15Lb Tune-T3 Super60, stock MAF, 460cc

[Edub1]

T3 Super 60, stock MAF 460cc injectors - 15lbs

Well, I think this is the tune I'm going to start out with. I think it's a little rich right now but that will be straightened out later.

The tune starts pulling 7 degrees at 2400 and 9 - 11lbs above 2800 in high load and 12 lbs in the vary highest load and rpm.

Perhaps some of you guys might like to have a look. Feel free to try it but it is untested.

USE AT OWN RISK!!!!!!!!

Error on previous tune - fixed Nov 12, 06

Check back for updates.


Modified by Edub1 at 10:48 AM 11/12/2006

[KATwo40]

It's not wise to make the last column something you plan to use at peak boost. There should be some overhead to compensate for unplanned boost spikes and such.

I'll download it later and take a peek. (Wrong computer right now)

[crzycav86]

You probably wanna upgrade the maf to n60 at least.

[Poor_S13_Driver]

I dont really know what HP that T3 will yield at 12psi, but wont that be too much for the stock MAF? like crzycav86 kinda mentioned... Im intrested to see how this will go because thats the size Injectors i want to run, and PSI, but Z32 MAF and maybe a stage III Super 60.. Im still jumping back and forth on the turbo i want. Someone try this out

[hannibal]

Please clarify your timing settings? I assume you mean 9-11 * above 2800rpm, but that seems like a lot retard for 15 lbs max boost.

Just curious, are you using FC injectors? Any mods to fit them in stock rail?

I have dreams about the Super 60 making 300whp at 15psi. Please make my dreams come true...

[jmwenick]

Tune for what? Bikirom?

[wild_maxx]

The tune is for the socket/Chip setup in the SOHC ECU's.

The 460cc-550cc high impedence rx-7 fuel injectors will fit directly into the SOHC fuel rail. You have to shave the injector clips a bit...and use the nissan o-rings on the injectors.... but its an easy fit.

I have used the following injectors on 2 of my turbo setups.

1989-91 RX-7 195500-2010 Saturated 460cc Red Top 1988 RX-7 195500-1370 Saturated 550cc Purple Top

I am currently running 15 psi through a t3 super 60 and it feels awesome.

Edub- I loaded that tune Gabe did on my setup. (the one you burned for me) and then loaded your tune in the ROM editor program. I tried using the comparison tools to see the timing changes on your map vs. Gabe's.... but couldn't figure it out..... Can you post it up?

[Poor_S13_Driver]

I havent really looked at chipped ECUs nor do i really understand them(havent really researched yet) but looks cool. In short your just buring the desired a tune, then hooking it into the stock SOHC computer..? For the dumb(me) it kinda could be compared to a JWT tune( not literally but its tuned for your car only diffrence is its on a chip) thanks for clarifying and my lack of searching

[wild_maxx]

yep thats pretty much it. JWT basically does the same thing. They have their ka24e-t tune for specific setups. (injectors, MAF, CR) They remove the stock chip that is soldered into the ecu board then replace it with a socket making it easy to remove them in the future.

The SOHC has a benefit though, we can modify a stanza ECU to allow us to see and use realtime data to tune the car. It's very useful for tuning. There's a program out that shows just about everything your ECU monitors and controls. (timing, fuel injector duty cycle, maf voltage, water temp, intake temp. ect.)

all the info you need can be found at http://www.eccs.hybridka.com/

[Edub1]

First, I am going to see how much the stock MAF will do. The FSM says it will default to the TPS and go into limp mode when it maxes out - we will see. I've heard estimates in the upper 200s

Wid Maxx, the tune is going to be all together different. I'm using the old address file and don't have the maps combined. Compair both to a stock tune and you will see that his is much more different.

Open my tune in Rom Editor, select the stock tune as your comparison bin. Go to my "high octane ig" map and select "3D editing," then you can check the box for comparison to see where the stock tune would be. You will notice that in the high load areas I began pulling timing at 2400RPM as that is where the super 60 enters boost. At 2800RPMs we should see full boost so I have .75*/lb or 11* pulled out everwhere above that with 12* in the last column.

I have decided just to tune the ECU for fuel and go the BTM route though. I see too many advantages this way and no dissadvantage.

1) Adjustable for race gas2) Much less dyno time & money3) No guessing where boost will be4) Will compensate automatically for boost creep/spike5) will compensate automatically for change in boost level6) No worries about blowing up on dyno7) New unit can delay retard untill specified boost is reached

I just bought one for $132 shipped from Ebay. Why spend way, way, way more on dyno time and get none of the above advantages?

Anyway, I'll post up your tune with timing that is more appropriate. I'm sure he gave you a base tune that is meant to keep bumping up on a dyno.

[Poor_S13_Driver]

Mmmm it sounds like my dream is coming true. Ill be using a BTM for timing so thats out of the way. So i can just tell you what boost/maf/octane/CR/Injector im using, and you can give me a tune that i plug right in and it will cover all my fuel needs/responsibilities for the given PSI? (Just trying to make sure i understand right). Thanks again

[Edub1]

Pretty much. Fueling might need a little tweeking.

Tune removed
Modified by Edub1 at 7:58 PM 11/3/2006

[Poor_S13_Driver]

This is magnificiant. Now I feel confident about starting my SOHC project.

[KATwo40]

I know for a fact that Devious pulls pretty significant timing values in the high load areas. The only thing accomplished by pulling more timing for safety is increased EGT's, as well as loss of power (guarantee the tune doesn't reach MBT as-is, so less timing will certainly drop the torque).

Aren't you concerned with checking the tune on the dyno, regardless of what timing device you use (i.e. EEPROM or BTM)? Seems foolish to spend the time and money you've spent on a nice setup and then cheap out on tuning. I would rather see you save up and do it right so we don't have to view another one of those dreadful "My motor blew up" threads.

[Edub1]

I know for a fact that Devious pulls pretty significant timing values in the high load areas. The only thing accomplished by pulling more timing for safety is increased EGT's, as well as loss of power (guarantee the tune doesn't reach MBT as-is, so less timing will certainly drop the torque).

Aren't you concerned with checking the tune on the dyno, regardless of what timing device you use (i.e. EEPROM or BTM)? Seems foolish to spend the time and money you've spent on a nice setup and then cheap out on tuning. I would rather see you save up and do it right so we don't have to view another one of those dreadful "My motor blew up" threads.

I pulled from my tune not his. I did notice that he majorly drops off in the highest load column. It seems like you would want to roll off in the high load AND high RPM areas not the whole column. That kind of looks like you are fine if you put your foot down 90% but when you floor it it falls flat. I rolled mine down 2* in the last 2 columns at 6000RPM only.

As far as dyno tuning. A BTM is going to pull timing according to boost regardless of the map location from which the ECU is reading. I alraedy know for sure that a BTM set from .5 - .75 deg/lb will do exactely what I need it to. My other option is to set everything way low and do dyno pulls over and over untill I get enough power or blow the motor. Even if I do go the dyno route which is in my opinion far more dangerous, I get a fixed tune that I am stuck with.

I also see boost levels happening at different times in different gears. A tuned ECU can not compensate for this - a BTM can. Other than calling it "the right way," I can't see any advantage with a fixed timing map. The BTM is set and forget.

[deviousKA]

The highest load scale in Shawn's tune is not accessed with his current (or at least at time of tuning) setup.

The ecu configuration for Z32 and 460cc injector provided a maximum TP of 35 and a maximum duty cycle of 60% with his setup.

The file is tuned with headroom so that if Shawn wanted to change up his turbo and what not, add boost, he would be well within the limits of the ecus resolution and not limited to a necessary retune (provided the MAF and injectors are kept). The fuel correction is provided up to 4.9v MAFv and ~98% duty cycle.

Also, during tuning Shawns car was running just a bit on the hot side, I was with it long enough to confirm temperature stabilization after multiple runs, but it was still before the heat of the summer. I did pull the timing back just a tad on a revision I sent to him, because of this reason. It is actually tuned rather aggressively, timing wise. Full boost at 6000 rpm he is getting ~22 degrees advance, when the car is warmed up. Additional timing is provided when cold, and if his car were to ever get super hot (coolant or IAT), up to 6 degrees of timing would be subtracted.

When looking at the maps, remember his car is barely passing half the map, that should put things into better perspective.

Lowering the TP value on the TP scale does not necessarily reduce fuel correction. Fuel correction will only be affected if the correction value (cell value) is a lower value than was previously being plotted at that point. Modifying your TP scale changes plot characteristics, obviously, so by lowering say your last 5 values, the ecu will move past those columns much more quickly (reduced slope). Simple nature of the scales, this is how you shift your fuel table resolution, not how you correct fuel.

To correct fueling, use the table cell values.

[KATwo40]

My other option is to set everything way low and do dyno pulls over and over untill I get enough power or blow the motor. Even if I do go the dyno route which is in my opinion far more dangerous, I get a fixed tune that I am stuck with.

You need to research using a steady state dyno and how to tune on one to clear up your fear of dynos.

I also see boost levels happening at different times in different gears. A tuned ECU can not compensate for this - a BTM can. Other than calling it "the right way," I can't see any advantage with a fixed timing map. The BTM is set and forget.

A MAF system will compensate because it works from load at a given rpm. This is why you need some headroom in your correction tables.

Either way you do it, as long as you get the performance and drivability you seek, then props to you. Keep us posted as to your progress.

[Edub1]

Good to hear from you, where have you been?

That certainly clears things up. I didn't know you could simply shorten the map. How does this relate to the VQ scale?

As for fueling, you are saying that the TP determines what column the ECU will look at? So, much for using that for fuel correction. What cell values change things by around 10% or 1 point?

Also, I can't log into hybridka.

[wild_maxx]

HOLY CRAP IT'S GABE!!!

We need to meet up some weekend and do some fine tuning on my setup. I recircd. the BOV but its still stalling out... I'm going to put the car away for the winter pretty soon... so if you have some free time on the weekends let me know and i'll make a trip over there.

[deviousKA]

Hey Shawn, I just moved to Juliaetta, about 25 minutes out of Moscow. The next couple weekends I am probably going to be busy, I have a lot of tables, couches, cabinets, etc.. to move and its about the only chance I have because I have to borrow a truck, cant move much with my little car.

No net access yet either so it will be a little hit in miss until I get settled in. I got online only recently so that I could dump some of the latest EC3 KA24E ecu development on everyone, before this computer gets pulled.

And yeah, I got real busy this summer with some other projects including the dyno (I built my own controller unit and all the data aquisition equip.). Come spring time though if your around I should be able to get your car up on the rollers.

And jfyi everyone , ill be around the ka scene for some time to come, no worries, lol.

[Edub1]

Is hybridka messed up? I can't log on for love or money. It's "edub" without the "1" in that forum.

[deviousKA]

Ill get that checked out edub. Afaik no one else is having log in problems.

[nvrplzd240]

devious...

man I've been trying to get a hold of you for a while now

i'm gonna be buying a cam for my SOHC sometime this month.. are you still selling cams from your site? I really hope so cause yours is less expensive and almost the same as the PDM cam i was looking at since i didnt hear from you

anyways.. lemme know either in this thread or shoot me an email at [email protected]

thanks

/threadjack

[Edub1]

Thank's

Man, it looks like you've been making huge strides in getting that code all figured out. That launch limiter rocks.