1990 240sx won't start

[sittin_slidewayz]

Ok well I bought this car not to long ago and everything was great.I stopped at a store one day got back in and the car would not start,it would make the sound like it's trying to start but it will not go.I have changed the spark plugs,changed the fuel filter,changed the air filter,checked to make sure all four spark plugs are getting spark,and I can hear the fuel pump priming when I turn the power on.If anybody has any other thoughts I would greatly appreciate it,I am at a total loss.

[vancouverbc]

Could be the battery have you tried jump starting it? after that, hook it up directly to positive of battery to see if it starts. while in neutral, as it will start without key.

[sittin_slidewayz]

Well I just heard something that I did not hear before,I tapped the starter and when I went to crank the car still the same problem but now when I step on the gas or pull the cable at the throttle body the starter seems to hum,and not a normal hum it sounds like a rather loud electrical hum.It only make the noise when I step on the throttle or pull the cable a little bit,if I pull it farther the noise stops and I hear the regular electric sound under the hood.Does this mean I need a new starter,I have not heard this sound before.Thank you for the suggestion vancouverbc,I have tried that along with charging the battery and still no change.
Modified by sittin_slidewayz at 8:09 AM 5/12/2007

[sittin_slidewayz]

Ok well one more thing now I found this and I don't know where it goes,any thoughts?(hope the pics show up)

The piece that is in my hand has a red wire with blue stripe and a black wire.I don't know where it goes.

Modified by sittin_slidewayz at 10:47 AM 5/12/2007
Modified by sittin_slidewayz at 10:50 AM 5/12/2007

[vancouverbc]

Well I just heard something that I did not hear before,I tapped the starter and when I went to crank the car still the same problem but now when I step on the gas or pull the cable at the throttle body the starter seems to hum,and not a normal hum it sounds like a rather loud electrical hum.It only make the noise when I step on the throttle or pull the cable a little bit,if I pull it farther the noise stops and I hear the regular electric sound under the hood.Does this mean I need a new starter,I have not heard this sound before.Thank you for the suggestion vancouverbc,I have tried that along with charging the battery and still no change.

Modified by sittin_slidewayz at 8:09 AM 5/12/2007

Is it trying to turn over the engine or is the starter motor just humming?The starter has a solenoid which operates an arm that connects starter to engine. SOunds like the solenoid is not working or the arm is bent. The starter motor gets its power from ignition and the solenoid gets its power from a line that goes directly to battery positive(this line goes from battery to starter and then to solenoid). If you have hooked up positive directly to both the starter motor(plug) and the solenoid that eliminates alot of possibilites. Do you hear solenoid clicking?

I think the solenoid and starter are one unit for the 1990 so you have to replace whole unit. I assume the solenoid is seized or the line going to battery has problem or the line from starter to solenoid is a problem.

[vancouverbc]

Not sure about the wire. Is it the oil pressure switch?

[sittin_slidewayz]

I took my jumper cables and ran it from the positive terminal on the battery to the wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter.When I did this I heard the starter make a sound like it was spinning inside.Does this mean the starter is ok.Oh yea and you were correct for the 90's the starter and solenoid are sold together.Thanks for the help.

[sittin_slidewayz]

Well it's not the starter.I took it out and had it tested but the test said it was ok,it maid a very loud grinding sound but the computer says it passed.So I guess I am back to square one.I bought some engine starter spray to see if it will respond to that so we'll see.

[vancouverbc]

I took my jumper cables and ran it from the positive terminal on the battery to the wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter.When I did this I heard the starter make a sound like it was spinning inside.Does this mean the starter is ok.Oh yea and you were correct for the 90's the starter and solenoid are sold together.Thanks for the help.

Supply 12v+ to the wire that you can unplug close to starter. Your car should start without a key. If car does not start, you have a bad starter or solenoid so you will have to replace starter unit. The only exception would be if you had a weak battery or ground or if the wire from positive of battery to solenoid is compromised in some way. sounds, though, like your solenoid is sticking.

The spinning sounds like the starter works so I guess the humming sound is the solenoid trying to engage. I think you powered the starter when you gave 12v+ to the wire between starter and solenoid. The solenoid is powered first and engages the engine and then the starter motor is powered. since your solenoid is seized , power never gets to starter motor when you turn ignition key.

[sittin_slidewayz]

Supply 12v+ to the wire that you can unplug close to starter. Your car should start without a key. If car does not start, you have a bad starter or solenoid so you will have to replace starter unit. The only exception would be if you had a weak battery or ground or if the wire from positive of battery to solenoid is compromised in some way. sounds, though, like your solenoid is sticking.

The spinning sounds like the starter works so I guess the humming sound is the solenoid trying to engage. I think you powered the starter when you gave 12v+ to the wire between starter and solenoid. The solenoid is powered first and engages the engine and then the starter motor is powered. since your solenoid is seized , power never gets to starter motor when you turn ignition key.

There are two wires that go to the solenoid one is the one from the battery that gets screwed onto the solenoid with a nut and the other one is a smallerwire that clips to another wire.Which one are you talking about?Should I have the car in neutral and take the key out?

[vancouverbc]

There are two wires that go to the solenoid one is the one from the battery that gets screwed onto the solenoid with a nut and the other one is a smallerwire that clips to another wire.Which one are you talking about?Should I have the car in neutral and take the key out?

Yes, must be in neutral. . Dont you have something that unplugs close to the starter? Its the wire that comes from the ignition switch(via interlock relay). Mine is black with yellow stripe. Its not the wire from the battery as that is continuous 12v+.
Modified by vancouverbc at 5:52 PM 5/13/2007

[vancouverbc]

zerothread?id=249966

[sittin_slidewayz]

Yea I did it to the little wire and it was the same result,the engine will turn over but no start.I'm guessing it's not the starter so any other thoughts?

[vancouverbc]

Yea I did it to the little wire and it was the same result,the engine will turn over but no start.I'm guessing it's not the starter so any other thoughts?

my knowledge base ends at starter circuit. try this article.

zerothread/160219

[vancouverbc]

To clarify: Transmission must be in neutral or car will move. The key would have to be in the "on" position for car to start. (assume it will start, though, for safety)The key doesnt have to be in the start position is what i had meant to say.

[sittin_slidewayz]

Well I have been doing some searching and I have realized when I turn the car to the on position I don't see a check engine light,I have read that if this happens the ecu may not be getting power,but would I still get all the function on the car that I have(i.e.spark,fuel,engine turn over)if the ecu had no power?

[vancouverbc]

Well I have been doing some searching and I have realized when I turn the car to the on position I don't see a check engine light,I have read that if this happens the ecu may not be getting power,but would I still get all the function on the car that I have(i.e.spark,fuel,engine turn over)if the ecu had no power?

I will check my car but i dont think engine check light is on when key is in on position. and you wouldnt have those functions without ecu.

[vancouverbc]

Ok, the check engine light is on for me. Does the bulb ever light up? just eliminating burnt bulb possibility.

[sittin_slidewayz]

I never see a check engine light I don't even know where it is on the instrument panel,but I did see another thing while searching about checking the red and green flashing lights on ecu for problem codes.I did this test and the lights worked fine,I got code 55 which is supposed to mean there is "No malfunction" so I guess this means it's not the ecu,i don't know.

[vancouverbc]

The computer can fail in a thousand different ways and still show code 55.

Im not sure of the reasons why cars dont start if they are getting strong crank. The crank can be weak because of weak battery, bad ground, or bad connections/relays etc.

[sittin_slidewayz]

So should I maybe start trying to change relays?I was under the impression that if it was a relay such as fuel pump relay or some of the others that I would not have the functions that I have.When I checked my spark it was an orange color,should it be different?When I try to crank I can smell fuel that is unburnt so I would think I'm getting fuel to the engine.Where is the engine light located so I can try and see if its just a burnt bulb?Thanks for all the help.

[vancouverbc]

So should I maybe start trying to change relays?I was under the impression that if it was a relay such as fuel pump relay or some of the others that I would not have the functions that I have.When I checked my spark it was an orange color,should it be different?When I try to crank I can smell fuel that is unburnt so I would think I'm getting fuel to the engine.Where is the engine light located so I can try and see if its just a burnt bulb?Thanks for all the help.

my 1991 check light is first light left of instrument display. orange light. i think it says engine. the next light to left of that one seems to do nothing. your ecu lights are working which are the same as the check light so it is either burnt out or you dont know which one it is.

As far as relays, I just meant the interlock relay. If you connected wire directly to postive with key in on position, your relay is not the problem.You could exchange the egi and egi pump relays to see if symptoms change. i would double check battery cables are tight and battery is good .Maybe start new thread in some other forums. Better check your ground between negative of battery and car chasis with multimeter reading resistance.

[vancouverbc]

This is trouble shooting guide from Chilton. Has not been helpful in past.

Hard starting under at normal temp.: 6,1,2,4,7,10,17,19,18,20

Symptom definitions:===============1.ensure fuel pressure within spec2.perform appropriate test in injector malfunction diagnostic chart3.inspect throttle body ports and valves for deposits, wear or plugging4.check for spark using spark tester5.Check idle speed control circuit. 6.Ensure battery is fully charged and maintains at least 9.6 volts during cranking.7.check spark plug gap and fouling8. ensure no vacuum leaks in intake system9.Check fast idle system.10.check egr control valve operation11.Check EGR control valve solenoid operaton.12. check engine compression13. disconnect exhaust gas sensor and monitor change in driveability. if it improves, replace sensor. if not, go to 16.14.Remove canister purge line from intake and test drive vehicle.15.Remove vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator and monitor for symptom change.16.enter self-diagnosis mode 11 and monitor exhaust gas sensor operation17.check ecu harness connector18.try a good known ecu19.Check ECU power source and ground circuit.20.Check timing belt for proper installation(V6 models)21.Check throttle linkage operation.22.Try a known good airflow meter.23.Check for intake valve deposits.24.Check engine temperature sensor25.perform power balance test

[bgoodwill]

Have you tried starting it with the accelerator held to the floor? My '92 suddenly acted this way a few months ago, would just crank and crank unless you held the pedal clear to the floor. Had a tiny vacuum hose off behind the engine - at or near the EGR, can't remember for sure which one it was now. Hard to see because everything is close to firewall back there.

[sittin_slidewayz]

Have you tried starting it with the accelerator held to the floor? My '92 suddenly acted this way a few months ago, would just crank and crank unless you held the pedal clear to the floor. Had a tiny vacuum hose off behind the engine - at or near the EGR, can't remember for sure which one it was now. Hard to see because everything is close to firewall back there.

Yea I've tried that and I can smell gas under the hood when I do that so I'm assuming I'm just flooding the engine and still there is no start.I'm thinking maybe my spark is weak since it seems to be an orange color so I'm thinking maybe a coil issue?Any advice on this?

[sittin_slidewayz]

Well I believe I have figured it out,my timing seems to be off.I put a long screw driver into cylinder 1 and took the cap off the distributor and started turning the crank pulley till the piston in the cylinder pushed the screw driver as far up as possible,when that was reached I looked at the rotor placement on the distributor and it had already passed the point where it would have crossed for spark on wire 1.Does this sound right and if so could someone give me a link to where I can get a guide on doing the timing,thanks.

[MaximA32]

.When I checked my spark it was an orange color,should it be different?

The orange color means you're getting weak spark. The spark should be blue/white in color. I would check the cap, rotor and plug wires for carbon build-up. The cap, rotor and wires is a pretty cheap fix so it shouldn't put that big of strain on your wallet.

[sittin_slidewayz]

The orange color means you're getting weak spark. The spark should be blue/white in color. I would check the cap, rotor and plug wires for carbon build-up. The cap, rotor and wires is a pretty cheap fix so it shouldn't put that big of strain on your wallet.

The cap,rotor,and plug wires are all good,I think I am getting a weak spark because the timing is off.I have the timing marks on the crank pulley set to TDC and the rotor is a little past spark plug 1 wire,and when I took the valve cover off my cam gear was past TDC,how could this have happened?Is there a way to get it back in time without having to remove all the stuff required for a timing chain replacement,or will I have to treat it as changing the chain to get everything TDC?Thanks for the help.

[vancouverbc]

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