1990 Maxima: spark timing problem, no power

[slipnfall]

Hi Folks, I'm at work, so I have to keep this short and to the point. I bought this car a few weeks back and have just been giving it a good one over. It appeared that as-bought, the distributor was off a tooth: here's what I did to check timing:

1-Warm car up sufficiently2-Race 2-3 times3-Let idle for 1-2min

When I initially checked the timing, it was *very* advanced: if I had to guess maybe 50-60° BTDC. Car would idle but was very rough.

So I attempted to adjust the distributor, but 'ran out' of adjustment. So I slowly pulled the distributor out, and rotated the rotor one tooth (opposite direction I was trying to adjust). I offset the adjustment to compensate, and went back to checking the timing. Engine ran *much* smoother.

At first I couldn't get the distibutor to *advance* enough: the best i could do was 0°! I messed with it some more, moving a tooth back and forth, untill for whatever reason I was finally able to get it into the 15° range.

However the more I advance it, the more rough the engine gets. I left it at around 10°, and went to checking the idle.

Turned the ECU screw in (CW IIRC), and started to adjust. After a point the engine began to 'surge' consistenty: 1400rpm for 1-2seconds, then 1000rpm for 2-3seconds.

Turned the screw back the other way, and turned off the car.

I took it for a test drive, and once I got on the highway, the car *really* lacked power. If I would push the pedal down on the interstate, it *barely* felt like it was accellerating: almost as if I was just coasting along.

Any ideas? I pulled the IACV and cleaned it, replaced a good number of vac lines (and a control valve). Cleaned/checked the EGR: manually activated makes engine bog.

Idle vac is aroudn -17Hg. Ohm'd injectors: 12-14ohm. Zeroed TPS.

Thanks for reading, if there's anything I can clarify please ask!

[slipnfall]

I've experianced the surging before on my '92 240sx with KA24DE: both actually surge a little more frequent than the seconds listed.

The Maxima did this when coming to a stop, and 240sx seemed to be OK after re-plugging in the TPS.

Is this knock retard perhaps?

[boriquaS13]

Wow this may be a little trickey to resolve online but will give it a shot sounds like all you did was really retard the timing. Put it back were it was and check for vacuum leaks and most imprtantly make sure that your timing belt was installed correctly. If the person before you had the t- belt replaced and was not installed correctly it will directly affect ignition timing because the distributor is driven by the camshaft. Btw it is a sohc right? Anyways check it out and repost.

[slipnfall]

Well the trouble is if I put it back to where it was (way advanced), the engine has a really bad idle: engine shakes a bit and misses, carries on. I don't know that I really want to test drive an engine that's possibly over-advanced, on 1/3tank of old gas (BTW I've since added about 1/2 tank of premium plus some sea foam)

The timing belt was done recently, but how could they have screwed that up? I mean if mechanical timing was off the thing wouldn't run, and/or I'd be smashing valves. The crank pulled is keyed, so the belt would have to be off.

I considered pulling the timing cover off, but it sounds like there's quite a few o-rings, etc behind their. I guess that's the only true way of knowing... or find TDC on compression in #1 and see if I'm at 0° on the pulley. If I'm on the exhaust stroke the pulley should be 180° off of 0° correct?

Thanks!Jamie

[boriquaS13]

They could have gotten the t-belt off one tooth which I believe could actually be up to 15 degrees difference. Get a compression tester and put it in cyl #1 now have a buddy bump the motor over until you see the gauge move then you know your at #1 compression stroke. Now I believe there are 6 to 8 slashes on your crank pully for checking ignition timing. I can't remember but 2 slash from the left is TDC (confirm this), now turn the engine by hand line up the mark (TDC) and pull the upper timing belt cover and you will be able to see the cams and marks. Haven't done a t-belt in one of these in a long time but if my memory serves me correctly there should be some stamped lines in the cover and on the cam gears for t-belt alignment. They should line up, if in fact they are off you need to redu the t-belt. Good luck keep posting see if we can't get your max straight.

[slipnfall]

Hey I really appreciate your help: I went ahead and found TDC the old fashioned way. You must have read my mind! I used the rotor to get close to cylinder one (it's got to be close, or it wouldn't run), and used a compression gauge. Obviouslly it wouldn't hold compression, but it was enough to verify I was on the compression stroke. From there a wooden spoon. I landed almost exactly on 0°... just a hair off, but I'm sure I wasn't 100% TDC.

The pulley has seven marks: left to right it should be 0° to 30°.

I then compared my rotor to the cap: the rotor was past the 1st cylinder electrode, telling me it would be firing before the cylinder reached TDC.

I hear that these engines have a lot of trouble with injectors: I ohmed them all out: 12-14ohm, but I know that's not difinitive.

I'm in a huge pinch to get this car on the road now, since my other car(daily) is selling much sooner than I expected. I'm considering bringing it to the dealership just to save some time. I wonder if it would be worth it for them to check the injectors further (using pressure drops).

What I really need to do is go out and run it and pull the codes: I don't have a dedicated battery so they aren't ever retained... There seems to be quite a few 'active' test modes in the ECU, which indicate O2 sensor, etc.

It's got Bosch Platinum plugs in it, yuk. My other Nissan carried on like crazy until I put the NGK BKRE-11's back in.

[slipnfall]

Also FYI: from what I remember out of the FSM, there's a dot on the crank gear and a dot on the cover down below also.

[slipnfall]

bump I'm not giving up just yet!

[loekee]

I just went through the timing setup on my 92 Max and if your sure the timing is set and at TDC you can line up the lower crank pulleys first mark on the left (0 degrees) with the mark on the timing cover and that should align crank at TDC for sure.

Next you can pull out your distributor and there is a small dot on the end of the gear (not the pin through the shaft but an actual punch mark) that should line up with a mark on the upper shaft (cant miss it) If the mark is reverse you have your ending at TDC on the exaust stroke.

Dont worry about it moving when you reinsert the distributor, its made to align on #1 after insertion) thats the nissan fsm guide to aligning it.

Now it should defitnitly be at #1 firing properly. If not your belt or a cam is off or there is another problem...

[slipnfall]

Yep I discovered that in the FSM last night... handy to know! I always just eyeballed the rotor, and made sure I had enough adjustment room both ways.

I'm picking up a battery in a few minutes, getting those crappy bosch plugs out of there, and we'll go from there. At least then I can pull codes, let the ECM help me out a bit.

I cleaned all the injector plugs: they were *all* corroded. Anyone know how many CC injectors these are, and what other 'donor' vehicals I can swipe them from (mitsubishi or similar?). I hear that the injector design was improved for the later years: can I swap those over?

It sucks not having a diagnostic interface to use! I'm spoiled I suppose.

[slipnfall]

Well I threw a battery in it, lined up the distributor, but was still way advanced (25 or so degrees). Pulled it out, rotated a tooth, and re-checked. Timing OK then.

So I took it out for a test drive: it drives fine for about a block, but then boom, all of a sudden it falls on its face, similar to how it did on the highway. Absolutely no power for accelleration. About a block away on the way back the oil light started coming on for a split second. As soon as I got it into the driveway I did a compression test: 172psi on all but one, which is 139psi.

I don't think this is really new per se: it did this on the last drive... good power/accelleration on the first block or two, then none whatsoever.

[slipnfall]

'Went and pulled the codes: the only thing stored was a 13: CTS. The connector is pretty bad on that, and I was pretty sure I measured it's resistance. I'll give it another 1-over and see how it goes.

Thx,'slip

[boriquaS13]

Keep us posted, also it does seem to have low compresion in that 1 cyl. they should all be within 10% of each other. That could definatly be your rough idle.

[slipnfall]

Well initially I thought s%*t, no wonder I'm lacking in power. However it would run that way *all* the time, not OK while still warming up.

I wonder if it has something to do with the transmission: it seems to shift great when cold, but as soon as it gets warm (co-incidentaly), it's extremely hard to move the shifter and get into gear?? The pilot bearing is obviously shot: it's louder than the engine/exhaust when cold, so if that's any indication of the 5spd condition... (although in my experiance many times people ship changing it because it can be such a PITA)

[boriquaS13]

Did you check the fluid level in the trans, condition of the fluid?