Hey guys. I don't own a 240sx but I met a guy at school today who owns an SR20DET powered 240sx.
Anyways, he checked out my stereo system and I checked out his motor swap. I couldn't help but noticed the huge powerslot rotors he had in the front. He says they're 13" Powerstop rotors for a '98 Ford Cobra. He uses the 300ZX's alum calipers and Hawk Brake Pads. I just drove it around the parking lot, aside from the excellent handling, the braking power was great. I did a 35mph-dead stop and it literally felt like I was going to fly out of the windshield. Anyone else did this swap?
13" front rotor/300zx caliper upgrade
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looksLikeA240
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The Cobra rotors are 13" and the 300ZX are 11.5" I believe, the same rotor diameter as my Q45. They're the same thickness.
They brakes didn't lock up on me, it's just the braking power was really incredible. The dude (Dave) told me that he regularly autocrosses his car, evident by the 18" wheels, Firestone SZ50 tires and coilover suspension. The brake are a bit much, but I'd bet they'd be killer on a road course. Jumping into a well-tuned 240sx made me realize how much I miss driver small, sport coupes with a manual transmission...
They brakes didn't lock up on me, it's just the braking power was really incredible. The dude (Dave) told me that he regularly autocrosses his car, evident by the 18" wheels, Firestone SZ50 tires and coilover suspension. The brake are a bit much, but I'd bet they'd be killer on a road course. Jumping into a well-tuned 240sx made me realize how much I miss driver small, sport coupes with a manual transmission...
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looksLikeA240
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Lost_To_A_K-Car wrote:looksLikeA240 blathered incoherently..."]o so your a reply nazi?
I'm not even sure what that means. In English?
bigger brakes do make the car stop faster. thing stops mega fast with the upgrade. More pressure on more surface area.
Wrong. You fail freshman physics.
K-car man, I love that "you fail freshman physics" ****ing great...
I do have one question:is there such a thing as "mega fast"...
oh well....correct me if I am wrong here, but larger diamter rotors major benifit is from the increased surface area, and therefore cooling/heat absorbing ability of the rotor, where as larger calipers provide more uniform calmping force(and sometimes more overall), thusly helping the car stop faster, but only if the car's tires itself can handle the newfound clamping force...?
like I said, I may be wrong....more than likely am.
I was only asking to see if anyone's had these and how many days of autocrossing this setup can take? Dave told me the brakes are great for autocrossing and even a whole day's worth of track abuse can't get them to fade.
Seriously, if I were to buy a 240sx, it'll only be for autox. 13" brakes for a daily driver is waayyyy to much braking power.
Seriously, if I were to buy a 240sx, it'll only be for autox. 13" brakes for a daily driver is waayyyy to much braking power.
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looksLikeA240
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failed physics huh?
You got be kidding me.
So in by your theory, I could take the brakes on my s13 and swap them onto a 300zx and it would stop the same. No ****ing way!the 300zx calipers use a 4 piston caliper that aplply way more pressure onto a larger surface area that make the car stop much much much faster. F=MA chode. If the acceleration of a 300zx and a s13 are the same, but the Mass if different, which they are. Then you need the bigger brakes on the 300zx cause its greater mass makes for a larger force at any given speed. If your right then i might as well take the brakes off my huffy and put them on my 240 cause they are sooo muich cheaper. You could try and replace a stock s13 pad and rotor with any brand, and it still wouldnt stop as well as s13 with a stock 300zx brake up grade. Just find someone with the upgrade and go for a ride, its an amazing difference
You got be kidding me.
So in by your theory, I could take the brakes on my s13 and swap them onto a 300zx and it would stop the same. No ****ing way!the 300zx calipers use a 4 piston caliper that aplply way more pressure onto a larger surface area that make the car stop much much much faster. F=MA chode. If the acceleration of a 300zx and a s13 are the same, but the Mass if different, which they are. Then you need the bigger brakes on the 300zx cause its greater mass makes for a larger force at any given speed. If your right then i might as well take the brakes off my huffy and put them on my 240 cause they are sooo muich cheaper. You could try and replace a stock s13 pad and rotor with any brand, and it still wouldnt stop as well as s13 with a stock 300zx brake up grade. Just find someone with the upgrade and go for a ride, its an amazing difference
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float_6969
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Ok, so here's how it works (I hope, otherwise I'm a dumbass:) ) Number one reason for the break upgrade is to reduce/eliminate brake fade. I have had 3 240's and I could lock all of them up, AFTER about 30mph-40mph. My current (and hopefully final) 240 has ABS and it stops in a much shorter distance than my other two. The only way that I could conceive the brake upgrade stopping your car in a shorter distance would be from higher speeds. The larger surface area and greater pressure exerted on the rotor would allow for the tire to reach the "lock up" point at a higher speed than the stock calipers and rotors. But remember, it takes farther to stop on locked up tires than right before. (hence the pourpose of ABS) BUT, I could be wrong.....
have you ever seen the data on oversized braking systems?
most of the time braking performance is helped by ONE FOOT. ONE! the major difference, as stated by car and driver(after an upgrade to a c4), its the ability of the car to stop repeatedly at maximal stopping capacity without fading/overheating.
and if its "and amazing difference" its probably because the wheels and tires were upgraded, thusly allowing more braking force to be applied before a lock up.
-chet
most of the time braking performance is helped by ONE FOOT. ONE! the major difference, as stated by car and driver(after an upgrade to a c4), its the ability of the car to stop repeatedly at maximal stopping capacity without fading/overheating.
and if its "and amazing difference" its probably because the wheels and tires were upgraded, thusly allowing more braking force to be applied before a lock up.
-chet
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looksLikeA240
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Yo thanks for reminding me about the kinetic energy from the heat. Since the coefficient of friction between any two kinds of surfaces remains constant (kevlar on metal) no matter how much force is applied on these surface areas, the friction between them is still the same, yet with more heat being diplaced and a larger surface area on both (pads and rotors), creating friction and displacing heat at the same time. The car will stop faster, let it be 1 of 10 feet. The car brakes more responsive and does in fact come to a stop in a shorter distance whether its not a large amount to you or not, it does (At higher speeds). The displacing of heat through vented or cross drilled rotors suggest this concept. So basically your still a **** for being an *** on your first reply to a simple post by Sopdadope and a simple response by myself. Your such a lame **** that I thought maybe; is this your work http://maddox.xmission.com/irule.html
I gotta wonder, do people ever get tired of being wrong?
anyways, I highly suggest everyone goto E-Bay and buy a book called "Braking systems" or "racing brake systems", its goes through step by step the eveolution of brakes, from old cabble actuated pads on wheels, to the F_1 braking systems...
and it tells you the major gain with larger/better amterial brakes is the resistance to fade....
-chet
anyways, I highly suggest everyone goto E-Bay and buy a book called "Braking systems" or "racing brake systems", its goes through step by step the eveolution of brakes, from old cabble actuated pads on wheels, to the F_1 braking systems...
and it tells you the major gain with larger/better amterial brakes is the resistance to fade....
-chet
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looksLikeA240
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Ok how do you figure the coefficient of friction isn't a consistant figure? (in this case kevlra or what ever material the pad is made of on metal)
And since we are talking about drivablity. No person drives a car from a 60mph to 0 stop and then puts it back in the garage. A normal drive either track or street consist of more than one time of braking.
So, the mass of any vehicle requires energy to accelerate or decelerate. Reducing the vehicle mass improves acceleration, and requires less energy to be dissipated during deceleration.
And, at the speeds that stopping distance is generally measured from (60 to 70mph), the test is primarily testing the tire's grip on the pavement. As delivered from the manufacturer, nearly all vehicles are able to engage the ABS or lock the wheels at these speeds. Therefore, an increase in braking power will do nothing to stop the vehicle in a shorter distance. The Brakes show their greatest advantages when braking from higher speeds, or when tasked with repeated heavy braking. The increased braking torque provides for maximum deceleration at speed, and the ability to absorb and quickly dissipate the intense heat generated during repeated braking insures that the braking system will perform at the same high level each time.
And since we are talking about drivablity. No person drives a car from a 60mph to 0 stop and then puts it back in the garage. A normal drive either track or street consist of more than one time of braking.
So, the mass of any vehicle requires energy to accelerate or decelerate. Reducing the vehicle mass improves acceleration, and requires less energy to be dissipated during deceleration.
And, at the speeds that stopping distance is generally measured from (60 to 70mph), the test is primarily testing the tire's grip on the pavement. As delivered from the manufacturer, nearly all vehicles are able to engage the ABS or lock the wheels at these speeds. Therefore, an increase in braking power will do nothing to stop the vehicle in a shorter distance. The Brakes show their greatest advantages when braking from higher speeds, or when tasked with repeated heavy braking. The increased braking torque provides for maximum deceleration at speed, and the ability to absorb and quickly dissipate the intense heat generated during repeated braking insures that the braking system will perform at the same high level each time.
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float_6969
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You guys are hilarious. I'm new here. Do all threads turn into flamewars?
Anyway, Lost is correct. If you can lock up your breaks, then you don't NEED more stopping power. As stated, larger breaks will combat fade and look better on larger wheels IMHO.
Before it gets asked, steel braided brake lines don't make you stop faster either. They help with modulation.
Anyway, Lost is correct. If you can lock up your breaks, then you don't NEED more stopping power. As stated, larger breaks will combat fade and look better on larger wheels IMHO.
Before it gets asked, steel braided brake lines don't make you stop faster either. They help with modulation.
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looksLikeA240
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float_6969
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looksLikeA240
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ah but the 4 piston calipers provide better response, becuase they apply more force, with the same amount of pedal pressure given on the stock 240 brakes. Brake force is determined by the total surface area of the piston x line pressure x number of pistons. The larger the surface area, the greater braking force at the same line pressure. Which is why they lock up much quicker. But like dude said. You can achieve this with one big piston, but if you have a 3 cm x 5 cm brake pad, its alot easier to cover the surface area with more pistons than using one big piston that would require the whole assemble to support its diameter.
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looksLikeA240
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looksLikeA240
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Huh? I'm just recognizing some of the intelligent people on the forum--its good to find witty humor like his, I hardly EVER see it...I'm just commending him on a job well done--he makes every post funny but informative. True he's definitely ruthless in his replies, but you gotta understand he does that to everyone.
So all in all...the ZX brakes will make me stop faster...right?
But really...I don't know if this is a good example or not, because I don't know how stock for stock they compare....but on the review of the ultimate street car challenge the Supra with upgraded brakes only stopped 1 foot shorter than the stock skyline brakes...Like I said stock I don't know how they compare, but the big brakes on the Supra made no difference....1 foot could be because of the driver...
But really...I don't know if this is a good example or not, because I don't know how stock for stock they compare....but on the review of the ultimate street car challenge the Supra with upgraded brakes only stopped 1 foot shorter than the stock skyline brakes...Like I said stock I don't know how they compare, but the big brakes on the Supra made no difference....1 foot could be because of the driver...