1990 Q45 Power Steering Problem

[frenetic]

I started up the car this afternoon and heard a belt squeak for the first time. Thought maybe it was just something related to running the A/C. Drove about a mile when I smelled something burning, possibly like rubber, like when you fry a vacuum cleaner belt, but much stronger. I was driving straight at the time so it took a couple seconds for me to realize that my power steering was dead. It wasn't like losing power steering and having to strong arm the wheel like when you drive a car from the 60's, but I mean I had the turning radius of a cruise ship. I was lucky to park. Anyways, parked and opened the hood and first thing I saw was my power steering belt broken and off the guides. It also seems to be attached to the fan, so it was a good thing I stopped when I did.

Before I jump in and just change the belt, I want to say I have had a slow power steering fluid leak since I bought the car, and service records date back to 2005 indicating that. I have been meaning to fix it but haven't had cash lately so that's why I have postponed. I will be replacing the belt tomorrow and hoping I can drive like that until I fix the leak, because I need to get to and from work somehow.

My question is, before I JUST change the belt, are there easy things to check while I am in there that might tell me if something else is broken too? (besides the leak, which I will locate when I am in there) - What are the points I should check before I try and start the car with a new belt again.

[frenetic]

Got in there and noticed the idler pulley for the PS and fan was dirty. The pulley on the PS pump turned smoothly, the idler pulley, despite it's name, did not. Still pinpointing the location of my fluid leak though, the hose from the fluid inlet down to where I can no longer see it is wrapped in heat shielding and looks clean, so it's somewhere between the fuel pump and the part I can't see. -i hope-

[Q451990]

It sounds like you have it under control. The belt broke because of the frozen idler pulley.

I would clean everything with degreaser and then try to pinpoint your leak. It's very likely that the low pressure hoses from your p/s resivoir to the pump are leaking. Mine have started to leak - and I have new hoses on the way from IOS.

If it's a high pressure hose leaking it will show up like a shower when the steering wheel is held to the lock - just make sure your assistant doesn't hold it there too long or you can damage the pump. The FSM tells you how long to hold it...

Heath

[qship96]

How many hours labor to change the steering hoses? Does rack need to be dropped to access hoses?

[frenetic]

How many hours labor to change the steering hoses? Does rack need to be dropped to access hoses?

I would like to know as well. There are some hoses you can reach by just looking under the car, but I'm not sure what will need to be removed to replace all of them

[frenetic]

Here was the cost of my parts: Belt was 26 dollars from NAPA and the pulley was 84 dollars from the dealership. Good price I think! Going to pull the pulley off now and see why it's seized
Modified by frenetic at 3:28 PM 3/28/2009

[qship96]

All idler pullys sieze eventually- the bearings wear out. Best practice is to replace all 3 idlers at the same time while you have belts off to avoid the issue when the other 2 finally do the same thing. On old Q it is all about "bunching" labor cost/time by replacing parts as a system, and before they fail and you incur additional costs of towing or purchasing more belts

[frenetic]

After removing the idler pulley, it was obvious immediately what the problem was. Someone had previously neglected an installation of a dust cover on the rear of the pulley, so the bearing was exposed. I notice in diagrams of the pulley that it is not there, but the whole bearing was covered in grime and dirt, and my new idler pulley came with it. The bearing was completely shot because of all that dirt.

More talk of the extra cover/washer per this thread zerothread?id=137884
Modified by frenetic at 6:39 PM 3/28/2009

[frenetic]

Question, before I start hammering on s***. I got the front belt off by loosening the pulley tensioner, and now am trying to get the power steering belt on, however, I don't have enough slack in the belt and for whatever reason, loosening the pulley tensioner is not moving the pulley. The screw is just coming out. I gave a quick tap with a small mallet and the pulley didn't move at all, is this the right idea? Should I just get in there and do what I can to force the pulley up? Or is there a quicker way to get the belt on...

[Q451990]

The pully only moves up and down when the center nut is loose - if that's the issue.

Heath

[frenetic]

The pully only moves up and down when the center nut is loose - if that's the issue.

Heath

This concerns me then... I got the front belt off simply by loosening the tensioner. Think I got a few bolts to check

It was raining bad so I didn't go back out to fix it yet.

[frenetic]

FOLLOWUP:

Fixed it sunday evening, drove for 30 minutes or so that night, and to work this morning (monday). This morning I put a half tank of gas in, and after that (not something I thought about at the time) it sort of stuttered when I accelerated. Ran fine the rest of the way to work.

About an hour and a half later on a break, I tried to drive somewhere, I made it 3 blocks and the car died. Engine cut off, electronics remained on. Restarted after 5 seconds of cranking. Flipped a b**** and got back to work. Did the same thing 2 hours later. After work I decided to wait for my dad to show up to follow me home since it is about a 10 mile trip. I sat there with the car on, and not doing a damn thing, just idle, and it died. I restarted it and it ran for 15 minutes or so just fine, no problems, idle.

I shut it off and restarted it and it wouldn't start immediately, then finally did. I kept it running, when it dies and I restart it within 5 minutes of it dying, the check engine light comes on and stays on. I was able to drive it home, with the check engine light on and my RPMs limited to 3000. It bucked when it tried to die and all I could do was keep my foot on the gas at ~1.5k RPM the whole way home.

There was minor belt squeal when I listened under the hood with the throttle open to about 2k-3k rpm...

My dad suggested it was bad fuel, and when he said that it clicked that it began about the time I put gas in this morning. BUT that doesn't explain the belt squeal, which could just be an aside... it was a popular gas station so it's hard to believe it would be dirty gas. I put injector cleaner in it nonetheless.

ANYONE got any ideas? Will not be driving the beast until I get it fixed for sure so don't worry about that

[fixer]

SEE IF YOU CAN SCAN FOR DTC, yuo symptoms point to bad gas. too much alcohol in gasolene

[jimbyjimb]

Check MAF and CAS connectors closely, clean with wire brush and/or sandpaper and contact cleaner and drive it for a while and see what happens.