180sx 1993 Electrical Problem

[Aaron.Nagy]

How's it going everyone.

I have this huge problem. My alternator was over charging and it has caused a shorting problem somewhere in the car, ill start from the beginning, when i turn the ignition on, my front and rear wipers come on without the switches turned on. And the fan comes on without the Climate Control even turned on. And when i turn the car on, doors closed, the CD player blinks on and off in quick succession, and at the same time, in time with the cd player the door ajar light blinks very dimly. But when the doors are open (any door) the CD player turns off completely. Plus my drivers side window wont go up or down, now i dont think anything to do with the window has burnt out because the day that the problem occurred, my window was half down, and when i turned the car ignition on or the car on i dont remember, the window went down instantly, so i think its getting an active current to always go down.

[centralcoaster33]

I won't be much help, but maybe someone else can chime in with more information. The DS window going down could just be a stuck window switch (pretty common). Can you please check your fuses? Both under the hood and in the kick panel by the dead pedal. Please tell us if any of them were toasted. If you do decide to replace any, see if running your car blows them again. Report back and those might be clues others can use to help you diagnose the issue. I wonder if something is grounding out and think there should be fuses going out somewhere. Good luck! Sounds like a pretty bad gremlin.

[Aaron.Nagy]

No other fuses blow out at all since i changed the overcharging alternator out the other day

[centralcoaster33]

I'm sorry to ask, but when you say no other fuses, what do you mean by other? Other than the fuses that did blow out? What were those?

I searched a bit and read that you can help isolate your issue by removing fuses one at a time and seeing what is affected. Like, pull the blower motor fuse and turn the car on and see what happens. Do that for whatever system is acting up (one system at a time, then put the fuse back and move on to the next one). That can help you determine if you have shorted wires before or after your fuse box and possibly narrow down the potential location of the issue(s).

Can you please report what is happening currently, not just what was or before your alternator replacement. The beginning is interesting, but I mean detailed, specific and current status. Be clear when you say like "on". I don't know if you have the engine "on" or just the car or what that means. I would guess you have the car on and the engine running, but I'm totally guessing.

So try a few configurations and note the details you see. Like, with no key, what's still on? With key in but not turned? With Key in turned to just accessories power? What about all the way on, but not started, then all the way on and started, Etcetera. Tell us what works for each and be sure to note if things are on or off, then whether or not they are switched on or off, and don't forget to look at your check engine light being on or off (it should be with key all turned but engine not started).

[Aaron.Nagy]

Yeah you are right i am sorry i should have been more detailed.
Okay, here goes.

Everything off: Standing outside car: Post Alternator Change( No Overcharging )

The Fuses that blew are as follows,

Heater Motor, both 15A fuses blown.
Cig Lighter, Blown. The cd player in my car was wired to this by previous own too by the way.
Washer Wipers, Blown.
Everything that runs through those fuses doesn't work at all aside from the cd player which i will get to later.

Now i will proceed to tell you what happens to the car with those 4 fuses removed/no fuse in there.
Drivers side window doesn't go up or down at all.


If i open either Drivers or passengers side door, all door operated lights have been blown.

Sit in car and turn the key to the first click, accessories. Nothing happens at all, no cd nothing comes on.

Turn the key to the on position, car not started, doors/door (doesn't matter which door) open: Nothing is on apart from the usual, park brake light, oil light, and door ajar light.

Now i close the door/doors, the cd player comes on in flashes, not to quick but not really slow either. As soon as a door is open, it goes out.

Okay car engine started, doors closed: Cd player flashing, door light very dimly on and flashing in time with the cd player, if i drive the car the cd player flashing gets fast and the door light stops flashing and gets stronger with the RPM of the car.

Now i will tell you what happens with fresh fuses in the car. Everything to do with the CD player is exactly the same with or without the fuses.

Okay sitting in the car, car turned to fully on without engine started. Aircon/Heater Fan starts up on what seems to be the low setting, plus all wipers on the car start up aswell. All the switches to those are set to off.
Now if i turn the Climate control on, i can use it 100 percent normally. I now take the Heater motor fuses out, it doesn't matter if i take one or both out, the fan is still on until both fuses are out. Once the fuses are out, the climate control doesn't work anymore

Now the washer wipers. The different speeds work and the sprayers. But if i take the Washer Wiper fuse out though, only the Front Washers stop. I have to take the Cig lights fuse out for the rear one to stop. With the fuses out, both wipers are now not working either

The only thing is the cd player still having power with the blinking.

With the car engine running, the exact same thing happens.

[centralcoaster33]

Yes, this is good, clear data. Thanks. I will look through my books when I get home. Hopefully someone else with more knowledge will have something to add with all that information you've provided.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Thanks very much, it's driving me mental.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Any luck?

[centralcoaster33]

Hi Aaron,

I apologize for lagging. I got busy this weekend. I have looked at the FSM. You can also here: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/use-ni ... abase.html.

So, I'm looking at a diagram on page EL-6. I'll post an image of my marked up sheet if I can figure it out easy enough. Anyway, I think I have a reasonable place to investigate wiring.

I think you have a common link with a lot of those issues. They are mostly tied to Accessory Relay-1 and somewhat to Ignition Relay. So, you get to do a little trial and error, by swapping some of your relays around, because I think they are the same. For your testing, I would see about using your radiator fan relay and moving it into the spot for your Accessory Relay-1. Then maybe the ignition relay, then maybe Accessory Relay-2, dancing them around and testing to see what does and does not work... process of elimination.

The hope being you just fried a relay to stuck open or something like that. Now, there is a possibility you fried a wire... I think the wire would be beneath the relays, leading up to the two I mentioned in particular.

I haven't finished reviewing the diagram nor have I gotten to look at the other diagrams with more details. Some sort of plug, M12 links the accessories to the ignition relays with a white and a white/ Lime wire that could be a culprit. You can see what I'm referring to on the page of the FSM I mention.

Lemme know what you find please. Again, sorry for lagging. I was hoping to make time for this on Saturday, which sort of blew up in my face all weekend.

[centralcoaster33]

Here's the photo link: C:\Users\Jeff\Desktop\1993240sxel-6.jpg
and maybe I can make it fit into this text box here...
[img]C:\Users\Jeff\Desktop\1993240sxel-6.jpg[/img] maybe not.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Hey don't apologize, i don't mind waiting, im just amazed at the time your taking to help me out, i appreciate it alot. If you could possibly re upload those pics that would be great, they haven't loaded in.

But what I'll do is have a look at what you said, i shall get back to you within the day hopefully.

[centralcoaster33]

Ha! Those are not the correct links! and now I don't have access since that is all at the office. Did you get the FSM? It's from there... Look in the electrical section. Maybe print the schematic sheets that pertain to the systems you mention, then highlight the lines that pertain to those. Find common power sources, common relays and common grounds I would think. Something along there got stuck together maybe.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Is the FSM for a 1993 240sx different to a 180sx? Cause the relays were labeled differently on the manual then to my car, I'll read over it again, but what i tried also is to remove those and all the things still happened.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Sorry scratch that. I was looking at the wrong relays. I'll get back to you.

[centralcoaster33]

I'm sorry, I forgot you have a 180sx. I am not sure about the FSM, but I would guess it is close as far as these components go. There is a moderator here named float_6969 that runs the CA18. Perhaps he has a better FSM to recommend. I did grab the 1993 240sx one.

I didn't phrase it well, but I wanted you to check the accessory relays to make sure they work. The easy way I know of to test that is to swap it around with another relay that is the same and see if there are any changes. You could also just remove one relay and see what changes occur, then put it back.

I think either your switches themselves got fried, or the wires before them have been bypassed to give the accessories power. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to suspect the relays are fine, but it's further down the line that those.

Maybe pick an accessory, like the wipers or the heater fan, and focus on tracing that wire system alone. Somehow pull the things that deliver power and see if you still have power to the accessory. I think you want to narrow down where the short is doing that. You could use a volt-meter and look for continuity where it shouldn't be and for voltage where it shouldn't be. I'm not sure about the best approach.

I did get the image going, I think. Here's a link.
http://imgur.com/MMP2apu

I admit, I have to look at the diagrams a bit longer to figure this out. It's like a puzzle. I'm glad you're patient.

[Aaron.Nagy]

I'll go over all of that, i still haven't been able to get around to it, I'm also doing the CV joints on my other car. I'll have to pull it all apart after that jobs done, i'll try get my hands on a FSM for a 93 180, i'll get back to you shortly.

[lexcrob]

I would maybe try to solve this one a different way. Id go back to the original problem one more time. How did you know the alternator was overcharging? It was killing batteries or your headlight bulbs kept blowing. Maybe you smelled some burning. Maybe the alternator fuse popped? Id go as far as to crack open the fuse box itself which is pretty easy and inspect in there just to be sure your kosher. I once had a battery bounce up and hit the hood shorting the terminals while driving. Melted all kinds of stuff in the fuse box.

Maybe check your charging system one more time. Maybe a power and negative side voltage drop test real quick on the studs of the battery to frame and alternator.

Beyond that I know the driver side fender had a big junction right in middle that likes to cause problems ALOT. Like when you lower it and the tire eats up the wires it causes similar symptoms as aboves.

[lexcrob]

If it does start really kicking you in the nuts.
Just uplug all that $tuff and run toggle switches till you feel like messing with it again.
Sometimes best to go around the problem.
Plus its so fun watching buddys drive your car freaking out that nothing works because you "relocated" the swtiches.

[Aaron.Nagy]

I have booted the car off to the Local Auto Electrician, i have had zero time but i will post the fix back here when i know more.

[gaz_moose]

my guess would be that you run the suspension low and the front wheel has rubbed through the loom in the drivers side wheel arch.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Stock Suspension

[centralcoaster33]

What's the word with the Local Auto Electrician? Any results yet? I like Lexcrob's idea! I have switches in mine. Ignition, fans, starter, etc. I'm hoping components didn't get fried. That would be expensive.

[Aaron.Nagy]

Well, as it turns out there was alot fried under the dash, plenty melted and so on, so what hes going to do is instead of ripping the whole dash and replacing the whole lot, hes going to bypass everything but still leave it original to the wiring diagram. Cheapest option.

[justinrps13]

I know its a pretty obvious thing but did you hook up the positive and negative on the battery backwards? that can cause tons of issues like your describing

[centralcoaster33]

Crap. So, the components did get fried. Well, part outs and junk yards will have a few useful bits hopefully. The climate control box, cluster and steering wheel controls seem important. Best of luck with all that.