sort of speak of. Things to stay away from. I've hears that the 90-93 models had Timing chain guides problem and costs a lot to fix that.

I would like to hear you inputs.

Thank You

Dave

[godking]

it is unlikely that you could find a 90-91 that the guides haven't been replaced, and if you did you wouldn't want it.

[DAEDALUS]

Not true at all! The chains are very durable and last the life of the car in nearly all cases, except where bad chain guides are involved. Many members have original chains and over 200k. The 2nd gen cars (94-96) are excellent vehicles, having fixed the guides in nearly all models and with a front grill for a cooler engine. Aside from normal wear and tear items that need to be replaced, I can't think of anything catastrophic. Just be aware that even wear and tear items are expensive. Future costs are almost directly related to maintenance habits. A well maintained Q gives very few problems.

[greg_atlanta]

It all depends on how the car was treated before and what work has been done to date.

It's possible for a '94-'96 Q to go 100K miles with little or no maintenance other than tires, brakes, & oil changes. Lots of people get rid of them at the first hint of major repairs. So you could be buying one of those cars.

Just budget at least $3000-5000 over the first year or two to get it in good shape.

[Q451990]

it is unlikely that you could find a 90-91 that the chain hasn't been replaced, and if you did you wouldn't want it.

Lots of early Qs go 200K without catastrophic guide failure... it's just that it's common enough that most people who are informed (some by experience) won't take the gamble. With Infiniti's lack of leadership on the issue, the vast majority of dealerships either aren't even aware of the problem because the service writers weren't there back when the cars came in to the dealership frequently - or they just don't mention it.

My dealer service advisor always told me "we don't see it that much" but that didn't stop him from handing me a $2800 invoice after they fixed the minor damage from my guide failure at 120K.

I was lucky, only one slightly bent valve... the one parked outside the service bay only had 77K and the valves were actually sheered off and the piston heads had dime sized holes in them.

Heath

[godking]

I was told (by the chap that Nissan Canada sent to Japan in 89 to come back and train the original Infiniti shops) that between 1995 and 98 (when I had mine done) every 90-91Q that they saw had flecks of bakilite (sp? the synthetic ceramic crap the guides were made of that Nissan no longer uses) on the chain or visible cracks on the guides. From what they showed me I don't know how my chain stayed on. I had less than 45k kms (28k mi) on it at that time. There used to be a website that was trying to shame Infiniti into doing something about this issue; the pictures of "chain death" were pretty nasty.

[DAEDALUS]

The chains and the guides are completely different stories. The chains are strong. The guides were crap. Bakelite, to my understanding, was the predecessor to modern plastics. I can't think of any reason to use it, if it's as weak and brittle as I think it is. Old molded components made in the 40's and 50's were made of bakelite I think. Think Beaver Cleaver's telephone. I thought the guides were made of nylon, but I can't tell just by looking at them. This might surprise you, but the engine can run just fine without 2 of the 4 guides.

[juiceman]

You are correct that bakelite is the "old" fashioned plastic but believe it or not is is still being used in many electrical application. This is because it is a thermoset plastic which means it does not melt when being burned, just charred.

It uses the oldest method of molding know and many molding houses have given up on it for easier to mold thermoplastic materials.

I have not seen the guides of a Q but unless there were some pretty exotic additives, this material would not hold up well in a wear type application such as the guides. But who is to second guess their decision, the plastics available today are light years ahead of those available 10 to 15 years ago.

Finally something I do know about.

[Dave 88 LSC]

Ok, so would it be wiser to shell out a grand or two more for a 94 model to avoid the guide problem? Cause it looks like the moment I get a 90-93 model i'll be riding a time bomb unless I shell out 1500 for the guides to be changed.I'll be getting the car from the auction, meaning I wount have time to check the car out the way I want.90-93's go for 2000-4000, and 94-up goes for 5000-up.

Thanx

[PalmerWMD]

There is some debate on that.

many feel the edgier nature of the slightly lighter and slighty more powerful 90-93's is worth the extra maintenance.

But a lot of PPL like the 90-93's anyway.I was carshopping just a couple of weeks ago to replace a gorgeous 91 in perfect(!) shape (see members ride section), at first I was kinda set on a 90-93.

I did wind up getting a 94 since it was a special opportunity.

Fred...

[eQlipse]

In regards to the chain guides, would a dealer be able to run your VIN & determine if they were replaced? The '90 I have was well maintained when purchased @ 59k. It even had 60k service completed.

[DAEDALUS]

Yes, but only if done at the dealer. This was never a warranty issue on its own--only if an engine failure was involved. Going to an independent shop offers savings of over $2000 in most cases--I think dealer guide jobs are rare occurrences.

[maxnix]

Quote »Bakelite, to my understanding, was the predecessor to modern plastics.[/quote] Bakelite is a generic trade name for a substance called Phenol Formaldehyde. A later evolvement from Bakelite was Urea Formaldehyde (early 1930's). The development of Urea enabled manufacturers to obtain a wide variety of colors not previously available. It was the first thermoset plastic developed. Think old telephones and distributor caps. It is dense, strong and durable, provided it is not subject to high impact pressures. Also it, is machinable (think failing chain guides). While it is rarely used in this country because of the production expense, the Japanese still favor its use in many applications.

Since it is produced from phenol and fromaldehyde via an alkaline catalyst, I would think it would be compromised by prolonged exposure to an acidic solution (think used oil). Hence Daedulus' theory on guide failure may be an accurate reflection of reality.

[eQlipse]

I suspect that it may have been done but will have to verify. Was there a recall of any sorts on the chain guides during that time? Also when did the problems start surfacing?

[Dave 88 LSC]

Thanks for info guys.

For some reason I had an idea that the Q was a very problematic car. I drive my cars hard, I demand a lot but I also take care of them well. I believe the car should serve me not the other way around. I will not be a slave to a car, thats what I am trying to avoid. I know that Lexus is more durable, but I dont like the way it looks.In my opinion First gen Q45 has timeless design. I just wish it was easy to work on like my Lincoln is.

[maxnix]

Quote »I know that Lexus is more durable[/quote] Not true if properly maintained. Search Q45tech quotes as their shop maintains a lot of Lexi since there are more of them.

[Q451990]

The guides were never a recall issue - in fact many dealerships are unaware of the problem. I talked to a service advisor at my local dealership that had been there 8 months and had no idea what the hell I was talking about. Probably thought I was crazy unless she asked some of the more experienced techs.

If your car has been in for maintenence at a dealership recently, the service records should still be on file (pull by VIN). It's doubtful the guides were replaced at an independent shop, but possible. A good sign is by looking at the seals on the front cover. If it looks light blue (at least on the 90s) and very smooth like from the factory - I'd say it's original.

My guess is that an auction is not the best place to purchase a Q. These are dealer trade-ins that they didn't want to sell on their lot for some reason! There's no way in hell I would buy a Q without at least taking it for a test drive!! Count on paying $2000-4000 on deferred maintenence on ANY older luxo/sport cars unless you have confirmed proof that it's been done.

You're right that the 94-96 will tend to have better reliability rates for the transmission, and no chain guide issues.

I like to find lower mileage or well-maintained private party sales. Bought "Q2" from a CEO in San Jose that drove it from his garage at home to his garage at work, took the car and a blank check to the dealer for service, and flew a lot for travel (so low miles)

Heath