13b into s14!!!

[kansaidrift]

Before i begin let me start by putting on my asbestos fire suit, becuase i know i'm going to get flamed for this one. However, has anyone ever seen a 13b rotary thrown into an s14 chassis. If not, then why would this not be a good idea.

Let me also say that i fully realize the potential of the sr motors. On top of that i also realize the potential of KA turbo. I beleive both of these are great motors and i hold nothing agianst them. Until recently i had considered, and am still considering both options. However, in terms of shear horsepower per pound of boost, with eqaul amounts of tuning, i beleive the wankel rotary to be superior.

You can tell me all about how unreliable the 13b is, i am fully aware of its reliability issues (which if you ask me are not really issues at all if you know what you're doing). I am also aware of the amount of care that must be takin in tuning this engine. However i would much rather hear points, on how it would effect the cars geometry, moving weight distribution, how to line up shifter, engine mounting, wiring, etc, etc.

I am interested because this is an option that i have not heard discussed before. I tried using search function and came up with nothing. So with that said, i'm very interested in what all of you think. Once agian, i want to talk about the wankel rotary going into an s14 chassis, not about how it would be ignorant just becuase i can put an sr or ka-t in there. I am already aware of what can be done with these engines. I want to hear valid points, why or why not and what kind of suggestions you might have on this. Sorry i posted here in ka turbo, but i didn't see any spot for wankel rotary here in this section.

[cnichols]

I guess it all depends on what you're planning on doing with the car. Unless it will be a serious road racing car, I don't see why weight distribution would really matter.

The HOLY s*** factor would be through the roof at a car show or wherever you go...no doubt about that.

If you've got the money...get a Haltech (seems to be a fav of RX-7 owners), buy or build your rotary...and have fun...because it will be a challenge I'm sure, but one that hasn't been done many times before, if at all.

I think it's a great idea...doing something original is getting tougher and tougher these days.

[kansaidrift]

This is exactly the kind of stuff i'm looking for, thank you C.

[Tony Starks]

I don't know much about the wankel but if you can drop one into a 510 and it be an all out performer,I don't see why you couldn't drop one into a S13 or S14.That's a good idea and since you've posted your idea I can see this swap taking place every where in the next couple of years.Good job kansaidrift.

[I am Technoman]

That should be a light s14 front end! In most cases doing a rotary swap people run in to A problem with the motor sitting to low with the oil pan . So I recommend going with a dry sump and using an 8 quart reservoir. No synthetic oil and 93 13b side apex springs. in Orlando we call them pac man’s Sorry about the rotary talk. 8)

[I am Technoman]

And just wait until this new rotary comes out in the RX-8. They fixed every problem with the running rich “smog problem” because at idle a 12a and 13b had 3X the scavengingEffect than a piston engine and would run real rich at idle. This problem is now gone in the new motor and it weighs 70 lbs lighter. The ports are redesigned as well 250hp at 95k

[1dollar240]

Quote »And just wait until this new rotary comes out in the RX-8. They fixed every problem with the running rich “smog problem” because at idle a 12a and 13b had 3X the scavenging[/quote]

Yes, very true. They relocated the intake/exhaust ports to the (i guess you would call it) front of the chamber instead of on the side. In doing this, they totally eliminated any overlap, which on previous versions was letting unburnt air/fuel to escape. Looks like its gonna be a solid engine, but good luck getting one for anything less than a small fortune.

[JESTER]

If you are gonna go rotary, 20B. Enough said.

[kansaidrift]

Ok, i'm now i'm glad i posted this topic. At first i figured i would get flamed for wanting to put a mazda in a nissan chassis. But you've all been bringing up some really good points. Especially thanks to you technoman, i had forgotton about the oil pan clearance, but now thats one more thing i can add to the list.

The main reason i'm considering this option is this. One I don't like the fc interior, two seats, 80's ish styling, etc. Two, i love the FD but damn, its just too hard to find a clean one for a remotely reasonable price. Three, did i mention the back seat, beleive it or not sometimes i actually have people back there, (amputees mostly), but still. Four, by lightning up the front end a little bit, as well as moving all that weight back toward the fire wall, and lowering the center of gravity, not to mention its horsepower capabilities, i beleive there is potential to make an absolutely killer all around road and track car.

Also, someone mentioned the 20b, i'm shooting for maybe around six hundred horse on race gas. I do not need a one thousand horsepower monster. Simply put, i would end up killing myself, and probably others. Its not a bad idea though, however i'll leave that to the guys of Top Secret, that sounds more like there thing.

[JESTER]

you will be better off going with a 20b if you are trying to get to 600. You remember the guy in Super Street. He was running 557 hp (i think) with a 20b. Perfect. And less strain on the triple rotars than the 13b.

You know something funny? There is a guy over on RX7Club.com wanting to put an SR20DET in his 2nd gen RX7. For the ease of making power and reliability. And at least two guys on here wanting to put rotarys in to 240's.

[kansaidrift]

Yeah, actually that guy already has the motor in his fc. There are a few threads over on freshalloy. I beleive he's almost finished with the swap from what i last read of it.

However, that seems strange to me that he would opt for a slightly heavier engine, that will throw off the dynamics of his car. Now he has moved the center of gravity up and out into the chassis, upsetting his weight balance.

As for the new rx-8 motor, i've seen some diagrams of the port work, its pretty intersting design. However, i'm not impressed with there torque numbers, as i read it will only have about 150lb/ft. Can anyone else cofirm this.

One last thing, who else on here was interested in doing that swap? Somebody mentioned there beeing somebody else. Maybe we could share some info regarding this potential swap.

[s14=pimpin']

20b would be nice. Have you considered a RB motor instead? A little heavy, but you will at least have reliability, keep your car in the nissan family, and still have the potential to hit absurd HP #'s? Not knocking your idea, it is a good one, although I still think an RB motor is ideal for an s14, IMO at least.

good luck man!!!

[UncleBen]

i confirm the 150lb/ft torque numbers. thats crappy for such a high power motor. almost like a, dare i say, honda. but it would be a sweet car to have, even if there is no torque.

[JESTER]

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....10651

[BB Turbo]

Since we are all getting original here, shoot, i wanna put a 2jz in a 240, or EJ20, lots of money, somthing of which i do not have, but for humor, i would put a b16a haha

[JESTER]

I think this was actually serious. But, what the heck. I want an S14 with a RB26DET and AWD. Has been done, but I havent ever seen it.

I actually have a 2nd gen Rex sitting in my friends back yard. He and like three other friends of mine are into the 7's. But none of them have had a single ReX for longer than a year and a half. Either wrecked or blown motor. Heck, one friend has three of them and only one that runs. And it doesnt run much, with the 400 small block.

I did the research and found them to be unreliable. There are a bunch that will disagree with me, but that is my opinion.

[kansaidrift]

Actually i've seen a supra motor in an s14 chassis before. Top secret did it too one of there silvia's. However it was not the 2jz, it was actually the old 2.5litre inline six, twin turbo from a mk3. Apperently this motor had a better design and created more hp then the old 3litre. Anyhow, i'm suprised i havn't seen them sporting some rotary swapped silvia.

[JESTER]

Give them a few months. They do some screwy swaps.

[kansaidrift]

Ha, maybe i should just email top secret and tell them whats up. Be like, "hey, whats up guys, i wanna see a crazy s14 rotary swap in the next super street, what can you do for me." Somebody give me there website, i'll get right on that.

[JESTER]

Can you write in Japanese? LOL

That just may work. They are always trying to come up with stuff.

[Munki4ce]

I think im the other guy wanting to do the rotary swap. Ive looked into and I'm quite sure I can do it. There is some fabrication work thats gonna need to be done tho. I need a shop to myself for a month if im gonna do it I know of a s13 silvia with a 13b in it, also a hachi with a 20b that nearly took off!

[Top Speed Coupe]

I have seen a 13bt in a s13 hachi. That car moved fully tuned ona HALTEK running 32psi on high boost. I love Rotaries unfortunatly they have a heavy stock Chasis. As far as swaping into a s14 all you need to do it is:A) Change the front cover to a 85 GSL-SE front cover and fabricate a front mount bar n weld it to both sides of the engine bay.B) Use a Gen2 Cross Member and drill some holes and bolt it up use its own side mounts.

Eithier way you need to fab a custom transmission mount simple. and Get a Drive shaft made.

EMAIL me if you got qestions. GOOD LUCK

PS: The only Flame you should get is from your muffler behind your Wankel!!!

[martin]

I did a little measuring on the wekend since I had my FC on the hoist and my old KA motor/trans sitting on the shop floor.

- FC trans is about 2" longer from bell housing to gear shift. So depending on front to rear location you may need to enlarge the gear shift hole.- FC trans mount is within 1/2" of KA so that will be easy enough.- Will need to get a custom drive shaft made, but I'm sure you already knew that.- Cross member will be a biatch! FC cross member has a forward arc to accomidate the rear sump of the 13B, KA is opposite. The Datsun 510 guys flip the crossmember around, but then they have a steering box. You might be able to flip the cross member around, and get a RHD rack, and leng then the steering shaft? Or there just might be room for the sump behind the KA cross member but I doubt it as it's long (not deep though).- Wiring is always a biatch, and this will be no exception!

Have fun. If you need any more measurments let me know.

-Martin.

[kansaidrift]

Wow, this is some really great stuff. I really appreciate all the helpful ideas you've been giving me. By the way, martin, thanks for the measurements. Thats very helpful since i don't have a spare 13b laying around.

I guess when you take a step back and look it all over, it doesnt' seem as difficult as it will probably be. I think the difficulty lies in having the patience and know how to properly measure out what you need, then take it too a machine shop and have it all custom tailored.

Oh yeah, i forgot to mention people in my town are for the most part dumb a@@ hillbillies. I got nothing against them, but for the most part you take anything with less then 8 cylinders to them, and there gonna say things like (personal favorite) "oh, you like them high revving turbocharged jap traps." No bullsh*t, i actually got this one two days ago, like its an acusation.

Well anyhow, thanks agian everyone, i havn't posted here in awhile but i'm still checking it, and i'm still saving all of the great ideas you've been giving me. Thanks.

[Onizuka]

Since we are all getting original here, shoot, i wanna put a 2jz in a 240, or EJ20, lots of money, somthing of which i do not have, but for humor, i would put a b16a haha

A 2jz in a 240 isnt that origional. RollHard perfomance used to offer that swap for about 6500-7000 bucks. They might still do it if your interested http://www.rollhard.com