1994 Q45 DYNO!!!

[NOR*CAL 916]

hello there i dynoed my car two weeks ago i finally have time to post up the numbers. I had 3 runs, one run was with the stock ECU and the other 2 runs were with my JIM WOLF ECU. there was around 30 HP and 30 lb-ft torque increase from just the ecu alone. The only other mods i have are a custom made mandrel bent 3.5'' cold air intake, custom 2.5'' header back exhaust with 2.5'' high flow cats and x-pipe with JIC rear section muffler. Most of the gains were seen at the low to mid range powerband which very nice in these heavy a** cars. I cant figure out how to post up the dynojet print out so il give you the dyno runs. I can email anybody the sheet to post up the graphs.

RUN #1: 241.37 HP 228.03 TQ (STOCK)

RUN #2: 243.15 HP 251.91 TQ (JWT ECU)

RUN #3: 243.50 HP 257.15 TQ (JWT ECU)

[Q45tech]

257 lb/ft could be very near 330 flywheel lb/ft [+-5] depending on tires and dyno.Congradulations you are very near the limit without internals. [Cams].

Since fuel knock [probably] occurs when BMEP is highest at 4,000 rpm be sure the base timing is set precisely at 15 DegBTC.

The Helmholtz tuning of intake runners [length] controls the shape of the torque decline above 4500 - 4750 rpm so hard to get much more HP especially above 6,000 as this runner length chokes long before the heads do!

I went thru a 30 dyno run test back in 1994* before selecting my ecu [one of a kind by Dinan] which followed JWT curve pretty closely.If you can access a Consult data log the injector open time and ignition advance vs rpm.....................any sudden drop in advance from a steady rise after 5,000 rpm 26,27,28 and maybe 29 near new redline tells you that it is knocking.

CRITICAL to make sure coolant temperature does not exceed 194F on dyno otherwise you will lose about 5 HP per 5F OR WORSE.

* Still have and use the Dinan ECU 15 year later but went back to stock exhaust as the noise and it didn't even make a 0.1 second change in quarter mile.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Very nice!

In my observation the NICO ECU goes even further toward smoothing out the low-end curve. Compared to JWT and of course stock, NICO stage II feels even more consistent across the whole of the rev range.

I can host the graphs for you if you email them to me. Definitely interested in seeing them.

[paranoidjack]

Can us y33 guys get some love on the ECU front?

Any geniuses/entrepreneurs in here?

[NOR*CAL 916]

i just emailed you the dyno....yea disregaurd the other page i sent you haha im still at work

[elwesso]

Can us y33 guys get some love on the ECU front?

Any geniuses/entrepreneurs in here?

About the only way would be to install an aftermarket standalone ECU (easily a couple grand + tuning)... The stock Y33 ECU use a one time programmable microprocessor, not an EEPROM like the G50 and ECUs of pre 1996 use.... I dont know if they can be flashed or not..

The bottom line is this.. Nearly every OBDI car (pre 96) can gain probably 20HP minimum from an ECU upgrade. Since the upgrade to OBDII, the increased computing capabilities allows you to be more on the ragged edge compared to the stoopid OBDI ECUs.

Look at anyone offering an ECU for any 96+ car, you'll be lucky to get 10HP.. Most of them just fool the throttle by wire thing so that it feels like its going faster, even though you're not really gaining HP.. I remember reading some stuff for ECUs for the FX45 and they got 15HP.. If it was 90F before and 70F next time that could almost gain you 10HP..

So even if we could have an ECU for the Y33, you're not going to have the super cheap bolt on 30-40HP for Y33s like G50 guys get!

Anyway, to the OP, looks nice my friend! Did you make a typo on the stock vs JWT ECU? were you closer to 210WHP with the stock ECU?

Of course with dynos you really arent too concerned about the actual number (because different machines can vary) but the change in numbers as you do different things to hopefully increase power

[MinisterofDOOM]

Here are the graphs:

[oldmako]

It's too bad that the Q41 is at the end of it's rope as far as HP...however there are some mods which I have made which make my car the fastest and baddest car on the planet.

1. First I got rid of that lame trunk lid spoiler and got a REAL one from JC Whitney....think formula 1 or indy car wing size and you'll know what I mean. It sits up off the trunk about a foot and a half. I put stickers on the supports.....easily 20-30hp gain.

2. Remote gauges! I put a big stack of engine gauges on the inside corner pillar...you know right next to my face so they can't be missed. BIG ONES! They have real bright funky neon chartreuse lights and look super bad when cruising in the hood at night.

3. Chrome Fire extinguisher on the opposite chicks/shotgun homies pillar. Blocks some visibility, but when I'm in full blown gangster lean I can't see much anyway so MoxNix.

4. Velveteen side curtains. Black with rope tassles to hold them in place.

5. Insane 23" wheels and super low profile tires. They are so low in fact that they don't hold air. They're solid and tight! Think tricycle tires and you'll know what I mean. No need to fool with pesky air pressure gauges. They rubbed a bit so I customized the fenders. With all the sheet metal I cut off the car probably lost 100 pounds.

6. Grounding straps. Gotta have em...lightnin bad and fry yo azz.

7. Gillette Atra wiper blades. FIVE wipers per blade. Chartreuse. Sheeeeeeeee!

8. SIx inch diameter chromed tailpipe extensions. Das what Im talkin' about!

9. 7000db, 49 speaker sound system. I had to mount 6 extra batteries to power the sub, but well worth it. I have more money tied up in my sound system then I do in my hearing aids!

10. Blacklights under the car to illuminate the highway. Baaaaaaaaad. Worth probably only about 5hp but awesome....gnomsane??

11. 52" plasma screen inside mounted on the roof. Gots ta lean WAY back to watch that mother!

12. Courvoisier dispenser....nuff said.

I could go on, but some of my Ho's just showed up and they want to get all freaky in my ride......gotta split!

[elwesso]

23's?? PLZZZ im rollin on 55's

[qship96]

Kinda look like thats the look all the hoodrats are trying to emulate,huh? Big wheels with rubberband tires are soo yesterday.....who wants to look like they are piloting a stagecoach???

[Q45tech]

Not sure what to make of dyno graphs, as most supply RPM not MPH/

If you dynoed in 3rd gear then 4,000 rpm = 84 mph and 6,000 = 125 mph

[114 mph = ~ 5475 rpm]..............yoo low to get peak HP reading

7300 rpm redline would be 152 mph in 3rd gear

The torque and HP curves should cross over at 5252 rpm or 109 MPH not the 97 mph as shown........................some problem here!

[maxnix]

Not sure what to make of dyno graphs, as most supply RPM not MPH/

I am impressed you can even read them!

If TCU not disconnected, then who knows what was occurring?

Tires on rollers and open hoods for non-oem CAI with no air resistance do not always accurately depict road performance.

Go time yourself in successive two way runs with different ECU. Monitor coolant temperature, air temperature and barometric temperature. Then you will have a much better idea about any ECU differences.

Might switch back to OEM CAI for some runs if you are not scared of true data.

[NOR*CAL 916]

Does anybody else have dyno graphs to share? Im curious to see what other people have put down on the rollers.

[NOR*CAL 916]

I actually did have the OEM Intake on the first runs but it didnt produce peak HP figures as with my custom intake it did have the same torque powerband though. I only got a print out of the peak figures

[Q45tech]

An interesting exercise is to measure the pressure drop from atmosphere to the input of MAF [oem air box top].What you will see is almost zero LOSS until the rpms climb above 4,000 rpm.BECAUSE the engineers designed for peak torque and then applied the Nissan Rule to not degrade peak horsepower by more than 1% [ ~3 HP] while still meetimg emission and durability goals.

All the aftermarket ecu do is to remove the built in safety margin for bad gasoline and extended high rpm operation by leaning A/F ratio and advancing ignition timing to the limit [remove safety for WOT with regular octane].

Engineers always test for peak power then another group of engineers come in and derate the engine for safety. Then the Marketing types and the safety engineers fight it out for published HP and torque published numbers.

When the 1990 Q came out they magazine tested with [a HOT ECU] and got great numbers but the ecu installed for public use was 0.3 second slower when they found out HOW BAD our gasoline was across US.

Why early Q can do 14.8/97 mph in quarter mile with soft fast wearing tires and a HOT ecu and stock intake and exhaust.

[Rex]

Does anybody else have dyno graphs to share? Im curious to see what other people have put down on the rollers.

Search dyno in the Q45 sub-forum. there's about 10-12 threads.

[maxnix]

I actually did have the OEM Intake on the first runs but it didnt produce peak....

Run or stationary drum roll? Big difference.

HP is just a calculated number based on torque at a particualr rpm.

Torque peaks are not as important (except for where the engine peaks) as the total are under the curve from idle to redline.

[Q45tech]

Torque area under curve [simple calculus] only is useful in 1st gear after that note the engine stays above 4,000 rpm to 6500 rpm [tcu speed [program shift] or redline max manual shift.

If you know exact vehicle loaded weight and have ACCURATE acceleration times in each gear in 1/10th second increments you can accurately REVERSE engineer the dyno torque curve.

For example when you stop watch 50 [3700 rpm] >80 [[5920 rpm] accurately to have a sum of 58, 1/10th of a second intervals or 5.8 seconds in total. * [for a 90-93 Q] adjust for gear ratio changes in later transmisssion [94-01]

Consult can record 3 mph increments but only has a 4 second memory in 0.03 second increments [better than a stop watch]. but requires multiple runs in 2nd gear to cover time span interval.

Peak acceleration always occurs at peak torque rpm by definition assuming tire to road friction is linear and normal [not spinning]. A spiining tire is going nowhere !

[maxnix]

Torque area under curve [simple calculus] only is useful in 1st gear after that note the engine stays above 4,000 rpm to 6500 rpm [tcu speed program shift] or redline maximum manual shift.

But it is that area that is the measure of total power production. And in the case of diesels or even pushrod engines, the torque curve peak is lower in the rpm curve and the power band is narrower.

Enlightened explanation of reverse implications of actual road test shows why dynamometers (especially bench ones) are useful for development, but the rubber has to meet the road to get real world performance numbers at a particular place under particular conditions with particular fuel.

[mxr662]

You ever been down to Sac Raceway for test and tune. http://www.sacramentoraceway.c....html

I'd like to try it after replacing my front tires.

Rules http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs...k.pdf

[Q45tech]

With enough data points recorded and powerful enough computers, it is easy to totally simulate a vehicle to much better than 1% accuracy so that you can know top speed, quarter mile, and 0-60 becore you ever build the vehicle!

Desk computer accuracy to 1 mph and 0.1 secondDynomation 5 is a decent example where for $500 you can achieve better accuracy than most custom engine builders can mechanical reproduce.http://www.proracingsim.com/dynomationm ... do...l.pdf

Vehicle manufacturers have software for each tiny component..................all IDEAS are simulated before they are ever even in clay or plastic mockups.

[NOR*CAL 916]

Im actually goin this wednesday to try out my car if it all goes well. But test and tune is way to expensive wednesday nite is $15 and you can at least pull 3 runs depending on how many people attend. My friend took his 1995 q45 and ran a 15.1-15.3 consistently all stock so im hoping to break into the 14 second range.

[Q45tech]

With a reprogrammed ecu you can stay in second gear to 103-104 mph [04 gearing] and 7300 rpm.................since a shift to 3rd will waste too much time.

The best I achieved with ecu was 14.8/97 mph but that was 15 years ago when the engine was fresher.

[NOR*CAL 916]

is it better to manually shift the transmission or just stomp and go? My buddy got his times on a stomp and go method. This will be the first time i tak an automatic car to the track.

[Rex]

Getting into the 14's isn't easy, but can be done.

Rob reached 14.257 @ 99.(something) in Da Beast in Florida Spring time heat/humidity. He saw a pre-mod 226 and post-mod 274. Both on DynoJet units, IIRC.

[Q45tech]

Shift method depends on the condition of the transmission. How long each shift takes resolved to 0.01 seconds. Think about the variance of just 0.5 seconds between units and the 0.5 difference it makes in quarter mile time.

The TCU sends an ignition advance cut signal to ECU just before the shift starts and this continues until and just after begins a ramp up to normal.

With Consult you can view and data log the ignition advance in 0.03 second intervals compare that to speed signal and other parameters and you can easily observe the TRANSMISSION CONDITION.

I would start with setting transmission in 2nd position and floor it, not worrying about transmission.Whether you auto shift at 51 or manually shift at 54..........the difference is only 3 mph and the chances [manual shift] of accidentially hitting revlimiter will destroy you run.

Tires are critical as the runs can vary with tire temperature, psi, and friction coefficient. Tires with 1,000 miles on them are better than those with 20,000.............softer unheated cycled rubber. That alone can create a 0.2 second variance.

Gasoline level [22.5 gallons weighs 140 pounds] and driver weight,

Air temperature is critical since each 11F changes peak HP by 3 HP minimum and 10 HP drop is ~ 1 MPH in terminal speed drop.

Hopefully you can see how a 30 HP/torque boost from ECU can increase terminal speed by 3 MPH and decrease time by 0.3 seconds everything else equal.

The mistake made by most in a 90-93 Q is shifting into 3rd before quarter mile lights are crossed because without ecu mods 6500 occurs at 88 MPH and redline stock rev limiter is 93-94 mph.

Heck just the increased rev limiter allowing 7300 rpm [98-99 mph] in 2nd may be most of the quarter mile improvement. Probably a little of each more power and more time in gear.

Hopefully you can see that OEM TIRE diameter is critical in optimizing rpm and position on the track.

It is interesting to accurately measure starting PSI and how much a tire gains in psi and diameter in just 15 seconds in a quarter mile.

2% in loaded diameter is 2% in rpm [<150 rpm at 7300 rpm] so in theory the tires self protect you from hitting revlimiter as they gain near the end of run > 90 mph might add 2 mph to speed at which rev limiter engages.