1992 240SX Starting problems

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todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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I have done the required searching, but not knowing enough about the car limits me in what might be wrong or where to look.

A little info about myself is that I own a show winning 300ZX that some might have seen or heard about. I do a lot of "tinkering" on it, but I have a full time mechanic that does all the mechanics for me. I have never seen or touched a 240 before, so I don't even know where to start, although it looks less intimidating then the 300ZX. I have a large toolbox full of standard Craftsman tools that usually gets me in more trouble than my mechanic cares to get me out of. :D I do not have anything like Ohm meters or fuel pressure gauges. Who knows what I would blow up if I did. I grew up on domestic carburated 350's so try and tolerate my ignorance if I do not appear to know what I'm doing or talking about.

Let me explain. I bought this 1992 Nissan 240SX with roughly 120,000 miles on it (not sure as it's been estimated) as a beater/daily driver off a friend of mine. He had the car and said it idled rough with a little power loss but otherwise ran fine. He said it might be the MAF as he has replaced the plugs, cap, etc. I bought it and drove it for 2 weeks with the rough idle waiting for my mechanic to make some time to look at it. On Monday of this week, I ran the car pretty much empty on my way home from work being too lazy and tired to stop and get gas. The next morning I stopped at the gas station and put in 1/4 tank and headed off to work. Took it to lunch, and drove back home with no problems.

Wednesday morning comes and I jump in to go to work and it doesn't start. It turns over with plenty of power and sounds like its just out of gas. I tried several times for about 30 seconds each time but nothing, not even a sputter like it wanted to start. I push in the clutch and back it out of the driveway and onto the street where I roll it in front of my house. My driveway has about a 35% incline and the street has about a 10% decline if that matters. I take the Z to work and when I get home I jump in to see if it would start. It starts right up without hesitation and runs fine. I drive it into the garage thinking it was just flooded or something and forget about it. Thursday morning I get in to go to work and it doesn't start again. I decide to stay home and see if I can figure it out since it was in the garage anyway.

First thing I did was check the ECU and I got a 55 code (no problems). Hmmm...don't think so. So I pulled the first two plug wires and notice cracking along the side of plug wire #1. I assume this is partly the cause of the rough idle and loss of power. I pull both plugs and check for oil/gas and they are clean, so I know its not a flooding issue. I put the plug in the plug wire and turn the engine over and see plenty of spark. I then locate the fuel filter located on the passenger side fenderwell and pull the fuel line that runs from the top of the filter to the engine. There wasn't even pressure in the line when I removed the hose. I again turn the car over and no fuel comes out of the line. So that got me thinking it was a clogged fuel filter. Running low of fuel, picked something up off bottom of tank and clogged it into the filter. Went and bought a new fuel filter and replaced it. Tried to start it again and once again, nothing.

Here's where it gets weird. I then back the car out of the garage and down the driveway and back onto the street in front of the house. I leave it sit for a couple hours and when I come back, it starts right up, like it will only start sitting out in the street. I think maybe bad gas/not enough gas, etc, so I head down to the gas station and put another 1/2 tank of premium in it. I did not shut it off and when I was driving it back home, it was a little sluggish at times. Kind of an on/off type feel. I would take off from the light with little power, and then it would kick in, go for a little while and then die off again. While stopped, it seemed to run better at idle and when I tried to go into higher RPM's, it would cause it to faulter. I feel it barely made it home as it was having a tough time running, but not like it wanted to die out. Like I said, at idle it seemed ok. I backed it into the driveway thinking maybe the decline had something to do with it starting, but after awhile of sitting in the driveway, I tried to restart it and nothing.

Not sure if it matters, but the air temp in the morning was mid 60's and the afternoon/evening was mid 80's.

Sorry for the length, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could. I'm thinking maybe its the fuel pump, but I'm not sure. I can't find any technical info on where its even located let alone some easy trouble shooting tips. I'm looking for something to look at, or ideas on what it could be. If you think its the fuel pump too, any write ups on how to replace? Or if its something else, how would I go about fixing it. Although I'm not stupid, please answer me like you would a 10 year old. I'm looking for straightforward and simple terms that I can easily understand because as previously mentioned, I have no experience with these engines and its pretty foreign to me just looking at.


NISTECH
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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Damn now thats thorough!! Beauty here is you have already diagnosed it. You do not have fuel pressure. You are correct the pump is likely bad. You could go a step further and check for voltage at the pump when it wont start, but i am thinking your pump is just weak. Open the hatch and lift the carpet/floor lining. Under that you should see an access plate with a wire harness going through it held in by 3 or 4 bolts. remove the access plate and you will see the fuel tank. disconnect the 2 fuel lines [mark which one goes where] unplug the harness, remove the 6 or 8 8mm bolts lift the ring off then pull that unit from the tank. attached to it will be the fuel sending unit and the fuel pump. carfull you dont bend the float arm when pulling it out. To test for voltage to it when it wont start stop at the point you have access to the electrical connector before you remove the fuel lines and use a volt meter to test for power to the pump wire. I know you stated you dont have a meter so you could just hang a part[ the fuel pump] and see if thats your problem.

todamgood4U
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Car: My Z
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Thank you! I went down this morning and purchased a fuel pump. The price for the pump alone was about $120.00 and when I got home and started to assemble it, I realized there was a part missing. The little screen/pickup that goes on the end doesn't come off the old one and a new one is not included. I had to go back and purchase that for another $16.00. Took my time and made sure everything was right and then I started the car. Fired right up and drove great.

I took pictures of the install hoping to do a technical write up and my thoughts on it in the next couple days (should I post it in the 240 technical forum?). It was pretty straight forward, but who knows when the next guy comes along with the same problem who is semi-technically challenged and doesn't know where to begin. Maybe it'll save you from having to answer this question again if they do the legwork to search first.

So again, thank you for taking the time to answer me and saving me a lot of time guessing. Your help was much appreciated.

NISTECH
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Your welcome,where did you buy the pump?

todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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I went to the closest place possible...Kragen. I was told it was a good price and that if I found it cheaper they would match the price plus 10%, so I figured I had nothing to lose.

NISTECH
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when you do the write up on the R&R send it to Nick the article manager and he will put it in nissan articles where all the other DIY's are.

NISTECH
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I was just wondering if ya went to the dealer I happen to work for one in the sacramento area.In the service dept.

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ArcherV20
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Car: 1995 240SX
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Ahh! Finally I found a post related to my problem.

Nistech! Help me. The same problem is happening with me however it's a tad different.

Well...actually it's exactly the same, the car started on the street but not in the garage! You can imagine the coincidence here :P.

In any case, the car started on the street...ran, bogged out, then died completely. It would fire and start again to do the same thing, the car dies after ignition in about 3 to 4 seconds.

Pushing it back into the garage and checking the next morning, the car won't even start. I haven't begun to diagnose the problem because of time restraints but I wanted to get a few questions in now.

#1: What steps should I take to diagnose the problem? I'm assuming it's a fuel problem but I've had other assumptions like a starter, or a battery etc.

#2: If being the fuel pump, I'm aware that there is a system with 2 pumps? The intake and the inline. How am I sure which one to replace? I've located the one in my hatch trunk, and if it's as easy as you say, then I'm hoping it's that one that is causing the problems.

#3: Consider that the fuel pump in the hatch has been destroyed. Could you go into further detail about the removal? I follow the instructions for taking the plate off, after disconnecting the hoses (and marking them) I kind of lose you..

What your saying is disconnect the hoses, then I remove the bracket without bending this "float arm" - this will disengage and free up the part? If so - it sounds like a pretty bolt off bolt on job. Is there any precautions or tips you can give me? Thank you so much.

NISTECH
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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#1 Follow the steps in this thread him and I discussed.#2 no nissan I know has 2 fuel pumps and you car certainly doesnt.#3 I covered in my post you need to remove the 6 or 8 8mm bolts holding the ring around the unit to the tank.

just the precation of not bending the float arm when you take it out.

This may not be your problem so make sure you diagnose it first with a fuel pressure gauge to be sure your loosing fuel pressure.

#4 when you have a problem with your car and you come here for assistance please start your own thread and not threadjack someone elses. That way you dont mow down a conversation 2 other people are having:D

todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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NISTECH wrote:I was just wondering if ya went to the dealer I happen to work for one in the sacramento area.In the service dept.


Argghh...no way. Is it the one down off Arden? Thats the one I always go to with my Z. I never bothered going to the dealer. My girlfriend works next to Kragen and so I just stopped in there just to get a price thinking they wouldn't even have it. I also know my car isn't worth anything purchased from the dealer...haha. Seriously, I paid less than $1,000.00 for the car, so putting $150.00 into for the pump seemed like more than I should have spent. However, I have been driving it the last couple days and it runs 100x better than when I bought it, so I'm thinking the pump was part of the problem. Weak pump + arcing #1 plug wire = rough idle and poor power/acceleration. Now I just need to find a cheap plug wire. I don't want the whole set...atleast not for the $80.00 I was quoted.

Well, I got to the write up tonight as I saw someone else with the same issues as I had. I hope this helps out. Click the link and read the step by step with pictures on how I did it. Easy, easy fix!

http://www.z4u2nv.com/240SX/FuelPump/fuelpump.htm

So who is Nick and how do I send this to him? I wasn't exactly sure how to post pictures in the forum, so I made a page on my site for it. Maybe you could pass the link along and if he wants to take the source code (or however its written on the forum) and use it here, thats fine with me. Whatever gets it out there for others to read.

NISTECH
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I work at the one in folsom. but I did work at the one by arden about 6 yrs ago.

That is an awesome write up. I will have nick take a look at it and put it in the articles section.

todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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Ew, I have not had good experiences with the Folsom one. I went there looking to buy a 350Z about 6-8 months ago and I was lied to and treated like crap. I was PISSED and walked out. The sales girl actually had the nerve to call me up and ask me to come back to discuss the sale. Pffft...don't think so. Although, that doesn't include the service dept. I've needed several parts for my Z and have gone out of my way to purchase elsewhere, including the one all the way in Roseville. Maybe I'll stop back in next time and bypass the sales dept. :) Who should I ask for?

NISTECH
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if your looking for parts you will need to go through the sales dept. to get to the parts dept Greg or mark can help ya. I am back in service.

I dont really deal with sales people much. I generally dont like salesman. Sorry to hear that happened. How long ago did that happen?

NISTECH
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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BTW nick is gonna make your write up an article with in the next day or so.

todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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Oh so you actually turn wrenches there?! Do you do side work by any chance? I was thinking you were a service writer at the counter. My grand experience happend about 6-8 months ago I think it was. I was in there looking at a blue track that somebody was driving everyday and it was exactly what I was looking for, but they were trying to talk me into a silver one because the sales guy didn't want to give up the blue one. Then we went inside to talk and thats when things got ugly. I ended up walking out with the sales girl in tow trying to chum up to me and asking me about my Z and giving me a sales brochure for the 350. She called me 2 days later appologizing and asking me if I was still interested in the 350. I just hung up. I think it was the worst service I have ever gotten in my life from anyone. I don't remember her name, but I'm sure she's not there anyway.

Thanks for getting Nick to do that up for me. I hope it helps others out.

NISTECH
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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no they canned most of the sales staff that was there about that time. We have whole new crews up there now. Whole new management too.

I am the lead tech in the shop. I have 4 other guys under me as my crew. I have been there since they opened the place up back in 99.Have seen many people come and go in that time. The entire sales department does not have one person up there that was there when I started. My self and one other tech are the only 2 thechs that were there when it opened. I have been working for nissan about 9 yrs now actually 9 yrs this month. currently I am at engine specialist level with nissans certification program.

I dont do a lot of side work unless its minor stuff. I dont get into any engine tear down stuff on the side at all.

todamgood4U
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 pm
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That's cool. Atleast its nice to know I know someone fairly close to me if I have a question. A lot of times my mechanic is just too busy and I'm on my own until he makes time. I'm pulling the engine in my Z in the next week or so, but its all foreign to me, so we'll see. I have friends in the Z community who have done it, but I'm looking to get my hands dirty and try and understand that engine a little. I'm also looking at rerouting a lot of the wiring that runs along the sides and in front to clean it up a little.

Well, glad I found this forum. Looks to be a real benefit for both my cars. :)

NISTECH
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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have fun pulling that engine and remember patience is a virtue...lol


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