16.5......no way

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

ok guys ,a guy i work with has a 99 prelude, as you all probably know, it has a 2.2 liter DOHC vtec inline 4cyl motor, putting out 2oohp and 16oft lbs of tq (claimed crank hp and tq), it is also fwd, well this one in particular is a sportshift (auto that u can shift deal), all he has is an intake and muffler rite now, the car has about 4ok on it, well he's taken it to the track, and with the spare tire out, he can only get 16.4 out of her, all day, 16.4 after 16.4, i thought this to be very slow (for this car anyway), he says all of the 5spds out there are running mid 15s , i know his auto can't add a whole second to the 1/4 time, hell the stock 24o is supposed to run 16.2 from the factor (the dohc anyway), and that motor is down about 5ohp and 5ft lbs of tq, granted it is RWD, i plan on taking my car to the track (o2 altima 2.5s) and i also plan on running about 16.4 (hopefully better of cousre:rolleyes ) and was wondering, does 16.4 for a 99 prelude sound right? i figured even with the auto, a good 16flat would be about right, what do u guys think?

Post by **AZhitman** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Well, considering the intake and muffler don't do anything except make more noise (no, they DON'T add 30 hp, or 20... wasted money).

This is an example of people thinking their stuff is faster than it really is. Remember, the Prelude is no lightweight, and 200 crank hp translates to perhaps 150 at the wheels.

Post by **UncleBen** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

If it is a autostick 'Lude, it is the Type S, not Type SH, which are the ones with 200hp. The type S's have 195 horses to the crank, and not sure about torque. Really low, obviously. And that number sounds right to me. I've ridden and driven an autostick 5th gen 'Lude, and the transmission SUCKS BAD. I can see how it would add 1 second to the guys time. The 5spd Type SH's, which I have been in and driven also, are very quick once gotten up to speed. They are still very heavy though.

Post by **SmithSR** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Also, getting a good launch is much tougher in said Prelude with sport shift. A neutral drop is painful and ugly, and about the only way to get the car off the line with any success. I've got $20 says every car magazine test driver who tested a similar car with similar transmission(that put up good 1/4mile times) had no problem revving the hell out of the engine and then slammin it into gear, producing the best possible launch(considering FWD, weight transfer to rear unpowered wheels). Because, what do they care? It's a test car, after all. It'll produce the best launch times, assuming no great wheelspin, but will play hell with a factory transmission. This may be one factor as to why printed numbers look good for the car, but in real life, what owner is gonna sacrifice his transmission?

Post by **UncleBen** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

You would be suprised at the owners willing to sacrifice their auto transmission's....

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

well i know the intake doesnt help much at all, and the muffler doesnt do a damn bit of good, i was just stating hte facts, and also, yes, hte car does weigh in at about 3k, but still, the dyno i saw was 178.2hp and 15o.5 tq at the wheels, and no this wasnt from tihs car, but it was stock prelude, and it can't vary THAT much (hell its not a spec v, hehehe) and also, when i looked up times i got o-6o:7.8 and 1/4 mile in 16flat @89mph ,this is about what i expected, but not 16.4???

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

SmithSR wrote:Also, getting a good launch is much tougher in said Prelude with sport shift. A neutral drop is painful and ugly, and about the only way to get the car off the line with any success. I've got $20 says every car magazine test driver who tested a similar car with similar transmission(that put up good 1/4mile times) had no problem revving the hell out of the engine and then slammin it into gear, producing the best possible launch(considering FWD, weight transfer to rear unpowered wheels). Because, what do they care? It's a test car, after all. It'll produce the best launch times, assuming no great wheelspin, but will play hell with a factory transmission. This may be one factor as to why printed numbers look good for the car, but in real life, what owner is gonna sacrifice his transmission?

also, i dont know if you've been in an auto that was launched like that, but it doesnt seem to help at all, all you get is a loud thud, and bang, and the car rolls off, it doesnt seem to improve actual launch at all

Post by **SmithSR** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Yes, I've done this many times, and have been in car when others have launched. This is the only way to get revs up where they need to be to reach the powerband at launch. It's a sad reality, and it ruins transmissions quite quickly. It's not for the faint of heart. But I stand by my statement that this will get the relatively small displacement, high rpm engine into the powerband in the automatic transmission optioned Prelude.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. Just if a kid wants to take his Prelude with an automatic transmission to a track, that's pretty much the only way to get the rpm into the powerband before launch.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

i have to wonder if these 'professional' numbers im finding were coming from torque braking?, you know, holding the brake down, and revving until the stall converter kicks in, my altima will rev to 2k in D, until i can't rev anyomre, and when i launch i get a good jump, and it doesnt hurt the transmission nearly as bad, but still, can that make up for .4 seconds of time in the numbers??

Post by **SmithSR** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Well, considering most all drag races are decided at the tree, I'd say yes. Just a general observation, overlooking alot of variables, but basically, launch is most crucial part of a race.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

o, i nkow trust me, next time ill see if he'll let me drive

and see what i can pull out of her

Post by **Former_240_s14** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

95silviase wrote:If it is a autostick 'Lude, it is the Type S, not Type SH, which are the ones with 200hp. The type S's have 195 horses to the crank, and not sure about torque. Really low, obviously. And that number sounds right to me. I've ridden and driven an autostick 5th gen 'Lude, and the transmission SUCKS BAD. I can see how it would add 1 second to the guys time. The 5spd Type SH's, which I have been in and driven also, are very quick once gotten up to speed. They are still very heavy though.

Ben, correct me if I am wrong but they are the same motor (S and SH) all the SH is is a aero kit, wheels, and a leather shift knob.....

Thats what Honda told me 3 years ago..........

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

i thought the same thing, but even still, point remains 5hp or not, thats .4seconds slower than what others got

Post by **Cold_Zero** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

There are a lot of factors that go into a 1/4mi drag race. Just because a car can do 16.2 doesnt mean that the driver can make it do it. Trust me, I am still trying to learn.

Did the guy put bigger wheels on the car or different tires?

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

stock wheels and tires, nothing modified other than the intake (well and muffler), and i know driver has a lot to do with it, but its an automatic, so it shouldnt vary by that far

also, bud i was lookin at the pictures of the scooby and noticed the black sti, who's is that? and also, i dont remember u mentioning a short throw shifter on the scooby? is it that much shorter?

Post by **Cold_Zero** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

The STi belongs to a guy in our Impreza club. It is a bad *** machine, even stock from the factory.

The Perrin short shifter is nice. It really reduces the throw from gear to gear. It was a pretty easy install as well.

bud

Post by **Cold_Zero** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

AZhitman wrote:Well, considering the intake and muffler don't do anything except make more noise (no, they DON'T add 30 hp, or 20... wasted money).

This is an example of people thinking their stuff is faster than it really is.

I am working on a cold air intake for my lawnmower. I have a meager 6hp Briggs and Stratton engine. I am thinking of doing an engine swap with the MDM (Milwaukee Domestic Market) engine. My uncle is the VP of the company and I am shipping the engine straight from Milwaukee. Get a small turbo to go with the engine swap and it will take me half the time to mow the lawn. I can be back on the couch to watch the Simpsons in no time at all.

Post by **AZhitman** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

LOL @ MDM....hahahahaha

Post by **UncleBen** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Former_240_s14 wrote:Ben, correct me if I am wrong but they are the same motor (S and SH) all the SH is is a aero kit, wheels, and a leather shift knob.....

Thats what Honda told me 3 years ago..........

It is the exact motor, but the ATTS on the Type SH gives it 5 extra horses. And yes, that is not enough to make a difference, I was just being thorough. And the SH doesn't necessarily always have the aero kit either. That is alot of times an option on the SH, and is not seen.

Post by **hannibal** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

I know Car and Driver use brake torque launches when they test an automatic. Ive never heard of revving it in neutral then slaming it into drive. That's gotta kill a transmission after a while!

Jay

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

my friends mom tried it with her 99 mustang v6, well needless to say, she drives a nice o3 4cyl tibby, no more of that, and she got a 5spd!! that lil sucker isnt too shabby, ive raced her once (yep she actually floored it, and shes 48yrs old and a nurse!!) i had 2 other guys in the car with me, her son, and anohter buddy of mine, we took off from a red light, and she had me right from the launch, but after that i walked her, nice lil car tho, it looks great

Post by **Megaseth** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Cold_Zero wrote:I am working on a cold air intake for my lawnmower. I have a meager 6hp Briggs and Stratton engine. I am thinking of doing an engine swap with the MDM (Milwaukee Domestic Market) engine. My uncle is the VP of the company and I am shipping the engine straight from Milwaukee. Get a small turbo to go with the engine swap and it will take me half the time to mow the lawn. I can be back on the couch to watch the Simpsons in no time at all.

hahah, i was thinking of dropping a B16 into a Honda mower, maybe a comptech supercharger. Or an SR into a riding mower. hell, i even considered an SR in a bike, kinda like the Boss Hoss ones.

And yes, the auto trannys loose a LOT of power due to the torque converter. takes more power to get the thing moving. so i can see how he would be slower. i knew a guy who used to do that to his Fiero, rev it and slam it into gear. would have like to see that POS just explode, but a destroy transmission would have been much funnier.

Post by **MainEvent212** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

a turbo mower would be sweet...

Post by **Nathan** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

I used to neutral drop my 90' camry at around 5000 rpms all the time, it never seemed to hurt it. The rest of the car died before the transmission had any problems, and the sight of a camry whitesmoking ONE tire was just too funny.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

have any of you guys seen that picture of a kid on his mower doing a burnout, hilarious, it was in SCC as burnout of the month a while back

Post by **AZhitman** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Nathan wrote:I used to neutral drop my 90' camry at around 5000 rpms all the time, it never seemed to hurt it.

I did the SAME thing to my mom's 84 Topaz GS back in the day... Broke BOTH motor mounts.

Mom couldn't figure out why the engine would put a DENT in the hood.

ooops.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

haha, and most moms would neve figure that out

Post by **Cold_Zero** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

AZ-That is funnier than hell.

Post by **AZhitman** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

nlzmo400r wrote:haha, and most moms would neve figure that out

Mine did.

And a certain "pre-ricer" got his a$$ whupped for it. :spank

Post by **Altiman94** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:32 pm

Neutral dropping is not safe, and yes an automatic can make for slower times than a 5 sp by one second easily, take my altima for example. rated at 16.3 stock 5 sp and 17.4 auto in the same year and model trim. I happened to run a 16.7 with my auto, but it's been rebuilt and shifts slightly quicker than a stock auto transmission:ylsuper

16.5......no way

16.5......no way

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