1994 q45t miss fire and rough idle, suggestions

[Carguy_NW]

I've changed the plugs and replaced the coil packs no change!!!! Gregs Japanese Auto repair thinks it may be fuel injectors and $1,000.+ I'm scheduled to take the car in this Friday. Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Jerome

[Romeo5k]

i dont know what a misfire is.. but with commmon sense.. u kinda sound like mehttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/187957

[elwesso]

yep, i bet injecotrs are to blame, check out Q45.org on a tutorial...

[Carguy_NW]

Thank you for the link to past discussions regarding "rough" ide syndrome. I'm going out to check all of the items.......

Thanks again,

Jerome

[Carguy_NW]

It sounds like the injectors are a pain to replace..... Also I'm seeing prices all over the board any suggestions on a "good buy" for them? Also should I replace all of them or just the bad one? Sorry for my ignorance, as I would never replace just one spark plug....

[elwesso]

injectors are a little different since theyre not really considered a wear item...

I would only get an OEM injector, some have had luck with getting used ones, and 94 injectors are more solid that 90-93 injectors so you may be in luck there...

[Carguy_NW]

Thanks, How do I test for a bad injector?

[elwesso]

http://www.q45.org/ohminjectors.html

[Carguy_NW]

oK, confirmed...# 7 injector is bad...... $ 292. 00 for the injector and 6.9 hours labor..... 1 hour more in labor to change the rest at the above injector price x 7!!!! How hard is it to do? shoud I repair it myself?

[elwesso]

292 for an injector.... YIKES its not mroe than $150 shipped from Joe, 7 hours labor is a ripoff... Its like 4 tops!

[Q45tech]

7 hours labor is a ripoff... Its like 4 tops!

You better get a copy of the warranty book labor guide.

Don't confuse actual time [once the car is cool, hood open], what about time spent at parts department waiting on the parts, and remember the test drive time after job is complete, plus all the interaction time between service writer, valet, tech, valet, billing department , and finally cashier.

I cannot imagine any dealer that can do the job: drive in drive out time of less than 6.9 hours...........the moment you first deal with employee until you sign and pay the bill.

$150 for injectors better recheck after April price increase probably $220?

[qsiguy]

........what about time spent at parts department waiting on the parts, and remember the test drive time after job is complete, plus all the interaction time between service writer, valet, tech, valet, billing department , and finally cashier........

I'm sorry but if the dealers (or any shop for that matter) bills for all (or some) those things that is a rip off. If my shop tried adding time spent at writing up their bill, collecting at the cashier, etc. I'd get laughed at! If I quote 2 hours for an install then that install took me 2 hours. Not an 1 hour plus 15 minutes for me to call tech support because I didn't know how to do something, 15 min to read the install manual as it has been a while since I sold that part, 15 minutes to write up the invoice and 15 minutes to ring them up at the cashier.

Our policy has always been that we don't charge the customer for our learning time. If the install should take 2 hours and we spend 3+ hours on it because it was a new product and we didn't know how to do it without some research we don't charge the customer for our ignorance. I also wouldn't charge someone per hour while I was waiting for parts to be delivered and the car is just sitting there, that's just silly.

[Q45tech]

I'm trying to desribe the difference in book time vs actual expert time and how business overhead results in a $100-$125 per hour rate when the techs are paid $20-$25 per book hour.

The business breaks even the tech usually gets screwed unless he is an expert in time managment.

All a matter of spending his personal money on tools which speed his work up and persuading the dealership into doing the same thing.

When you study the financials of a dealership you find the only place where they make any profit is used cars [20%] and parts sales [100% less inventory, labor and shipping.............net net about 20%].

They are lucky to breakeven on the shop, facility and labor components

[elwesso]

$150 for injectors better recheck after April price increase probably $220?

$167 from Joe... Thats what i base my prices off of...

I understand what your talking about tech, but even an independent shop shouldnt charge that much labor to get an injector out and replace it... I see the test drive and final prep things that come with the job....

[Romeo5k]

well im looking at alldatapro right now.. and i show that the part is 187.62 and the labor is 4.6 hours. sooooo all that about 7hrs is jibberish. . i wouldnt allow it. but it does happen. I know a mechanic that charges parts and labor the exact price of dealer. Told me it would cost 800-1000$ for the #3coil!!

[Q45tech]

Take it to the shop that charges 4.6 hours. Sounds lovely to me. Happy to lose that business.

We cannot even buy the oem injector for that price. [we pay a few more $ ~~ $173] because parts are delivered twice per day.

Every time we remove a plenum we install 8 brand new runner o-rings to avoid [the 99% probabllty of creating a tiny vacuum leak that will go unnoticed].

[maxnix]

Every time we remove a plenum we install 8 brand new runner o-rings to avoid [the 99% probabllty of creating a tiny vacuum leak that will go unnoticed].

I knew there was a good reason I bought all eight of those even though others have reused them.

[Q45tech]

I learned the hard way to change every vacuum and coolant hose plus fuel hoses plus every fuel gasket and every runner gasket when you bother to remove the plenum.

You just disturb too many aged things when you lift it..........what's another 2-3 hours work and $400 in hoses and gaskets/orings.

Removing the fuel rail to the bench allows you to look and test everything so easily............make a decision about injector harness and get the slime from the engine valley.

[maxnix]

..........what's another 2-3 hours work and $400 in hoses and gaskets/orings.

Ummmm......probably another 6-7 hours of labor to get back in and out, plus the expense of the parts that weren't replaced the first time, plus another day without the car.

False economy. Spend a little more now or a lot more later.

[Romeo5k]

oK, confirmed...# 7 injector is bad...... $ 292. 00 for the injector and 6.9 hours labor..... 1 hour more in labor to change the rest at the above injector price x 7!!!! How hard is it to do? shoud I repair it myself?

Have u repaired the injector.. And did it fix the problem.. Please let us know.. i would really like to know..

[Romeo5k]

I've changed the plugs and replaced the coil packs no change!!!! Gregs Japanese Auto repair thinks it may be fuel injectors and $1,000.+ I'm scheduled to take the car in this Friday. Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Jerome

read this toohttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=189875

[Q45tech]

How many 90-95 Q45 does Gregs Japanese Auto work on each week?

Make sure they are really qualified to undertake the project to a very high level of competence...[as most shops are used to just I4 and V6]........so many little things can go wrong with a plenum removal................if they change injectors have them remove the entire fuel rail and replace all fuel hoses and examine all injectors for corrosion .................you don't want to have to do this again soon.

New orings all around.

A quick test of competence is:1. Show Me your copy of the shop manual for a 94-95 Q452. Show Me your Consult I or 2- 3 Diagnostic Computer not some generic!3. Ask this question: Even though the FSM say 10-14 ohms for injectors what should it actually read [12 +- 0.5] with a precision VOM.