1996 J30

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whatchagonnado
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Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:39 pm

My previous post addressed my alternator problem not charging. Well, problem that first caused me to change out the alt was a worn and oil soaked belt. So one week later after fixing the belt problem, the problem occurred again, charge 13.0V at 2000 and 11.3 with full load.

Further inspection shows oil all over the alt and car frame and traced it to the Front crankshaft seal as the most likely cause.
I have the crank pulley off but I don't see the seal. I am wondering if I have to pull off the timing belt cover.

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


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AZhitman
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Re: 1996 J30

Postby AZhitman » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:28 pm

Yes, the front cover is the issue.

Probably not a terrible idea, since you're this far into it, to pull the motor and reseal the whole thing. If the crankshaft seal is bad, then the rear main seal is likely as well.... followed by the oil pan seal, the valve covers, etc.

Do you have the FSM? If not, here ya go: infinitiservicemanual.com

whatchagonnado
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:42 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

Re: 1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:21 am

Thank you for you reply and especially for the link to the service manual information.

My reason for wanting to do this seal replacement is because the seal or front oil pan gasket not 100% sure of which one; is seeping out oil onto the back of crankshaft pulley. Then the clockwise rotation is splashing on to the Alternator drive belt the Alternator body and winding's.

On page E-22 it says to remove the oil pan and Timing belt. That is way over the labor I thought was involved to replace the seal. The car has 166,000 miles on it and has plenty of short issues that need fixed. At this point, I think it will be better to just add oil, clean up the oil drippings and change belts every couple thousand miles.

I have not removed the timing belt cover to look at the forward crankshaft seal. I assumed a seal puller and 4 hours labor would fix the problem. I don't know why Nissan would build an engine that had to be removed and partially disassembled to replace a 10 dollar seal that is guaranteed to fail on every engine over 75,000 miles. I bought a new 86 Nissan pick up truck that had major engineering design flaws. Said I would never buy another Nissan. Well, made another mistake with this Infinity.

I have one more issue I need to address but will do it in another posting.

whatchagonnado
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Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

Re: 1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:06 pm

Well, not a good day getting everything disassembled. First time on this engine had me talking to myself and walking away several times. Finally, got the thermostat output and input tubes removed. This was the second time. Assume a dealer first time replaces timing belt & water pump at 80,000. What I noticed was they used a black RTV type sealant instead of gaskets. I have checked parts stores and a gasket is sold for the thermostat tube but not for the other. Looked at the Infinity part exploded view and did not see mention of a second gasket option.

I can't believe Infinity would not have gaskets available for reassembly. There is so much labor to put it all back together prior to filling the system then starting, pressurizing then checking for leaks. If someone knows if two gaskets are available or is using Black RTV the standard assembly practice.

Thank you for any input or suggestions.

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AZhitman
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Re: 1996 J30

Postby AZhitman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:00 pm

Yes, for aluminum surfaces, a thin coat of RTV is sufficient and often preferable to a paper gasket.

J30tChumpCar
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Re: 1996 J30

Postby J30tChumpCar » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:23 am

whatchagonnado wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:06 pm
Well, not a good day getting everything disassembled. First time on this engine had me talking to myself and walking away several times. Finally, got the thermostat output and input tubes removed. This was the second time. Assume a dealer first time replaces timing belt & water pump at 80,000. What I noticed was they used a black RTV type sealant instead of gaskets. I have checked parts stores and a gasket is sold for the thermostat tube but not for the other. Looked at the Infinity part exploded view and did not see mention of a second gasket option.

I can't believe Infinity would not have gaskets available for reassembly. There is so much labor to put it all back together prior to filling the system then starting, pressurizing then checking for leaks. If someone knows if two gaskets are available or is using Black RTV the standard assembly practice.

Thank you for any input or suggestions.
Stop short of the oil pan, that part is completely unnecessary!

Even being a seasoned tech, the first exposure to a J30 12 years ago had me walking off multiple times, literally the car got parked for months on 2 occasions before digging in and figuring out there IS logic to the way its put together, its a damn good, but complicated car, once you get past the leather that never seems to hold up.

As you have already figured out the front crank seal requires timing belt removal, time to check the 3 idlers for noise and replace the CAM seals as well, as THEY are most likely the leak dripping down and slinging, all seals are the same, ( I buy 6 so its not so frustrating when one gets ruined...) Shop @ Rockauto.com. I just did one of these the other day.

Make darn sure all the timing marks are aligned before disassembly (the bottom is a b**** to figure out the first time) Use a gun on the cam sprockets with the belt still on You do have the radiator out of the way already? You want much room.

Already covered but confirming, all water pipes come from the factory with grey RTV, all I use is ultra grey. The thing was not designed with gaskets in that location.

This engine, once you get used to it, is a fine piece of engineering (no sarcasm) you will not encounter coolant leaks if cleaned up well (change the stubby hoses, weird size but obtainable as bulk hose)
Unfortunately the first or second time in the timing cover of one of these will be unpleasant. You will be back here asking about timing belt tensioner adjustment, its not as hard as it sounds but first will be getting the cam sprockets off, watch the passenger side cams, they are teetering on cam lobes and want to spin away hard if moved more then a few degrees. This IS a interference engine, never bent a valve even letting the cams slip/spin but be careful.

As for the other short items, what can not be found on rock auto will need to be gotten from the junkyard, getting harder to find them, but honestly, this is your only option. Just for random knowledge, the 300zx non turbo shares this engine, 1990-96 z 1993-97 j30 There are small differences but same engine.

Yes the thermostat is bent/disabled, this car is track only.

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whatchagonnado
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:42 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

Re: 1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 am

AZhitman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:00 pm
Yes, for aluminum surfaces, a thin coat of RTV is sufficient and often preferable to a paper gasket.
I used a special clear sealant on Honda motorcycle cases way back when I did that stuff. A clear watery sealer, dried clear and never leaked. Will go with your recommendation and stay away from the paper basket. I just thought it strange RTV was used instead of paper gasket. So I needed to ask the question. Thanks

Afterthought. I needed to reseal my Town Car differential. They also used RTV instead of a gasket as was normal up to the days of automation assembly.

whatchagonnado
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:42 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

Re: 1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:23 pm

J30tChumpCar

Thank you very much for your input. Finally got all the covers off to look at the timing section. Absolutely dry belt on both sides. NO oil seeping from the cam seals. Oil was puddled under the crankshaft shaft and in front of the oil pump.
Have decided to install new, water pump, belt, crank seal at the minimum. Unfortunately, found out this morning I am need at another job site out of state for up to 6 + weeks. My grandson needs transportation so have decided to put it back together and order parts and complete the project when I return. Yes, extra work but now that I know steps to remove all the components, It wont take much time and all the parts anr now sparkling clean. The good thing is when I pull it apart next time I will know for sure if any cam seals are leaking.

I was looking for a torque chart. I dont care to install bolts "GOOD N TIGHT" on aluminum engines especially the water inlet/outlet hardware.

whatchagonnado
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:42 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti J30

Re: 1996 J30

Postby whatchagonnado » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:32 pm

requirement to work at temporary job site has been put on hold. I am happy about it. because I really did not want to have to put it together temp just to do it again short time later. And the leak was most likely going to sideline the car within a week of reassembly.

So my plan is to install new timing belt and crankshaft oil seal at the very least. I now expect to keep the car just another year or so. As said before, the cam seals look dry underneath with no tell tale signs of oil seepage. Timing belt is totally free of oil both sides.

So that said; I will go with the experience in completing the repairs.

When I removed the crankshaft pulley, I noticed the power steering pulley is keyed to turn with the crankshaft but the AC and Alternator pulley is fairly free wheeling. Is this a clutch type pulley setup, that is, the free wheeling pulleys lock up when the engine is running. Is this normal??

Based on the service sticker, the timing belt was replaced 70,000 miles. I don't have paperwork to know if water pump also replaced at that time. Service was done at Infinity dealer. Current mileage is 163,000.

My gut experience tells me to also replace water pump,and timing belt in addition to the crankcase forward seal.
The service manual says to remove the oil pump to remove the seal. Is this required? I thought a seal puller would eliminate the extra labor. Rock Auto does not list a oil seal gasket or "O" ring for replacement as is highlighted in the service manual.

Gates water pump uses RTV sealer. Other pump brands use a gasket. What is best go to?
I have not set the crankshaft TDC to line up ALL the camshafts prior to removal, so there is no way to know if I need to replace the three idler pulleys. Recommendation please.

I have replaced several Honda belts with just two camshafts but first time doing four. It looks like a bear and makes me nervous just looking at the project. Have read the step by step to replace the belt but not ready to pull it just yet. I am familiar with the cam wanting to spring out of position and will take special care during assembly.

This has been a long posting, I apologize for that. I hope I did not leave out any important points to replacing parts. Thank you for viewing/replies.


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