1994 Q45a and a laundry list of things to fix...

[Wooman70]

To all,

I purchased a 94 Q45a from someone last summer and I have ever since regret it. I should have checked the car more thoroughly and done more research about Q45 BEFORE I went for it. The car has 166k on it already and is still driveable but has rough idle whenever I stop at the light. The Active Suspension light is on and I suspect it is not functioning because the ride is definitely rough. Gas mileage is definitely much lower than I expected even for a V8 -- only getting around 12 mpg for a full tank (18 gal). I know there is something seriously wrong but don't know for sure what exactly is wrong with it so I finally decided to take it to a shop to have it completely checked out. The shop called and broke the news that the car needs to have 8 different things to be fixed in order to bring the car back to "normal condition". The following is the list of 8 items the shop mentioned:

1. EGR + EGR valve gasket replacement ---> for rough idle and poor gas mileage.2. Belt Replacement ---> it's just needed that because it's old3. Valve Cover Gasket Replacement ---> same as above reason plus leak4. Spark Plugs Replacement ---> old5. Power Steering Pump Replacement ---> leak6. Fuel Pump Replacement ---> the infamous "humming" noise7. Valve Guide Seal Replacement ---> blue white smoke in the morning8. Rear brakes needs new pad ---> getting low at 25%

The shop quoted me around $3000 for just items 1 - 6. Item 7 alone is $3000 and #8 is around 300.

At this point, does the car worth the cost to fix it?

Thanks,

Wooman70

[Q45tech]

At this point, does the car worth the cost to fix it?

Wouldn't this question apply to any and all used cars over 9 years old where the value has been reduced to 10 cents on the uninflated dollar.

Worth vs cost to fix. Worth is worth to owner not some imaginary resale.8 different things to be fixed in order to bring the car back to "normal condition".

Blue smoke so early [166k] proves that the the oil type and change interval were not to the 90 day spec for longevity. There will be more wear than just value guides upon internal examination.

[3Q Jay]

David-welcome to NICO. I live close to you and i have learned a lot about the active. hit me an email, i'll meet with you and let you know what i think.

Jay

[elwesso]

definitely take up Jay on his offer with the active....!!

As far as the other stuff, the EGR may or may not be causing the rough idle... Generally they dont fail on the Q, and many times you can just take the valve off and clean it..

If your Q has a solid trans and a clean motor (with 166k with blue smoke, thats very iffy) its probably worth hanging on to... HOWEVER, regardless, plan on spending 3-5 grand to make the car really good.. 3 grand if you can do some of it yourself, 5 grand if you have to pay someone...

Skip the valve guides as they are made of a very expensive VITON material and dont wear out.

FOr the rough idle check out your injectors... You can test them yourself by spending $20 on a digital multimeter..... or if you want print instructions on Q45.org and give them to your shop, it only takes a couple mins.. More likely that is causing your rough idle and poor fuel mileage, especially if yo ulive in cali!

With the active, first thing you need to do is make sure the fluid level is correct... Im sure thats why the active light is on ALONG with a possible sensor failure.

I would go ahead and get the fuel pump replaced regardless... Do that first and we cna worry about the other stuff, which wont leave you stranded, but the fuel pump will!

[louiegz]

Skip the valve guides as they are made of a very expensive VITON material and dont wear out.

I don't think he's talking about the guides, but the seal or gasket for that front cover for the timing chain and guides.

7. Valve Guide Seal Replacement ---> blue white smoke in the morning

Am I right?

I would go ahead and get the fuel pump replaced regardless... Do that first and we cna worry about the other stuff, which wont leave you stranded, but the fuel pump will!

Yea, Wes is right. I did mine and I don't know how to fix anything. If you do it yourself, You'll save like $400.00 compaired to dealer prices. Best to replace with OEM fuel pump. It's a bit of a pain to get to the pump. You don't want to do it again any time soon.

[elwesso]

hes talking about the valve guides/seals. it what seals the valves in theheads. on DOMESTIC motors they often wear out and cause smoke on startup... Rarely the case on the Q, but rather worn rings.

[louiegz]

hes talking about the valve guides/seals. it what seals the valves in theheads. on DOMESTIC motors they often wear out and cause smoke on startup... Rarely the case on the Q, but rather worn rings.

Oh, I'm sorry. I got confused. I saw guides and I was thinking chain guides. Thanks for setting me strait.

[3Q Jay]

1. EGR + EGR valve gasket replacement ---> for rough idle and poor gas mileage.2. Belt Replacement ---> it's just needed that because it's old3. Valve Cover Gasket Replacement ---> same as above reason plus leak4. Spark Plugs Replacement ---> old5. Power Steering Pump Replacement ---> leak6. Fuel Pump Replacement ---> the infamous "humming" noise7. Valve Guide Seal Replacement ---> blue white smoke in the morning8. Rear brakes needs new pad ---> getting low at 25%

The shop quoted me around $3000 for just items 1 - 6. Item 7 alone is $3000 and #8 is around 300.

I met up with David Saturday to evaluate his Q.

The idle is rhythmic miss, like a big vacuum leak although we didn't hear any hissing. the EGR function is correct, the valve starts to pulsate around 1500, manually opening the valve will bring down the revs or kill it.however, his aac is not under ecu control. i adjusted it out 1 complete turn ccw, and idle only gained about 50 rpm, so i think he has serious plenum gunkup. wiggled maf connector, no change. didn't take apart. maf connector has definitely been reworked at some point.2. and 3. confirmed.4. don't know. rough idle is also sorta like broken plug--prolly due for change although i noted several missing ornament screws over the coil pax, so someone has gone in there sometime.5. ps pump is a gooey mess. both rack boots torn.6. fuel pump is definite, the fpcu still has at least 2 speeds, as i could hear it kickup a notch while he cranked it.7. blue smoke imo is most likely raw fuel. i didn't see it cold, but on warm restart, it would puff some black when first started. due to the very rough idle, lot of unburned fuel.

looked inside valve cover, and cams are reasonably clean.some injectors (looks like 1,2,7,8 but not 100%) have been changed.

power is alright above 2500. no odd engine noises.trans shifts great for 166k.

active is flat. diagnostics read code 45 low fluid, even though fluid level is fine.

my evaluation is that he is looking at about 6000$.he likes the car and would like to keep it.

I'm sort of speaking for David and encouraging some additional thoughts/critique. I personally would also appreciate some other inputs on his rough idle as supplimented by my data today. I reminded him that he could drop 6 large on it and still have a host of issues that pop-up in the near term.

[Jeff Williams]

Is the rest of the car worth saving?

Take the car to the local dealership to read codes & give suggestions. Spend some time with the service writer, explaining your situation. Some really do want you to keep teh car on the road. Tell him you will ahve them do the repairs you can't do yourself. Get the field service manual, and do as much as you can on your own.

VC gaskets = $ 30Spark Plugs = $ 60Fuel Pump = $300TB Cleaning = $ 20Fuel Injectors = $600PS boots = $ 50PS Hoses = $200Cleaning sup = $ 50Brake pads = $ 35

Do it all yourself, and save $5,000 in labor.


Modified by Jeff Williams at 7:50 AM 6/19/2006

[texasoil]

The 'low oil level' warning for the active system will not shut off the functioning. It will keep the self diagnostics from reading out any other errors found. One can 'bypass' the level switch easily enough though. Check for a loose/missing connector on the bottom of the active reservoir. Those switches NEVER fail.