180SX Question . . please dont flame

[nightshift]

Ok I was just kinda spacing out and thinking about stuff in class and kinda noticed how I never heard anyone talk about diffrent engines in a 180.

Well what I mean is like Whenever there was a model upgrade s13,s14,s15, the sr20 was upgraded as well. The 180sx was in production right alongside these cars up until 99, i think, and the s15 silvia came out in 98, i think. So did the 180sx get the according engine upgrades? Like a 98' 180sx has the same engine as the s15 sivlia or did it stop at the black top s13 engine for the 180? If so there were 2 versions of the Sr20det in production at the same time then right?

[I H8 UR DSM]

yep yep180, blacktop s13 motor...same years there were s14 sr's.

[I H8 UR DSM]

early 180's had ca18det

[nightshift]

thanx for the quick and flameless reply . . . yeah I always thought it stopped at the blacktop s13 . . just never heard anyone say any diffrent

[BuudWeizErr]

After 96 (maybe 96.5) got a slightly different S13 blacktop. wiring harness is different, and the ecu is a little different.

A small number of very late 180SX's, like 98 actually had S14 notchtop SR20DET's. And the S15 started it's production run in 99.

Once the S14 production run began, there were two versions of the SR20DET currently in production. The S13 blacktop and the S14 notchtop.

[Gmans13]

word

[solaris22]

early 180's had ca18det

I believe 89-90 180s had the CA18. My '89 had a CA, notice past tense, had. Tore that worthless hunk of metal outta there.

[chezina]

I believe 89-90 180s had the CA18. My '89 had a CA, notice past tense, had. Tore that worthless hunk of metal outta there.

To replace it with an engine that is made out of recycled Pepsi cans.

[solaris22]

touché

[MainEvent212]

i'll sell u a KA if u want a REAL motor :pface

[BuudWeizErr]

i'll sell u a KA if u want a REAL motor :pface

He needs a motor, not a time bomb.

[Gmans13]

lol word to that

[Onizuka]

to sum it all up 180sx's came with:

89-90: CA18DET91-93: s13 SR20DET Redtop94-98: s13 SR20DET BlacktopLate 98: S14 SR20DET notchtop (very very limited numbers)

[SpeedRacer1]

to sum it all up 180sx's came with:

89-90: CA18DET91-93: s13 SR20DET Redtop94-98: s13 SR20DET BlacktopLate 98: S14 SR20DET notchtop (very very limited numbers)

What the hell are you talking about?

[BuudWeizErr]

What the hell are you talking about?

I've actually heard this from some other people too. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen, but I wouldn't doubt it.

[SpeedRacer1]

Im going to have to lean towards the side of unicorns and peace on earth on this one. None of the three ever existed.

(to me of course and I have my reasons)

[BuudWeizErr]

Im going to have to lean towards the side of unicorns and peace on earth on this one. None of the three ever existed.

(to me of course and I have my reasons)

It seems stupid yea, but if Nissan ran out of blacktops for whatever reason, I don't see why they wouldn't just use the currently running S14 engine.

I don't know. It's all hearsay at this point.

[RobDET]

I dobut they ran out. Usually the factory keeps crate motors to sell through a dealer. They are required to keep parts for 10 years blah blah... but i don'tknow if that includes motors.

i know there was an sr20de in the silvia. Did it come in the 180 as well?

[SpeedRacer1]

Yes the DE came in 180SX's. There were four trims for the 1997-1998 180SX. Type X and Type R are the two equipped with SR20DET's. The Type S and type G were the two with SR20DE's. Each model had something special. The type X had the aerokit, the Type G had some easier handling and other luxuries or some junk.

It simply doesnt make sense that Nissan would rewire the chassis 60F** to run an S14 engine. But still have to retain the 60 gauge cluster, digital ac, etc... on the 69F** series ECU. So much headache involved in rewiring, creating new FSM's, etc.

[Onizuka]

When i get home ill take some pictures of a australian magazine with a 1998 180sx with S14 sr20det in it. The article said it came that way from the factory. I dont see why you think wiring would be such a problems seeing as how tons of people have wired s14 motors into their s13s with no problem. New FSM would be very easy to make as well, its still the same car, hell im using a s14 sr20det FSM to rebuild my s13 sr. same everything basically.

[RobDET]

right it's still the same car and the swap can be done. But the swap cannot be done in mass quantities cost effectively enough. I'm not saying nissan didn't do it but it would have been a BIG deal for them to do.

A wiser business decision would have been just to stop making the 180 when it "ran out" of motors, and because nissan is a big company with business savvy directions i still don't think happened.

If you find some nissan documentation about a 180 with an S14 motor i would be interested. I just don't think the profit from a few more 180's justifies all the changes that that would require. (not just wiring as speed pointed out but a new cluster, AC controlls, ecu exc) AND these parts would not be compatable with any other S13's OR s14's.

But to play devils advocate to myself i didn't believe there was a factory sil-eighty till i red an article a while back so prove away!

[SWIFT_DRIFT]

When i get home ill take some pictures of a australian magazine with a 1998 180sx with S14 sr20det in it. The article said it came that way from the factory. I dont see why you think wiring would be such a problems seeing as how tons of people have wired s14 motors into their s13s with no problem. New FSM would be very easy to make as well, its still the same car, hell im using a s14 sr20det FSM to rebuild my s13 sr. same everything basically.

Ok, lol. Speedracer is going to eat you alive for saying that but I'll leave that to him.

Here's some history for ya then:chuki 180's came with 2 different motors. The earlier (up to 94ish) had the redtop SR which was the same series motor and wiring as the silvia. Change happened somewhere in 94 the chuki's now had the new blacktop SR. Not really much change here, different series wiring (numberwise) but was completely interchangeable with the first series redtops. S14 Silvias are now introduced with their variable valve timing SR, completey different motor with completely different wiring. Kouki 180's make their appearance around 96 with an even newer blacktop SR. Brand new series of motor with a complete rewire from previous chuki blacktops. SO, in '98 (prolly 97) when the last koukis were being made they suddenly run out of blacktop SR's and decide to put in an s14 engine? This would mean they are putting a technically older motor, with a complete different series of wiring into the newest and last 180? That makes absolutely no sense.

The difference between chuki and kouki blacktop wiring is more then enough to make your head hurt. Hell even the digital a/c bezel is not interchangeable between chuki and kouki wiring. The plugs on the back are completely different, even though they look identical from the front and function the same. Just because some australian mag says so, doesn't mean it's right. I'm sure we would all love to see your scans in this case, so if you would post them that would be much appreciated.

[RobDET]

I'm getting skeptical about the "REAL" sil-eighty now as well... everything i search for seems to come from the same article on the same sight. I'm still looking though.

[Onizuka]

hey, i always use the magazines as my backup, just like when some kid wouldnt except the fact that there is such thing as a RB30DETT (hybrid motor), i posted pictures of the magazine it was in. You have to remember, in australia, they can import used car directly from japan and generally know ALOT more about these cars than nissan enthusiasts in america. We may be able to get some motors and parts from japan, but they are the ones that get to own the real thing, and if the australian magazine says it was stock from the factory, im going to belive it before i belive someone on the internet calling it a "unicorn".

[SWIFT_DRIFT]

australian gtr's and others that are imported are all grey-market imports, just like what would happen if you imported the same car to the US. The issue is in australia you can at least legalize them with little trouble, here is a different story.

[solaris22]

I'm getting skeptical about the "REAL" sil-eighty now as well... everything i search for seems to come from the same article on the same sight. I'm still looking though.

There was/is a factory sil-eighty. Limited number but they're around. I've seen brochures and talked to some folks around here and they do exist.

[SpeedRacer1]

hey, i always use the magazines as my backup, just like when some kid wouldnt except the fact that there is such thing as a RB30DETT (hybrid motor), i posted pictures of the magazine it was in. You have to remember, in australia, they can import used car directly from japan and generally know ALOT more about these cars than nissan enthusiasts in america. We may be able to get some motors and parts from japan, but they are the ones that get to own the real thing, and if the australian magazine says it was stock from the factory, im going to belive it before i belive someone on the internet calling it a "unicorn".

Yes because magazines are never ever wrong...

Oh and those Aussies run circles around us American folk. Have you ever read the forums of the Aussies, New Zealanders and Brits? Many of them are just as clueless as us Americans. I would find HARD evidence from a source in Japan before quoting some magazine that may in fact be the Australian Import Tuner.

Think about this "RPS14" one more time for the road... The 1997-1998 180SX had a different wiring harness than the 1991-1996 180SX. It ran a 60F series harness and had a new gauge cluster, new digital AC and new ECU to run the newer blacktop. It may or may not have also had airbags. You are trying to infer that the designers at Nissan decided to take major time out of their busy schedule to create a new wiring harness and ECU so that the S14 engine could run in the 180SX and have the ECU be compatible with the 180SX gauge cluster and digital AC. Thus forcing Nissan to design a new harness and possibly a host of other new parts for this RPS14. Does that make any sense at all? Does that seem like a cost effective way for Nissan to finish off the 180SX series?

The Sil Eighty is more believable. All you would need to do if your Nissan and you want to make a Sil Eighty is take a Nissan Silvia S13 harness and front body panels, and strap them onto a 180SX chassis. No new harness's needed, no new body parts, nothing out of the way for Nissan, strap a "sportier" suspension on that car and jack up the price for collectors. This idea seems much more plausible than the "Oh lets stick an OLDER S14 SR20DET into a chassis that we just rewired for a new S13 SR20DET, for the fun of it."

As for your whole RB30 thing, I can find that in five seconds with a search on google. Now can you find me a second source of information other than your Aussie mag that mentions an S14 SR20DET that came in a 1998 180SX from the factory?

[Onizuka]

i see where your coming from with the whole wireharness thing, but it would take whatever nissan deperment that is incharge of this sort of stuff all of maybe a day to figure out how to make it work and send out the new diagrams to whoever makes the harness for them. The S14 SR20DET was sold longer than the S13 blacktop, there is a guy on cardomain with a 1999 S14 200sx (silvia). Lots of japanese auto manufacturers come out with ultra rare special editions of cars at the end of that specific model run, and dont nessecarily make any profit off of those special editions. And those special editions aren't usually designed with practicality of repair in mind either.

[gtune4]

oknissan factory in japan has lots of dudes working on this stuff. minor wiring changes are no big deal to them. they designed it. I have been trying to learn about "silvias" and such for like two years, and I still feel like I have no idea what was really "offered" in japan. What i do know is that when I did the p.s. lines change over in my 90 model 240, all the bolt holes were there, for the resivoir and everything. They made the 90 240 chassis interchangeable from the start, as far as the mechanical side is concerned. as for the wiring, I feel like once you know where all the wires go and know what they do, it is not that hard for americans to do the swap. The factory in japan knows everything, and they can probably whip up a harness for any of these motor combinations faster than you can reply to this message. The real differences are minor wiring/sensor/ecu changes. The swap is hard for us, not them. That is why it is so much fun!

ps. note that our swap is ka to sr, not sr to sr as discussed hear.

do you think it would be easier to design a car that goes from ka base to sr base, or from sr flattop to sr notch?